Denon or Onkyo or ???

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Not sure that this is the most reliable source, but here is a comparison. https://www.zkelectronics.com/compare/denon-avr-x3600h/uk/marantz-sr6014/uk/

@Timforhifi, I'm not worried about the amp section difference. I was just curious about the statement that the amps sections were identical and wondered if there was a slight tweak with respect to power, what else, if anything might have been different. In the end, I'm sure it is essentially the same.
Essentially that's the point, in the end the difference between 105wpc or 110wpc is negligible. Takes a doubling of power to change spl 3dB....easily demonstrated these days on dB based volume controls.
 
T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
I meant more what were the specific ratings provided by each manufacturer in their specs? I assumed you had compared already and could identify them as identical or perhaps slightly different (which could explain slight differences in wattage spec).
I'm far from an expert on this stuff (hence my question), but didn't see anything that would suggest a reason for the difference. Here are the specs from their respective manuals -- same except for rated output.
 

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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I'm far from an expert on this stuff (hence my question), but didn't see anything that would suggest a reason for the difference. Here are the specs from their respective manuals -- same except for rated output.
Not sure what you're transferring those files with but seem to be on same basis but that doesn't mean they're actually different, if one is more "conservative"
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Plus at 105 vs 110 wpc the difference in spl is .2dB which I'd bet you couldn't distinguish.
 
T

TechToys2

Junior Audioholic
Plus at 105 vs 110 wpc the difference in spl is .2dB which I'd bet you couldn't distinguish.
I'm certain that's true. More marketing? The files are just screen shots from the manuals online.
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Audioholic Chief
If you're into movies and home theatre I think Denon 3600, 3700, 4700 have Onkyo beat. The Audyssey system is more advanced to my ears and that makes a big difference with an ATMOS soundtrack.
 
S

Sachb

Audioholic
People actually have chosen Yamaha over Denon which perhaps suggest that Yamaha is better one between the Denon, Marantz, Onkyo.


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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
So what are denons? They are considered to be neutral, and marantz more of a warmish in nature.

I agree room and speakers have some impact on the sound, but in my case, it's the same room, same speaker, same cables except avr.

The moment I switched my Denon to the Yamaha, I noticed an improvement of sound, the yamaha definately sounded better in lower volumes, and more balanced, that too uncalibrated.

After calibration ofcourse it made the sound even better, so in total I would say it was 5x improvement over the Denon.

It made even my crappy subwoofer sing. Now I wasn't hearing just the boomy bass but also, well tuned subwoofer which put out some sweet low end bass notes as per the music that was being played.

But then again the Denon is X2300W which is one model lower to X36000H and that too 4 year old, but I'm still doubting whether X3600H would've sound any different than X2300W, since both are Denons and this a denon which is just 1 model above it.

I saw a post on facebook where the guy just recently bought the Denon X3700H and wanted an amp that could drive his moniter audio silver 300 better than X3700H, it's quite suprising that X3700H being a 2020 can't drive the MAs.

What I've noticed looking at the various post all over the internet is that, for Denon to sound good for music is that, an external amp is crucial part, without which they fail to sound good.

I've also heard the Denon + Taga harmony towers in the retail stores, they were too harsh and lacked the quality.
Same story with my Denon X2300W, elacs were too harsh and unrefined with Denon. This guy in the store was playing a concert DvD encoded in DTS hd format.

Switching to yamaha made a big diference in sound. I can actually hear some mid bass kickin out of the Elac speakers but wirh more accuracy.

Nothing on Denon worked for me, flat being the brightest, reference again being bright and thin, L/R bypass again being dull but did improve the bass but wasn't anywhere as good as yamaha's natural or flat setting.

Switching off audyssey made my speaker sound like an AM radio.

So, alltogether Denon isn't good for people who are a critical listener for music. Therefore I suggested OP to choose Yamaha over Denon.

But the OP feels more comfortable picking the Onkyo, well even the Onkyo will sound punchier than most Denon in the same price range. I have been hearing about it a lot. Onkyo is more punchier than Denon.

So, what in the hell does Denon do then besides sounding crap?

Even my 12 year old Sony htib sounded better than Denon X2300W.

Most pribably the Sony htib playes louder was because of the 3ohm setup making it easier for the slim reciever to sound louder and punchier.

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I sold my 7 Denon AVRs this year and replaced them with Yamaha.

I switched from the $7500 Denon AVP-A1HDCI to the Yamaha CX-A5100 AVP.

I replaced the $5500 Denon AVR-5308CI with the Yamaha RX-A3080.

It's not so much about money. If I felt that one brand sounded better ABSOLUTELY than the others, I would get that one brand that absolutely sounded better.

But IMO it's the WHOLE package (what kind of sound quality we can achieve, how easily we can accomplish that setup, reliability, compatibility, and functionality) that should determine what we buy.

For people who have much better SUCCESS with Yamaha in all the above factors, they should buy Yamaha because they can get better sound quality in their systems with the way they KNOW to set up.

For example, some people know and feel more comfortable using Yamaha's EQ (Auto or PEQ Manual). So they get better SQ. Or if they don't use EQ at all, if somehow they can achieve better SQ with their Yamaha's, then they should buy Yamaha.
In addition if their Yamaha's operate 100% cooler without the use of fans, if their Yamaha's are more reliable, compatible, and functional, they should buy Yamaha's.

But if they get exactly what they want from Denon, Marantz, Sony, Pioneer, or Onkyo, then they should get those AVRs.

Here is the thing. Our experiences will grow. And our preferences may change over time. I was a huge DM fan for like 20 years. Yamaha, Sony, Pioneer, and Onkyo never crossed my mind. But over time, my experience has grown and my preference has changed. And there is no guarantee that Yamaha is the End-All for me. Only time will tell. It's a journey of a thousand miles.

