do i need a amp? when my reciever has almost as many watts?

[TLS Guy]

I have not read the specs on your receiver. But if it's not 4 ohm stable then yes you can do damage to your receiver. Most times a receiver will over heat and go into protection mode before something happens.

I don't know if it will damage it or not, however it will stress the unit and likely result in premature failure. Since the amp can not increase the current to a four ohm load the power available will be halved.

Basically an amp that is not stable into a four ohm load is JUNK. It is time to call a spade a spade. The receiver manufacturers have been getting by with this for far too long.

 

[Emusica]

I don't know if it will damage it or not, however it will stress the unit and likely result in premature failure. Since the amp can not increase the current to a four ohm load the power available will be halved.

Basically an amp that is not stable into a four ohm load is JUNK. It is time to call a spade a spade. The receiver manufacturers have been getting by with this for far too long.

STR DA7ES
120 watts x 7 @ 8ohms
not sure about 4ohms

It has a 4/8ohm switch on the back. Not really sure how that works, guess I need to read the manual. This was supposed to be Sony's "flagship" receiver back in the day (2002-03) I actually had to send it off for repair because the the DTS 96/24 was not working properly. Other than that I haven't had any problems. I'll probably be pushing my luck though trying to push the
M80's. I'll read up on the 4 ohm selector and see what it says.

 

[TLS Guy]

STR DA7ES
120 watts x 7 @ 8ohms
not sure about 4ohms

It has a 4/8ohm switch on the back. Not really sure how that works, guess I need to read the manual. This was supposed to be Sony's "flagship" receiver back in the day (2002-03) I actually had to send it off for repair because the the DTS 96/24 was not working properly. Other than that I haven't had any problems. I'll probably be pushing my luck though trying to push the
M80's. I'll read up on the 4 ohm selector and see what it says.

The four ohm switch, will limit the current output and therefore the available power to the four ohm speakers, so your output stages are not stressed. If you are not going tp play it loud, this might be a satisfactory solution. You can always add an amp that is not limited in handling four ohm loads.

 

[croseiv]

Basically an amp that is not stable into a four ohm load is JUNK. It is time to call a spade a spade. The receiver manufacturers have been getting by with this for far too long.

One man's junk is another man's treasure. I'd say this is only the case if you are trying to run insensistive 4 ohm speakers. There are plenty of very good 8 ohm speakers out there that can be driven to ear bleeding levels buy that so called junk. If you do happen to have four ohm speakers, get a separate amp. Simple. It doesn't mean a receiver is junk at all.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It is interesting how so many just add negative thoughts and opinions of no value to somethin that is suppused to be a hobby, I offered my opinion which I qualified as not being an absolute truth and the attacks begin as always. I had a red flag because of another attacker and the way I talked to him, not for my views but either way thats a cheap shot to bring up and once again offers nothing useful.
I suppose the cool group here has most of the same views as those that like to mock and attack me but you guys go ahead and follow, I dont get in line.
I dont know why so many use so much energy just to be negative about how others view and go about this hobby but what a sad little life these folks must have, I am sorry life made you so bitter and that you find happiness stepping on everyone who you disagree with's toes.
I dont tell anyone to buy anything, I tell it like I see it offering my opinions and experience and time after time somebody has to dump all over it like its a personal threat to them personally, I like Vinyl poof enter Joe Schmoe every single time slaming it, I like Class A amps, poof enter Seth with his insults and dismissal, I have heard cables that I liked for what they did to the sound, poof here comes 4 maybe 5 folks with nothing but negative and at times personal attacks, I like tube gear, heres another guy dumping on it so it just makes you wonder where is the enjoyment in all this? Are you all here to talk about gear in all its forms or just a narrow list of items you find acceptable?
Some like tubes, prefer Vinyl, appreciate some cables for what they do for them, some would rather own seperates over a reciever, others are certain power conditioners help...........some are frugal or of limited funds and others enjoy spending larger amounts to get gear that makes them happy and yet all of these piss somebody off, doesnt that strike anyone as a bit patheitc? I never said you must own seperates, must own vinyl, exotic cables, tube gear, projectors, be in a dedictated room or spend a fortune to enjoy this hobby so get a life and try be add something of value. When sharing experiences in sound and video we share our thoughts and offer help and ideas when we have some, atleast thats what I attempt to do.
So there you have it, bring on the rants, insults, objections and snide remarks from the usual suspects because you have become so predictable I expect nothing less.

