DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[quadriverfalls]

That is awesome John! Keep it up!

Take care,

Derek

Thanks big D.... to quit smoking AND lose 45 pounds at the same time is quite the accomplishment (if I do say so myself). I've still got a ways to go on both the weight AND the cigs. I still find myself craving them during stress especially. I even still reach for them from time to time. But, like my sig says from another forum, I've got to hold out just a little longer. I'll deal with the rest when I get there. Or something profound like that.

 

[droht]

I'll ask Danny Richie. He'll know what to do.

Seriously, though - any company selling a speaker at the level of the LS9s could go out of business. It happens all the time in the high-end audio world. Then I'd be in the same boat I would be with AV123 except I would've spent a lot more to get there. I have to think that with a part number and google, I can find a replacement.

When it comes to the LS series, I was serious about the "ask Danny" solution. For the other speakers (I have two pairs of ELT525Ts), well... I got a good deal, I'll take my chances.

Although I am out of all av123 gear (except for a ulw-10 sub) I tend to agree with geek on this. The ID model provides benefits to us as consumers; it also has some downside. I would not expect a smallish ID company to do what Infinity does in regard to replacement parts. I would also expect that most any speakers could be re-tooled (aka upgraded) if necessary or desired. The Skiing Ninja is out there, and Danny is certainly willing to help, as are any number of DIY types who give pretty freely of their time and expertise. May not be as easy or cheap as a straight replacement driver, but not the end of the world either.

 

[MinusTheBear]

I would not expect a smallish ID company to do what Infinity does in regard to replacement parts..

Just a few examples of some smallish ID companies. Aperion Audio offers a 10 year warranty on their products. They would have to keep a decent amount of replacement parts on hand for all their products at all times. Axiom audio uses the exact same drivers and tweeters on all their speakers. This makes replacement parts a non-issue. I don't buy the ID company argument. Examples of good business practices and a well thought out business model in the ID world. They are a company like any other (large or small) and should be held to the same standards.

 

[mhawker]

Well, I don't know about my posts carrying any weight.... but, I'm PERSONALLY down nearly 45 pounds now since I've gotten out of the hospital. Damn.... this place needs more smiley's.

Good job, John.

 

[droht]

Just a few examples of some smallish ID companies. Aperion Audio offers a 10 year warranty on their products. They would have to keep a decent amount of replacement parts on hand for all their products at all times. Axiom audio uses the exact same drivers and tweeters on all their speakers. This makes replacement parts a non-issue. I don't buy the ID company argument. Examples of good business practices and a well thought out business model in the ID world. They are a company like any other (large or small) and should be held to the same standards.

I don't generally disagree with this, but I do assume that I have more risk with an ID company, or any smaller company for that matter. With many of these companies if one key guy gets tired of the rat race or gets sick or whatever they could easily go under and leave any customers high and dry relative to warranty or replacement parts. I'm not complaining about that; it's part of the equation I consider when making a purchase.

I'm not giving av123 a free pass on this. There is clearly the typical spin being applied with the "I always take care of my customers" mantra. Yeah right. If he means "take care of" the same way John Gotti used to.

 

[Jed M]

Jed, I'm sorry that happened to you. I REALLY am. Just as I feel absolutely terrible for all that's happened with regard to the raffles (most especially the raffles), late gear or vaporware, un-refunded monies. Stuff that's documented and out for all to see, well it's just awful. And, as an eternal optomist, I suppose that somewhere down deep inside I continue to hope that he will make good on all of what's gone bad. I would feel that way if it were MLS or you Chu. It makes no difference.

John, I appreciate your sentiment, I really do, but there is honestly no need for you to feel sorry for me. My disappointment is more over what Mark represents. The money I "lost" isn't the end of the world, but of course it pisses me off to be taken advantage of. I am just sick of his lies. Do I wish it could have ended any other way than this? Of course, but I didn't dictate the terms. With the exception of my postings on Mark I am actually pretty good natured, but it is what it is. I need to step away from this topic for awhile.

BTW, Congratulations on the weight loss! You should make a diet cookbook. And congrats on still staying smoke free (sorry if I made you want to light up ) I have been smoke free for 8 years now and I know how hard it is, but losing weight and quitting smoking at the same time? Color me impressed. Keep it up, your kids want you around for a long time.

