Dirac New Spatial Room Correction Software

[Trell]

I have a special cattle prod to keep it in line.

Or hand out fishing rods for the bass?

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah, I even did my HT room per one of the Audio Engineering Society's Room Acoustic Formulas 1H: 1.57W: 1.87L

So if the Ceiling height is 14', then it's 14' H x 22' W x 26' L, which is the dimensions for my HT.

But according to other audio experts like the late Siegfried Linkwitz and Peter Aczel, many traditional rectangular rooms with carpets/area rugs, sofas, curtains, etc., will be just fine for rooms acoustics.

Yes, and buy and large Siegfried was against treating rooms and lauded reflection within limits. However he knew how to design decent speakers.

I think he would be having a royal fit right now, with the suggestion of thirty plus channels and speakers in a domestic situation, and add all that complex processing. It is gratuitous complexity. I'm sorry Gene and Matt, but that "pig" is not going to fly, and nor should it.

When I listened to some of those experts and profs, I found it hard to believe what I was hearing. I would love to have equal time with that crowd. That sort of impracticality needs some pushback.

 

[CreoleDC]

Comes softly to me.

it's all about the chocolatey mids. Crafted by fine German hands.

 

[mtrycrafts]

it's all about the chocolatey mids. Crafted by fine German hands.

What? Swiss chocolate is inferior?

 

[ryanosaur]

What? Swiss chocolate is inferior?

Even Germans don't do good chocolate.
The Belgians on the other hand!

 

[CreoleDC]

What? Swiss chocolate is inferior?

We don't talk about "inferior". here's a link I'm gonna post up see which one Dr. Toole would choose over the other. Swiss? or German chocolate.

 

[flak3]

An interesting and unique aspect of this technology is the fact it takes advantage of the capabilities of large floorstanders at low frequencies which is not the case when bass management is used for subwoofers.
The technology can make use of the energy from the main speakers in low frequencies as well when there is an overlap, rather than only depend on the subwoofers.
Also, at certain frequencies there will be more sources and this will offer more degrees of freedom to the algorithm so even a Stereo system with two subs will have four different sources of low frequencies.

 

[TLS Guy]

An interesting and unique aspect of this technology is the fact it takes advantage of the capabilities of large floorstanders at low frequencies which is not the case when bass management is used for subwoofers.
The technology can make use of the energy from the main speakers in low frequencies as well when there is an overlap, rather than only depend on the subwoofers.
Also, at certain frequencies there will be more sources and this will offer more degrees of freedom to the algorithm so even a Stereo system with two subs will have four different sources of low frequencies.

That is a plus, and the way my system is designed. I have maintained here that crossing to subs with generic receiver/pre/pro crossovers is actually bad engineering.

 

[VonMagnum]

I'm not sure how this is supposed to work in an Atmos type system. I've got 17 speakers and three rows of seats in my home theater and one of the biggest problems is attenuation over distance of the mains to the back row and louder levels of rear speakers near that row to get even levels in the front row where the MLP is located.

I keep three "Smart Settings" for this. I've got optimized levels for the front row, the second row and a compromise between the two. The only way to further improve things was to create mixed arrays of the rears in ss#2 so they could help with levels closer to the front without having to play them as loud.

So how could you get levels even in the back and front except to use speakers not intended for those sounds (e.g. Side surrounds) to play content meant for the
L/C/R mains with delay to reinforce the sound over distance like you would for a live concert? The problem, of course is your system is no longer fully discrete and I'm afraid most Atmos fans wouldn't like that one tiny bit given some of the derision I've gotten over using arrays (as if they're evil; they make the experience better IMO for more seats, but this "discrete" obsession doesn't jibe with expectations.

Of course, maybe they're not addressing that at all with this system, just nearby frequency response, but that's relatively easy to deal with using conventional room treatments above Schroeder....

 

[dlaloum]

This article reads like an advertisement. I am sceptical of the claim to make an EQ profile that will improve every seat. Also, shouldn't these things simply focus on the frequencies that are controlled by the room (Below the room transition frequency)?

And how is one room correction tech better than another? Audyssey, ARC, Dirac, etc. As long as they have enough filters to smooth out the frequency response for the main seat below the room transition frequency, what would be the difference from one to another?

It's not EQ - it's more like noise cancelling - yeah the overall package includes EQ, and time alignment, impulse optimisation...

But really what they are talking about here is more like what is achieved in Noise Cancelling headphones - Trinnov already do some very similar mathematical magic with their setup.... This brings that type of tech into the mainstream (ish) price bracket.

 

[depechefan]

I have a stupid question... If I wanted to use this cool tool with my Denon AVC-X8500HA,how would I go about that? What hardware would I need to implement in my system?

 

[dlaloum]

I have a stupid question... If I wanted to use this cool tool with my Denon AVC-X8500HA,how would I go about that? What hardware would I need to implement in my system?

Well - first it would have to be out in the marketplace... (which it isn't yet)

Then you would need to have sufficient DSP power in the AVR to run it, and Denon would have to choose to integrate it... both of which are unlikely...

Alternatively you could run it in a PC (assuming they also launch the PC version, as they have with Dirac Live) - but then you would be limited to material that the PC can decode - so no height channels, etc...

Fact is, if you want something akin to the 8500 with SRC, you will need to replace it with an A1H...

And realistically, that is what Denon is aiming for...