I would never make any negative remarks about anyone. We can all respectfully disagree. No problemo. Like you said, it's just a hobby. Even if you spend $10,000 on cables, I would not have an issue with that. It's just a hobby. It's all fun to talk about.

 

[gus6464]

I would never make any negative remarks about anyone. We can all respectfully disagree. No problemo. Like you said, it's just a hobby. Even if you spend $10,000 on cables, I would not have an issue with that. It's just a hobby. It's all fun to talk about.

I wanna try $10k cables just for the hell of it. Wouldn't pay the $10k but maybe someone would be willing to lend me some

 

[TLS Guy]

One man's junk is another man's treasure. I'd say this is only the case if you are trying to run insensistive 4 ohm speakers. There are plenty of very good 8 ohm speakers out there that can be driven to ear bleeding levels buy that so called junk. If you do happen to have four ohm speakers, get a separate amp. Simple. It doesn't mean a receiver is junk at all.

There seems to be a myth here that 4 ohm speakers are by definition insensitive. That is not so. In the days when speakers had big wide fronts have a speaker with 8 ohms impedance across the board was not an issue. However to properly voice and balance a narrow fronted speaker it is necessary to progressively drop the impedance below 400 Hz, the exact region depending on the size of the of the drivers and width of the front baffle.

I have now seen evidence that speaker manufacturers are making some really nasty design compromises to avoid embarrassing those those receivers.

Playing loud is not the issue. The bottom line is that penny pinching the output stages so they can not progressively increase current as impedance drops, is having a negative impact on the whole lines of affordable speakers.
The whole thing is perverse, because there is just no need for it.

This factor should be prominent in the decision to purchase and out weigh gimmicks like auto set up.

 

[croseiv]

There seems to be a myth here that 4 ohm speakers are by definition insensitive. That is not so.
set up.

Not just 4 ohm, but insensitive in general, and I think you know what I mean. However, 4 ohm speakers that are more efficient (90 dB/w/m or higher) can be driven by receivers that are rated for 8 ohm loads as long as they are played within reasonable limits. The problem with the average receiver is that they just don't have the current reserves necessary for properly driving 4 ohm speakers (especially inefficient ones).

 

[audioman00]

The longer you stay on this forum, the higher the risk you will have of buying a separate amp.

I mean how can you stand it when all your friends have a separate amp and you don't?

LMOA! that is precisely why I bought mine, my friend bought a AM-9080 Sherwood 5ch amp... then i sold my velodyne, and had a rotel sitting at home within a week!... damn him!, or wait! thank god! now my soundstage is broader and the speakers are a lot happier without the "getting red under the collar" issues of the receiver.. I am mostly music, not movies, hence why I keep going in the separates direction.. but HT does benefit some too, I was using a higher end yamaha receiver, and you CAN tell an overall difference. But, not big enough for most people to notice.

 

[Emusica]

4ohm setting with 8ohm speakers

My receiver has the 4/8ohm selector and as per the instructions, I can run it in the 4ohm position for all the speakers. My question is, if I have 2 front speakers at 4ohms and the rest (center, surrounds) at 8ohms, will this harm my 8ohm speakers?

This is what the manual says:
"Alternatively, you may connect speakers with a nominal impedances between 4 and 8 ohms to any or all of the speaker terminals. However, be sure to set the IMPEDANCE SELECTOR to "4ohms" if you connect even one speaker with a nominal impedance between 4 and 8 ohms."