 

[Jed M]

Just to weigh in on the spare parts subject, considering everything else, in the grand scheme of things the parts doesn't really bother me either. I am mostly Ref and LS so I am hoping if I ever need to I can source them from somebody else, but I guess I will cross that bridge when I get there. My personal feelings are that I didn't want to ever deal with them again so its no loss for me. Do I think it will be a problem for others? I would imagine those with old Bigfoots may feel differently. Considering one of my friends has one, yeah I would say that part worries me. He doesn't hold a vendetta against them the way I do so he is sane enough to want to fix his speakers if they break. I think its a mixed bag and disappointing, but not shocking or surprising in the least. I guess when I read it my first thought was considering what else has gone down there I would be shocked if they are around to cover anyones product.

 

[MinusTheBear]

I don't generally disagree with this, but I do assume that I have more risk with an ID company, or any smaller company for that matter. With many of these companies if one key guy gets tired of the rat race or gets sick or whatever they could easily go under and leave any customers high and dry relative to warranty or replacement parts. I'm not complaining about that; it's part of the equation I consider when making a purchase.

I'm not giving av123 a free pass on this. There is clearly the typical spin being applied with the "I always take care of my customers" mantra. Yeah right. If he means "take care of" the same way John Gotti used to.

Using the example of Aperion Audio, I can't think of any other company (b&m) or ID, that offers the least amount of "risk" with their product. 10 year warranty/trial upgrade period, transferrable warranty, free return shipping within 30 days.

This is an extreme example but I do not associate more risk with an ID company. Aperion is proof that small ID companies in this industry can be profitable and still offer cutting edge policies to their customers.

 

[droht]

Using the example of Aperion Audio, I can't think of any other company (b&m) or ID, that offers the least amount of "risk" with their product. 10 year warranty/trial upgrade period, transferrable warranty, free return shipping within 30 days.

This is an extreme example but I do not associate more risk with an ID company. Aperion is proof that small ID companies in this industry can be profitable and still offer cutting edge policies to their customers.

Yes, what they offer is great and possibly unmatched. But who owns them? One guy and his family? I know little about them, so I may be off base there. Any number of things can derail a small family-owned business. They are much less insulated than a larger company. To me that = risk. I don't mind that risk, but I don't pretend it doesn't exist either.

 

[woofersus]

IMHO, the spare parts issue is a pretty small one compared to everything else. The bottom line is that for "some reason" AV123's suppliers tend to want up-front money for orders at this point, and that makes it tough to order in spare parts that aren't going to be pre-sold. (most come from padding parts orders for stuff in production) I'm sure that if they are able, they'll provide spare parts, and if they can't do it they won't. I won't be doing any more business with AV123, but that is definitely not the primary reason.

To give the above owners some peace of mind, the drivers in the LS series are used by Danny in other designs and were used by him before AV123 started, so regardless of what happens to AV123 those owners should be able to get spare parts. The same goes for the Peerless tweeters used for the X-encore stuff and the X-staticks. I believe Danny sources those independently and gets nothing through AV123. Also, the drivers in Onix speakers should remain available for some time. AV123 is who you should contact if the speakers were bought from them, (they are solely responsible for warranties on items they sold while they were the distributor) but if all else fails, Hugh will probably be able to help get parts from Pu. AFAIK, the only speakers that will have parts supply issues will be those designs owned by AV123 with drivers custom built for those designs. That means discontinued Rocket models and Strata Mini's mostly.

 

[Chu Gai]

"Some reason" Like anyone hasn't figured that one out yet. I've made an inquiry into another ID company - TheAudioInsider. I'll post what I get back as to what their warranty and parts replacement story is. The problem with the Shifty Replacement Philosophy is that AV451 has been such a prominent player over the years (now just a person looking to be traded to free up salary cap) and is perceived by many as somewhat defining the ID model. Because of their gross ineptitude, criminal behavior, and outright disdain for their customers, they stain every other ID company that is trying to do the right thing and really bring some value and competitive advantage to the consumer. They have stained and continue to stain everyone that's out there and whenever you hear Humbly Bumbly mention another company like SVS, Axiom, Epik, etc. it does not enhance the perception of the ID model.

Anyways, when I hear something, I'll post the details.