 

[dlaloum]

I'm not sure how this is supposed to work in an Atmos type system. I've got 17 speakers and three rows of seats in my home theater and one of the biggest problems is attenuation over distance of the mains to the back row and louder levels of rear speakers near that row to get even levels in the front row where the MLP is located.

I keep three "Smart Settings" for this. I've got optimized levels for the front row, the second row and a compromise between the two. The only way to further improve things was to create mixed arrays of the rears in ss#2 so they could help with levels closer to the front without having to play them as loud.

So how could you get levels even in the back and front except to use speakers not intended for those sounds (e.g. Side surrounds) to play content meant for the
L/C/R mains with delay to reinforce the sound over distance like you would for a live concert? The problem, of course is your system is no longer fully discrete and I'm afraid most Atmos fans wouldn't like that one tiny bit given some of the derision I've gotten over using arrays (as if they're evil; they make the experience better IMO for more seats, but this "discrete" obsession doesn't jibe with expectations.

Of course, maybe they're not addressing that at all with this system, just nearby frequency response, but that's relatively easy to deal with using conventional room treatments above Schroeder....

With 3 rows of seats, you are moving out of the domain of "Home" Theatre, and into the domain of pro theatre spaces...

And once you get into larger theatre spaces (beyond 2 rows) then arrays make perfect sense...

You will be grappling with issues that most of us don't have to worry about.

My solutions for a 3 to 4 seat couch, are not the same as for a three row theatre.

Having said that, I have been interested in array speakers for a while - I think they are a misunderstood and under-represented genre in the home.... but high quality arrays are seriously expensive... more speakers, more parts, more components, more amps, more $$$ - so there is a reason we don't see them a lot!

 

[VonMagnum]

Nah dirt cheap. MiniDSP or active mixer for summed arrayed channels (or just the pre-outs plus speaker outs for a straight cheap and dirty copy). Old AVRs, particularly Yamaha models had excellent amplifiers in them and 7.1 input modes to use them purely as amplifiers. It can be done on the cheap. Scatmos can be done with a couple of old PLII AVRs and give near discrete extra channel results.

 

[dlaloum]

Nah dirt cheap. MiniDSP or active mixer for summed arrayed channels (or just the pre-outs plus speaker outs for a straight cheap and dirty copy). Old AVRs, particularly Yamaha models had excellent amplifiers in them and 7.1 input modes to use them purely as amplifiers. It can be done on the cheap. Scatmos can be done with a couple of old PLII AVRs and give near discrete extra channel results.

When you say "array" do you mean "Line Array" speakers - as used for pro-audio?

 

[dlaloum]

Like this:

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/5/1227415/vxl_series_line_array_speakers_e.pdf

 

[dlaloum]

I would love to be able to get hold of a set of these:

Anthony Gallo Acoustics Reference 5LS Loudspeakers

Anthony Gallo Acoustics (AGA) will display and demoed its all-new Reference 5LS line source loudspeaker today.The speaker stands 78” tall, boasts an incredible 12 custom aluminum 4” woofers and

www.audioholics.com

 

[VonMagnum]

When you say "array" do you mean "Line Array" speakers - as used for pro-audio?

No, I mean when you send the same signal to more than one loudspeaker like in a traditional movie theater where all the surround speakers are either the same mono surround channel or each wall (left or right) is the same surround channel (Atmos has arrays for bed channels at the cinema, but they can also pass discrete objects). Using a summed signal from a mixer, you actually have two channels arrayed in one speaker (e.g. Main + Sides) but with a 3dB boost. Trinnov actually lets you array any channels together you want in non-Atmos modes like Auro-3D or plain 5.1 or 7.1.

 

[dlaloum]

No, I mean when you send the same signal to more than one loudspeaker like in a traditional movie theater where all the surround speakers are either the same mono surround channel or each wall (left or right) is the same surround channel (Atmos has arrays for bed channels at the cinema, but they can also pass discrete objects). Using a summed signal from a mixer, you actually have two channels arrayed in one speaker (e.g. Main + Sides) but with a 3dB boost. Trinnov actually lets you array any channels together you want in non-Atmos modes like Auro-3D or plain 5.1 or 7.1.

In your case - wouldn't you be better off using something like line array speakers, where they are less prone to level variation with distance?

That's why these kind of designs are used for stadiums, churches, etc...

Point Source, Line Arrays or Column Speakers: What’s Best for Your Church? –

(Thanks to Chris Pyron for his contributions to this story) When looking for a new PA for your church’s worship center, sanctuary or children’s space, ther

pro.harman.com

.

 

[VonMagnum]

In your case - wouldn't you be better off using something like line array speakers, where they are less prone to level variation with distance?

That's why these kind of designs are used for stadiums, churches, etc...

Maybe, but that would mean replacing 17 speakers I got relatively cheap used on eBay with rather expensive line arrays. The thing is my room is 12'x24' long, not 24'x240' long. I'm also usually the only one watching, so having it level for one row is usually fine. I created a 2nd row alignment smart setting and an in-between setting for all three rows in use (the 3rd row is really only one chair in the middle back since I have a half bath back there and in the middle only two seats because of an outboard fireplace on the right side and with a room that's only 12' wide, that doesn't leave a lot of space). So, it's really only 6 seats in three rows.

These photos are a little older, but you can get an idea (plus a layout diagram I made):