Denon AVR-X3400H/X3500H/X4400H/X4500H Owners thread

[Paul DS]

I totally agree. The end user can be his own worst enemy! I know I sure can!

There are so many dozens of settings on the Denon receivers that it's no wonder that something could be overlooked. One small oversight can make a very big difference in audio output.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

There are so many dozens of settings on the Denon receivers that it's no wonder that something could be overlooked. One small oversight can make a very big difference in audio output.

Absolutely! The manufacturers don’t do much to help the user figure out what they’re supposed to do. Kinda frustrating really. It’s easy to see why people can give up saying meh, it just wasn’t that big a deal.

 

[lovinthehd]

Absolutely! The manufacturers don’t do much to help the user figure out what they’re supposed to do. Kinda frustrating really. It’s easy to see why people can give up saying meh, it just wasn’t that big a deal.

Hey, if we can operate computers, phones & networks you think we can handle this stuff....right?

 

[Danzilla31]

Hey, if we can operate computers, phones & networks you think we can handle this stuff....right?

Actually I'm starting to think that stuff handles me.....

 

[lovinthehd]

Actually I'm starting to think that stuff handles me.....

All your base are belong to us!

 

[Paul DS]

Absolutely! The manufacturers don’t do much to help the user figure out what they’re supposed to do. Kinda frustrating really. It’s easy to see why people can give up saying meh, it just wasn’t that big a deal.

The saddest part is that no instruction manual is provided with the receiver. I can't believe that most people would even have a clue as to how to set up a modern receiver. I had to purchase a printed copy of the setup manual from Ebay. The only manual they had was for the AVRX3400 receiver. Fortunately, this is close enough for my needs. As far as I know, no one provides a printed owners manual with their receivers anymore.

 

[lovinthehd]

The saddest part is that no instruction manual is provided with the receiver. I can't believe that most people would even have a clue as to how to set up a modern receiver. I had to purchase a printed copy of the setup manual from Ebay. The only manual they had was for the AVRX3400 receiver. Fortunately, this is close enough for my needs. As far as I know, no one provides a printed owners manual with their receivers anymore.

Just download the pdf, it's free. Easier to use than a printed manual, too.

 

[Paul DS]

Just download the pdf, it's free. Easier to use than a printed manual, too.

I have the PDF and no, it's not easier for me to use. I want the printed manual in front of me. Most times when I'm using the Denon I don't have a computer running.

 

[lovinthehd]

Then print the relative pages from the pdf before diddling with the avr I find the pdf far easier to search personally or to concentrate on specific issues. YMMV.

 

[Danzilla31]

Ok so I got both Emotivas hooked up to the Denon and recalibrated Audyssey. Ran into a few things that I have questions on.

The Denon has this thing called Cinema EQ it has a default to on? From what I understand of it it softens the treble range in movies by rolling it off at a certain point. Should I leave it on or like everything else turn it off. I have all the other dynamic volumes etc in Audyssey and in the audio menu turned to off. Should I turn off cinema eq?

Audyssey was consistent with my last time I measured it. But it set my levels on the front 3 towers way off. -4.5 Left: -5.5 Center: -5.5 Right: -0.5 SurroundR: -0.5 SurroundL: -2.5 SurroundBR: -2.5 SurroundBL: +1.5 HeightR: +2.0 HeightRback: +1.0 HeightL +2.0HeightLback.

Now these readings are consistent except for the front three. It usually sets them at -1.5 -1 and -1.5 or close to that range on the front 3. It set them at -2.5 L -2.0 C and -3.0 R with the crown amps. I'm a little concerned about that range it's now set at. I have no problem manually adjusting to taste. But if I move the front 3 up a few values say to -1.5 -1 and -1.5 per say just what should I do with the other speakers. Adjust them as well? Is there a rule of thumb here?

Also the subs were measured at 12.2 ft but the real measurement is 10.5? Is that normal for Audyssey to set that farther back? Or should I adjust it up to where it's accurate?

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Danzilla31]

Hey, if we can operate computers, phones & networks you think we can handle this stuff....right?

Hey you were spot on with shutting off that Audyssey setting. Now PENGS observation of going to 80 is reference is beyond spot on. It's too loud now. I'm definitely as I make some adjustments after this last Audyssey calibration going to be dialing it back. Which makes me feel a lot better I've never before had to run recievers that high until this place. Thought it was the place turns out it was more my learning curve that was the culprit.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ok so I got both Emotivas hooked up to the Denon and recalibrated Audyssey. Ran into a few things that I have questions on.

The Denon has this thing called Cinema EQ it has a default to on? From what I understand of it it softens the treble range in movies by rolling it off at a certain point. Should I leave it on or like everything else turn it off. I have all the other dynamic volumes etc in Audyssey and in the audio menu turned to off. Should I turn off cinema eq?