 

[T2T]

While we're on the topic of Mark "making things right"; I seem to recall that he made a lot of promises to people who had either 1) Put deposits down, or 2) Paid for Brucer (a previous member) to create customized rosewood stand and furniture for their gear. Brucer even had his own section of the forum where some of his work could be viewed and people could transact with him on the forum. Then ... Poof!!, Brucer went into hiding, stopped answering his phone, closed his shop, etc. - all without delivering goods to many who had pre-paid. The only person who seemed to get a completed product was Sevenfeet, who had Brucer custom make his kitchen cabinets and install them for a completed job.

I wonder if Mark "made good" to those customers who he made promises too? Or, was this just another one of those things that was swept under the rug and forgotten about over time after the section for Brucer was removed from the VA321 forum?

 

[Stereodude]

I still laugh at the irony in the whole Brucer / MLS thing. Basically Mark and Brucer are basically two peas from the same rotten pod. The plot is quite similar between them. The best part was that Mark was very critical of Brucer and his unwillingness to face the music or make any of it right, but the shoe is on the other foot now when it's his behind in the fire.

 

[Chu Gai]

I still laugh at the irony in the whole Brucer / MLS thing. Basically Mark and Brucer are basically two peas from the same rotten pod. The plot is quite similar between them. The best part was that Mark was very critical of Brucer and his unwillingness to face the music or make any of it right, but the shoe is on the other foot now when it's his behind in the fire.

Yeah, that was a good one. I seem to recall Shifty also saying something about having Brucer's operation moved to Colombia to help out with the things that needed to be made. I tried to find out where he was and could be contacted (Texas I think it was) but never got anywhere.

Now, for a heartfelt question. Will Mark pay for the medical procedure that he undertook?

 

[fanuminski]

I still laugh at the irony in the whole Brucer / MLS thing. Basically Mark and Brucer are basically two peas from the same rotten pod. The plot is quite similar between them. The best part was that Mark was very critical of Brucer and his unwillingness to face the music or make any of it right, but the shoe is on the other foot now when it's his behind in the fire.

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/agence-uk-675476f154633e25b50cc46345dffd54.html

 

[quadriverfalls]

Well, at least her flowers will be prettier next year once Chili Poo decomposes.

 

[Chu Gai]

This is what I got back from The Audio Insider with respect to their speakers and drivers.

• Replacement drivers for all Swan speakers ever made are either in stock, available from Swan via TAI, or available from 3rd party driver resellers.
• Replacement drivers for all Divas are available and that includes the Divas that were sold by Humbly Bumbly.
• Original M200's electronics cannot be serviced. If a failed early M200 is sent back, a $99 (couldn't make it an even $100 ) is given towards the purchase of an MKII or MKIII.
• If any newer self-powered speaker fails, it's replaced under warranty including outbound freight.
• Acculine is discontinued but all drivers are in inventory. (Note from me: I doubt it's in deep storage either!)
• Dana Vifa drivers are in stock and could be there for 10 years or more depending upon the longevity of their suppliers.

I guess this is what happens when you're not a d!ck or haven't bent your suppliers over.

 

[cschang]

FWIW...my understanding is that the drivers in the Rockets are off the shelf. The Vifa tweeter should be easily found. The mids/woofers might be more difficult. For either, I bet Danny could help find a source.

 

[quadriverfalls]

FWIW...my understanding is that the drivers in the Rockets are off the shelf. The Vifa tweeter should be easily found. The mids/woofers might be more difficult. For either, I bet Danny could help find a source.

Aren't the Rockets using aluminum cone midrange and midbass drivers? There are several manufacturers that make them. HiVi is one that comes to mind. And as long as the electrical properties are the same (or very similar) wouldn't they work as well? Then again, there is stuff like flanges and screw holes needing to be lined up I suppose. But I would think that a flange would be fairly standard wouldn't it?

Obviously, I know nothing about drivers and how they are speced and interact within the enclosure with the corssover, So I may be all washed up in my supposition. Hell.... being all washed up is the norm for me anyway these days. So I should be used to it no?

 

[Chu Gai]

FWIW...my understanding is that the drivers in the Rockets are off the shelf. The Vifa tweeter should be easily found. The mids/woofers might be more difficult. For either, I bet Danny could help find a source.

Maybe he could but isn't it something that people are relying on others that have been victims of AV451's bend over backwards policy to remedy AV451's mess?