I figured I would ask the experts also

 

[anamorphic96]

My receiver has the 4/8ohm selector and as per the instructions, I can run it in the 4ohm position for all the speakers. My question is, if I have 2 front speakers at 4ohms and the rest (center, surrounds) at 8ohms, will this harm my 8ohm speakers?

This is what the manual says:
"Alternatively, you may connect speakers with a nominal impedances between 4 and 8 ohms to any or all of the speaker terminals. However, be sure to set the IMPEDANCE SELECTOR to "4ohms" if you connect even one speaker with a nominal impedance between 4 and 8 ohms."

I figured I would ask the experts also

But remember as TLS Guy stated above. Your power output will be cut in half or pretty close to it. So if your receiver is rated for 100 watts into 8 ohms it is now only putting out 50 to 60 watts into 4 ohms.

Good amplifiers that are rated into 4 ohm loads should ideally double their power. Or come pretty darn close to it.

 

[Emusica]

But remember as TLS Guy stated above. Your power output will be cut in half or pretty close to it. So if your receiver is rated for 100 watts into 8 ohms it is now only putting out 50 to 60 watts into 4 ohms.

Good amplifiers that are rated into 4 ohm loads should ideally double their power. Or come pretty darn close to it.

So I just need to purchase an amp. My manual states that I get 120 watts @8 ohms and 100 @4 ohms. I'm actually not getting the 100 watts though, Im sure. It damn sure isn't doubling the power.

 

[anamorphic96]

So I just need to purchase an amp. My manual states that I get 120 watts @8 ohms and 100 @4 ohms. I'm actually not getting the 100 watts though, Im sure. It damn sure isn't doubling the power.

Something like the Behringer A500 for 200 dollars will work well with the M80's you have your eye on.

However the M60's will work just fine on your receiver with no need for an external amp.

 

[mtrycrafts]

My receiver has the 4/8ohm selector ...

Leave it on the 8 Ohm selector setting.

 

[PENG]

But remember as TLS Guy stated above. Your power output will be cut in half or pretty close to it. So if your receiver is rated for 100 watts into 8 ohms it is now only putting out 50 to 60 watts into 4 ohms.

Please do not be so sure unless you know it for sure. His 7ES may not cut the power in half even when the switch is set to the 4 ohm position. In electrical theory, Power=(V^2XcosΘ)/Z, where Z is the impedance and Θ is the phase angle between the voltage and current phasor (AKA vector). So it depends how much the 4 ohm position limits the voltage in order to limit the current.

Basically if the amp can only deliver into 4 ohms the same current it does into 8 ohms then yes the power will be cut to half, but according to the specifications the 7ES can do better than that and it's rated power into 4 ohms drops by a little less than 20%.

As mtrycrafts said, leave the switch in the 8 ohm position but use common sense with the volume control, e.g. keep it below -20, or set the switch to the 4 ohm position, and the 7ES will last for a long time (Don't forget the 7ES weighs 46 lbs not because Sony put lead plate in it, it was in fact their flagship at one time).

Otherwise add an external 300WX2 amp and be worry free.

 

[PENG]

My question is, if I have 2 front speakers at 4ohms and the rest (center, surrounds) at 8ohms, will this harm my 8ohm speakers?

Yes it will if you turn the volume control high enough. It won't if you keep it at volume well below the amp's clipping point. Basically, if the music sounds good all the time, your speakers are safe. If the music begins to sound strained, turn it down until it sounds great again.

The bottom line is, the 7ES can do the job for you as long as you are willing to accept the limitations and the inability to get the best out of the M80. That is not the same as saying that your amp will blow and/or your M80s will be damaged regardless. Obviously adding an amp remains the best option.

 

[PENG]

Wouldn't using a receiver such as the yamaha 863 in pure-direct mode as a pre-pro act like a pre-pro? i mention the yam863 because it is so up to date(hdmi 1.3, latest codecs,hd radio,xm,siruis, dual sub-outs, 7.1 pre-outs, and so on). I figured the Emotiva UPA-7(better quality power supply, cooler running) at $649 plus the yam863 at $640 for a total of $1290 might be a better idea than the Onkyo 905 for $1500 with its suspect heat issues. Is my thinking that far off?