I think this can happen with everyone.
 
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S

Sachb

Audioholic
Some others who have had the same experience as I did.



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S

Sachb

Audioholic
Maybe you owned Demon X666H
Check my youtube videos, see those videos, I have made sound clips of the Denon X2300W. You'll notice something immediately. There's very little midbass, its a crispy sounding reciever with recessed mids.

But not to forget I have tried the L/R byoass and that has min highs which is the complete opposite of bright.

Either way, everything on it sounded mediocre. You might have to actually clean your ears. Most of the Denon fans out there might have been deafened by the overexaggerated highs thats why you can't notice any difference and their ears are trained to like thin sounding AVRs.

You can make a Denon sound either bright or completely dull, it will never have the robust or seamless sound of an Yamaha, as well as Onkyo and other recievers.

Did you know that as soon as someone purchases a denon reciever, his first post would be requesting of "what amp to get to power the speakers?"

Why is this so common among Denon recievers?

I'll tell you, its because Denon lacks the excitement, fun, engaging sound.
You might just get a high end htib from a Sony and be done with, and it'll still sound better than most Denon recievers.



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S

Sachb

Audioholic
Maybe you owned Demon X666H
You can defend that Denon as long as you want but in won't change the fact that it's an inferior product mostly built in China/Vietnam compared to Yamaha which is built in Malaysia.

You will notice, that Sony LEDs are quite expensive, why? Cause their newet models are made in Malaysia, and anything from Malaysia is far superior to one made in China, Vietnam.

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killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
I like the center ON TOP OF the AVR. Helps vibration.....
Not only that, but then he criticized Denon for burning out. How about letting your amp cool and breathe??

Sooner or later it all comes down crushing on you when you try to belittle a respected company and blame them for your own lack of knowledge.
 
S

Sachb

Audioholic
If you haven't heard the newer Aventage Yamaha along side with a comparable Denon then mostly your posts seems to be of no value.

I've heard the X4000 series in a well treated room in a retail outlet, which played some dts demo disc, and to me the Denon sounded very harsh.

Denon taga harmony, it was. The guy played a Dts Demo disc which was obviously encoded in DTS HD MA, that few mins for me were a torture to my ears. Sound was outright harsh with piercing highs and ok bass. In comparision if I were to play the same demo disc on the Yamaha it will give me the WoW effect and not just loudness.



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S

Sachb

Audioholic
Not only that, but then he criticized Denon for burning out. How about letting your amp cool and breathe??

Sooner or later it all comes down crushing on you when you try to belittle a respected company and blame them for your own lack of knowledge.
Respected company for the huge number of blow ups it has caused?

Did you even see the Amazon reviews on the Denons?

I was gonna jump the boat & get a Denon X3600H, but then there were some reviews somewhere about some Denon overheating and stopped working.

Mostly, it had to do with the mediocre sound, and on top of that reading the amazon reviews changed my mind.

So, i did some research for the reliability and sound, and the Yamaha was the one that came on my mind. I just went to the authentic Yamaha store and brought home the Yamaha to replace my Denon.

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Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Samurai
I wanted to try the A2080 but no can do. My local Bestbuy has a used one with no cord or remote control for over $900! F#%kin' theives. :mad: The other local Yamaha dealer has nothing left and can't get anymore.
No remote? that would be like buying a used car with no steering wheel!
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Samurai
I have many setups in my house as well

canton chrono sl 5.1.4 setup with denon 6700

canton vento 7.2.4 setup with onkyo rz920

canton chrono 3.1 setup with pioneer 502

martin Logan motion xt 5.1 setup with marantz 7011

energy veritas 3.1 setup with Yamaha 3070

focal 2ch setup as well with vintage gear.

I bring in new gear to try and see if I can get any kind of improvement. With audyssey engaged you’ll see a huge difference with bass. My Rythmik fv18 sounded flatter and more balanced with a loss in 8-10db in peak spl. These dynamics are only noticed at reference levels. Not everyone wants to hear a demo at over 125db. If you play from 75-85db with peaks of 105db then it’s not really going to matter what avr you get. They’ll sound similar
Photos are it isn't true. :D
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Not only that, but then he criticized Denon for burning out. How about letting your amp cool and breathe??

Sooner or later it all comes down crushing on you when you try to belittle a respected company and blame them for your own lack of knowledge.
Yes. And there’s like 2” of space between his LCR. Might as well use a soundbar. I’ve decided to just ignore him. Nothing but inexperienced marketing regurgitation. I’ve used/owned every brand of AVR and reading his drivel is time I can’t retrieve. Love how he knows more than people here with 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 or more years of experience. Can’t even place his fukkin top of the line elac speakers right. And I’m SURE he used “direct” mode to compare.
Love the videos too...really highlights how great.....my iPhone sounds. And he calls people trolls waiting to jump on him. Lmao. He’s the one waiting for a denon/yamaha/Onkyo thread to pop up. The only reason I even said anything the first time was because there was no objective basis for beating the yamaha drum. Don’t even care if he’d simply state what he prefers but the endless trails of nonsense about BRANDS is ridiculous. Couldn’t possibly use some humility and say, huh, maybe I had a setting turned on/off, or whatever. Still haven’t seen any data, like measurements to correlate his nonsense. Oh yeah, measurements are useless. Forgot.

DONE.....

I know ADTG loves his new yamaha stuff. I’ll never take that away from him, although I will definitely rib him a little. Lol but he’s also quick to say that sound quality is NOT one of the reasons he likes them. And his gear all costs multitudes of the 2300 and 1080 and elacs combined. Pretty sure he’d notice a difference.
At least we have some cannon fodder.
 

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