Denon DVD-3930CI Review

[kenhoeve]

I tried all the resolutions (my panel won't take 1080p) and it seems that the 480i is the sharpest (480p same). I did read prior to purchasing the TV that one of it's best features was it's ability to take standard rez input and produce a great picture out of it.. but i'm not clear yet as to wether using the upscaling of the player would result in a better overall picture, apart from the apparent sharpness (thinking of processing speed; 'flagwaving', color, depth etc.) maybe i should have it professionally calibrated... so i can rest assured

After reading Clint's review I don't see how this could possibly be. No way should a tv outscale this player.

 

[spectre27]

That’s exactly what I think (I waited for this player since July) and the reason why I initially didn’t bother comparing the 1080i vs the 480.. but after flipping back and forth repeatedly on different movies (I even picked up the super-bit version of 5th element, -so now I have 2) I can tell you it is noticeably slightly sharper when running it at 480. Note I use Kimber HD-19 HDMIs and 3rd link through a 3805 with a Rotel RB890 driving the mains and it does look good & sounds amazing, but I’m concerned; maybe it should be looking even better?

 

[ronnie 1.8]

Yeah, I'll post my results, but it won't be until the 11th of Dec. I was outputting 720p, with my plasma's res being 1366x768, so I wouldn't believe re-scaling would be the cause.

So I had my plasma calibrated yesterday, and it turned out to be the cause. With it properly calibrated, the 3930CI needed only the slightest of tweaking, and the picture, via HDMI is nothing less than spectacular. Even the tech was impressed (first 3930CI he's worked on). So all is well again. Got my Harmony 880 tweaked to support the new input being used on my plasma, and ready to roll!

 

[rollinrocker]

Clint's review got me excited about this player and i ended up buying one last week, along with a 3806 to use as a pre-pro. The denonlink in itself is nearly worth the price of admission. Sound quality is amazing, big step from 2910 and 3303 i used prior. Video is component for time being and is excellent. Should i expect marked improvement when i finally go hdmi?

 

[ronnie 1.8]

Clint's review got me excited about this player and i ended up buying one last week, along with a 3806 to use as a pre-pro. The denonlink in itself is nearly worth the price of admission. Sound quality is amazing, big step from 2910 and 3303 i used prior. Video is component for time being and is excellent. Should i expect marked improvement when i finally go hdmi?

We have a similar system, and both came from a 2910. We did connect the 3930 via comp for some time during testing, but my tech didn't optimize it for that input on my plasma, so I cannot respond to your question. Yes, the DenonLink is amazing, and nice to swap 8 cables for 5.1 and CD to the one Link. One thing I've noticed w/ a player that outputs greater than 480p, is that I don't like to always output 720p, even though my plasma is 768p. The reason is that if I'm watching 1.33:1 material (season 3 of The Wire currently), I can't change the aspect, should I wish. So, on my Harmony 880, I have "HDMI Format" as a custom button when watching DVD's. Makes it easy and fast to change the output from 480p to 720p.

 

[pbarach1]

Denonlink has good and bad points

Clint's review got me excited about this player and i ended up buying one last week, along with a 3806 to use as a pre-pro. The denonlink in itself is nearly worth the price of admission.

Denonlink uses the audio DAC's in the receiver, so your 3930 is essentially operating as a transport for audio. In contrast, using analog audio connections to your receiver lets the DAC in the 3930 do its work.

I have a 3910 and a 3805 receiver. SACD's in my system sound noticeably better via analog connection versus Denonlink, all other things being equal. My conclusion is that the audio DAC in the 3910 is better than the one in my receiver. Even though Denonlink lets me apply the receiver's AutoEQ settings to SACD output, the analog connection still sounds better to my ears. Has anyone else had this experience with Denonlink?

 

[ronnie 1.8]

Denonlink uses the audio DAC's in the receiver, so your 3930 is essentially operating as a transport for audio. In contrast, using analog audio connections to your receiver lets the DAC in the 3930 do its work.

I have a 3910 and a 3805 receiver. SACD's in my system sound noticeably better via analog connection versus Denonlink, all other things being equal. My conclusion is that the audio DAC in the 3910 is better than the one in my receiver. Even though Denonlink lets me apply the receiver's AutoEQ settings to SACD output, the analog connection still sounds better to my ears. Has anyone else had this experience with Denonlink?

Has this been confirmed? I can't imagine why Denon would allow a consumer to buy their, let's say flagship DVD5910, connect it to my AVR3805, and have it sound only as good as the dac's in my receiver. That defeats the purpose of the DenonLink. Arrgggghhhhhh...