Yes it will act like a pre-pro but for the purist it is not the same as a separate pre-pro. If you can get the pair for $1,290 then it does seem like a better deal than the 905 option. That is as long as you don't need the following (I am sure there are others I missed) main features that the 905 has:

1. Ethernet port.
2. One additional HDMI input.
3. One of the best video chipset (Reon).

To me, the Reon chip is almost useless because I let my players do the upconversion and I have replaced almost all of my laser discs and VHS tapes with DVDs already. I do find the Ethernet port and the extra HDMI useful.

 

[wire]

It is interesting how so many just add negative thoughts and opinions of no value to somethin that is suppused to be a hobby, I offered my opinion which I qualified as not being an absolute truth and the attacks begin as always. I had a red flag because of another attacker and the way I talked to him, not for my views but either way thats a cheap shot to bring up and once again offers nothing useful.
I suppose the cool group here has most of the same views as those that like to mock and attack me but you guys go ahead and follow, I dont get in line.
I dont know why so many use so much energy just to be negative about how others view and go about this hobby but what a sad little life these folks must have, I am sorry life made you so bitter and that you find happiness stepping on everyone who you disagree with's toes.
I dont tell anyone to buy anything, I tell it like I see it offering my opinions and experience and time after time somebody has to dump all over it like its a personal threat to them personally, I like Vinyl poof enter Joe Schmoe every single time slaming it, I like Class A amps, poof enter Seth with his insults and dismissal, I have heard cables that I liked for what they did to the sound, poof here comes 4 maybe 5 folks with nothing but negative and at times personal attacks, I like tube gear, heres another guy dumping on it so it just makes you wonder where is the enjoyment in all this? Are you all here to talk about gear in all its forms or just a narrow list of items you find acceptable?
Some like tubes, prefer Vinyl, appreciate some cables for what they do for them, some would rather own seperates over a reciever, others are certain power conditioners help...........some are frugal or of limited funds and others enjoy spending larger amounts to get gear that makes them happy and yet all of these piss somebody off, doesnt that strike anyone as a bit patheitc? I never said you must own seperates, must own vinyl, exotic cables, tube gear, projectors, be in a dedictated room or spend a fortune to enjoy this hobby so get a life and try be add something of value. When sharing experiences in sound and video we share our thoughts and offer help and ideas when we have some, atleast thats what I attempt to do.
So there you have it, bring on the rants, insults, objections and snide remarks from the usual suspects because you have become so predictable I expect nothing less.

Dont worry about it , as long as you like your equiment and the sound it produces , who cares what they think .
I think it is a little pathetic , but its just what i think and there are 6.7 billion opinions out there on something , so it dosent really matter , what they think or what i think .
Keep on giving your opinions .

 

[anamorphic96]

I guess the amp section is a bit more robust than some. Which is good.

I have seen a some receivers lose half their power when using the impedance switch.

Sorry to make my post sound like an absolute.

 

[thedude65]

Yes it will act like a pre-pro but for the purist it is not the same as a separate pre-pro. If you can get the pair for $1,290 then it does seem like a better deal than the 905 option. That is as long as you don't need the following (I am sure there are others I missed) main features that the 905 has:

1. Ethernet port.
2. One additional HDMI input.
3. One of the best video chipset (Reon).

To me, the Reon chip is almost useless because I let my players do the upconversion and I have replaced almost all of my laser discs and VHS tapes with DVDs already. I do find the Ethernet port and the extra HDMI useful.

thanks for responding, Peng. i'm more interested in the better of the 2 options than being a purist. i would get a real pre-pro if there was an affordable up-to-date one on the market. i may just wait for one to come out and use my old Yam995 with its pre-outs for now, since i don't have a blu-ray player yet.what to do, what to do. thanks again and if you have any more thoughts, please let me know.