EDIT: Just browsed Clint's review of the 3930CI, and found this under "Listening Evaluation":

"I utilized the analogue outputs of the player to send audio from the player to the receiver (in order to experience the DVD-3930CI’s DACs)..."

So it seems this has been confirmed. Well, it seems I will be reconnecting my 8 cables for 5.1 and 2 ch stereo experience. So considering the dac's in my DVD player are superior to the dac's in my receiver, what benefit does the DenonLink now provide?

 

[pbarach1]

So considering the dac's in my DVD player are superior to the dac's in my receiver, what benefit does the DenonLink now provide?

1. It lets you apply the room equalization features in your receiver to SACD and DVD-Audio signals. If you don't use Denonlink, then the audio signals are converted in the DVD player, time delay (i.e., distance from each speaker to the listener) and bass management are handled in the player, and the receiver basically just amplifies those signals and sends them to the speakers without further processing. However, if you use Denonlink, the digital output from the player is converted to analog in the receiver, the time delay and bass management take place in the receiver as well, and the room EQ settings that you have chosen are applied. Some people feel that in their system, the room EQ feature more than compensates for the inferior DAC in their receiver. In my case, I felt that the opposite was true.

2. The other reasons some people prefer the Denonlink have to do with convenience: It's one cheap (standard Ethernet CAT5) cable, instead of the six more expensive interconnects (and some people pay thousands for them) you need if you're making analog connections. Also, you never have to switch the inputs to EXT IN on the receiver for SACD or DVD-A if you're using the Denonlink for that kind of audio signal.

 

[ronnie 1.8]

Excellent. Thanks for your answer. Like you, I want the superior processing of the dac's in my player. I already have great analog cables, and will spend the next couple hours installing them, and tweaking my Harmony 880. Is there a difference in using DenonLink vs digital coax for the audio of video DVD's, i.e., Dolby Digital and DTS?

 

[pbarach1]

Is there a difference in using DenonLink vs digital coax for the audio of video DVD's, i.e., Dolby Digital and DTS?

I hear no difference. The DenonLink cable came with my 3910 player, so it was basically free. I compared the DenonLink to the digital coax cable as well as to optical (TOSLINK), and I heard no differences among the three. All three of mine are really short cables, so I have no experience with assessing whether longer cable runs would reveal differences among these 3 types of digital interconnects. My opinion, FWIW, is to save your money and use the DenonLink that you already got with your player!

 

[ronnie 1.8]

I hear no difference.

Yeah, as I would expect. Well, I already have a great digital coax, so just so I can utilize $$ already spent, I'll use it in place of the DenonLink. Thanks for your help.

 

[pbarach1]

Yeah, as I would expect. Well, I already have a great digital coax, so just so I can utilize $$ already spent, I'll use it in place of the DenonLink. Thanks for your help.

However, the digital coax will not transmit SACD and DVD-A, so you'll need either analog or DenonLink if you listen to those sources. You can actually have all of them connected up at once and compare them. The only "gotcha" to doing this on the 3910 is that if DenonLink is connected and selected on the 3805, the 3910 will only output 2-channel sound from the 6-channel analog outputs. I don't know if this is the case with the 3930...

 

[ronnie 1.8]

Yeah, I'll use 8 cables for the 5.1 ch and 2 ch, and also dig coax for video DVDs. I won't use DenonLink at all. As soon as my wife finishes watching an episode of The Wire, I'll begin! Nice. Looking forward to listening to a lot of music (both 2 and multi ch) on the 3930CI.

 

[genesis471]

Region Free?

To change the subject a little, does anyone know whether there is a firmware update yet to make the 3930 region code free?
I have the 3910 and I'm very happy with it. I haven't read anywhere that the 3930 blows the 3910 away in PQ or audio, so right now I couldn't justify the move to the 3930.
Have a Toshiba HD-A2 on the way too! Merry x-mas to me!

Mike

 

[rollinrocker]

I'm feeling unsure now. One of my reasons for mating the 3930 with a 3806 was to use the denonlink feature, thus freeing the ext. in jacks for a future hd dvd or blue ray upgrade. I would then have the best of both worlds, top tier sd video performance and sacd/dvd audio playback, plus HD capabilities. Clint also states in his review of the 5910ci that the proper place for signal management is at the processor, not the player, which is exactly what denonlink provides. I realize the 3930ci is NOT the 5910ci, and the 3806 is NOT the 5805, but i hoped the differences would be mainly in amp sections and processing power. I may have made a mistake then by not installing the ext in cables at this time, because my main concern is highest quality audio playback. As i stated in the earlier post, i think denonlink sounds fantastic, but if i'm missing something, that bugs me. I guess i need to hook 'em up and listen to see if the 1796 dacs in the 3930 are better than the 1791 dacs in the 3806. Clint, tell me it ain't so!!!

 

[ronnie 1.8]

I'm feeling unsure now. One of my reasons for mating the 3930 with a 3806 was to use the denonlink feature, thus freeing the ext. in jacks for a future hd dvd or blue ray upgrade. I would then have the best of both worlds, top tier sd video performance and sacd/dvd audio playback, plus HD capabilities. Clint also states in his review of the 5910ci that the proper place for signal management is at the processor, not the player, which is exactly what denonlink provides. I realize the 3930ci is NOT the 5910ci, and the 3806 is NOT the 5805, but i hoped the differences would be mainly in amp sections and processing power. I may have made a mistake then by not installing the ext in cables at this time, because my main concern is highest quality audio playback. As i stated in the earlier post, i think denonlink sounds fantastic, but if i'm missing something, that bugs me. I guess i need to hook 'em up and listen to see if the 1796 dacs in the 3930 are better than the 1791 dacs in the 3806. Clint, tell me it ain't so!!!

I'd like to know more about Clint's belief that the best place for signal management is at the processor, not the player. I believe to achieve the best sound quality, ext in must be used, which mandates signal management (speaker configuration, channel level, delay time) be made at the player. So there seems to be a contradiction here I don't understand. If your main objective is highest quality audio, and because only your 3930 plays DVDA/SACD, then reserve the ext in's on your AVR for your 3930. Your HD DVD player, or Blu Ray won't play DVDA/SACD. Since you have the AVR3806, I don't believe it supports any of the hi-res audio codecs, so you'll be using DD or DTS when playing HD or BD discs. I can't say I certainly heard a difference between DL3 and ext in, but just knowing that ext in is superior makes my decision. In addition, I use source direct on both player and avr. I wouldn't wager I can hear a difference, but when I'm enjoying my 5.1 or 2 ch music, I know it's the best it can be for my system, my environment. Curious, why wouldn't you want to use digital coax or optical for the audio of a future HD or BD player? Since they can't play DVDA/SACD, why use your 3806's ext in's?

 

[MACCA350]

Curious, why wouldn't you want to use digital coax or opt for the audio of a future HD or BD player? Since they can't play DVDA/SACD, why use your 3806's ext in's?

With the BD and HD players, the Coax/Optical connection is the lowest quality form of connection, all the High-res audio is downconverted to pass over those connections. The highest quality connections are Analogue and HDMI(audio is transferred digitally in multichannel high-res PCM)

cheers

 

[ronnie 1.8]

Ah, I see. Well, then it comes down to whether you, rollinrocker, want highest quality audio for your DVDA/SACD collection, or your future HD/BD player. Hmm, I didn't realize this. Now I have more interest in this thread!

 

[ronnie 1.8]

With the BD and HD players, the Coax/Optical connection is the lowest quality form of connection, all the High-res audio is downconverted to pass over those connections. The highest quality connections are Analogue and HDMI(audio is transferred digitally in multichannel high-res PCM)

cheers

So with DVDA/SACD in SD players, such as my 3930CI, this is how audio is passed, right? That is, digitally in multichanel PCM?

Thinking outloud, why wouldn't analogue produce the highest quality sound in SD DVDs? What would happen if I tried to play DD or DTS via my players 5.1 outputs?

 

[MACCA350]

So with DVDA/SACD in SD players, such as my 3930CI, this is how audio is passed, right? That is, digitally in multichanel PCM?

DVD-A passes digitally as Multichannel PCM
SACD passes Digitally as DSD(IIRC)

Thinking outloud, why wouldn't analogue produce the highest quality sound in SD DVDs? What would happen if I tried to play DD or DTS via my players 5.1 outputs?

The 3930CI has 5.1 analogue outputs, so you can use the analogue outputs for DD and DTS. The same reasons apply, convenience, Bass management and Room EQ as well as Prologic IIx for 6.1 & 7.1 processing(if you use it).

BTW the 3805 also uses the AL24 Processing Plus for DVD-A(and any PCM signal) over the DenonLink. Also the 3805 uses 16(IIRC) DAC's, 2 per channel and combines them when processing only 2 channels. I'm not sure how many the 3930CI uses.

cheers