Audyssey was consistent with my last time I measured it. But it set my levels on the front 3 towers way off. -4.5 Left: -5.5 Center: -5.5 Right: -0.5 SurroundR: -0.5 SurroundL: -2.5 SurroundBR: -2.5 SurroundBL: +1.5 HeightR: +2.0 HeightRback: +1.0 HeightL +2.0HeightLback.

Now these readings are consistent except for the front three. It usually sets them at -1.5 -1 and -1.5 or close to that range on the front 3. It set them at -2.5 L -2.0 C and -3.0 R with the crown amps. I'm a little concerned about that range it's now set at. I have no problem manually adjusting to taste. But if I move the front 3 up a few values say to -1.5 -1 and -1.5 per say just what should I do with the other speakers. Adjust them as well? Is there a rule of thumb here?

Also the subs were measured at 12.2 ft but the real measurement is 10.5? Is that normal for Audyssey to set that farther back? Or should I adjust it up to where it's accurate?

Any input would be appreciated.

Cinema EQ sounds like a setting for when not using Audyssey? Audyssey normal curve (Audyssey or movie mode) also rolls off highest frequencies. Audyssey Flat/music leaves that alone. I'd probably have to check out your manual, tho as I don't have one of the current models (my newest Denon is the 4520 and doesn't have a Cinema EQ mode, altho I believe my Onkyo does have something like that for when Audyssey isn't in play).

The mix of speaker levels might be different due gain structure between avr/amp or different mic position? Did only the fronts change levels? I wouldn't just change levels to what a different calibration came up with.

Subs measurement can take into account inherent delay in the amp's processing time, so not unusual to have a bit more delay (distance).

 

[Danzilla31]

Cinema EQ sounds like a setting for when not using Audyssey? Audyssey normal curve (Audyssey or movie mode) also rolls off highest frequencies. Audyssey Flat/music leaves that alone. I'd probably have to check out your manual, tho as I don't have one of the current models (my newest Denon is the 4520 and doesn't have a Cinema EQ mode, altho I believe my Onkyo does have something like that for when Audyssey isn't in play).

The mix of speaker levels might be different due gain structure between avr/amp or different mic position? Did only the fronts change levels? I wouldn't just change levels to what a different calibration came up with.

Subs measurement can take into account inherent delay in the amp's processing time, so not unusual to have a bit more delay (distance).

Yeah my onkyo has that as well. So I'm going to leave cinema eq on unless someone tells me different.

Yes only the front 3 changed and I'm hesitant to say Audyssey was wrong because they dropped exactly 3 values from the crown settings. The original XPA5 had that high gain setting of 32 like the UPA. So maybe It's compensating. It's just man -5?. That's a lot taken away from the towers. Those primes measure pretty well and they've never been set at Audyssey at that level before. I've always thought good speakers measure inside a certain window even on Audyssey and although the SVS prime towers aren't high end they are very good speakers. Never had them measure like that before.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah my onkyo has that as well. So I'm going to leave cinema eq on unless someone tells me different.

Yes only the front 3 changed and I'm hesitant to say Audyssey was wrong because they dropped exactly 3 values from the crown settings. The original XPA5 had that high gain setting of 32 like the UPA. So maybe It's compensating. It's just man -5?. That's a lot taken away from the towers. Those primes measure pretty well and they've never been set at Audyssey at that level before. I've always thought good speakers measure inside a certain window even on Audyssey and although the SVS prime towers aren't high end they are very good speakers. Never had them measure like that before.

You only have an external amp on the fronts? What's the setting of 32 refer to? It might be time for a recap of what you've got/are doing.

 

[Danzilla31]

You only have an external amp on the fronts? What's the setting of 32 refer to? It might be time for a recap of what you've got/are doing.

I have an Emotiva XPA 5 driving the front 3. And an Emotiva UPA 7 driving the heights and back surrounds. Only the front surround right and left are being driven by the reciever. What I meant by a gain of 32 is that's the gain on those amplifiers. From what I understand Emotiva set them kind off high back in the day until customers asked them to lower that down on newer models. From what Gene said back in the day in a review on the UPA-7 it's about 2 to 3db higher then amps usually are set. From what I've been told that gain value on those amps is considered kind off higher then most power amplifiers usually are. I thought it might be affecting Audyssey in adjusting to it.

 

[Danzilla31]

You only have an external amp on the fronts? What's the setting of 32 refer to? It might be time for a recap of what you've got/are doing.

This will be a moot point next year. I still like the crowns better then the Emotivas at least so far. Once I buy the SVS ultra's I'm planning on selling the Emotivas and building my whole system on those crowns. 2002's for the front 3 ultra's. 1502's for the prime towers I'll use as surrounds. And the 1002's I have currently for the in ceilings. But until then I'm just trying to get the best sound out of the Emotivas I can and get them to play with my speakers as good as I can until I'm ready to change everything up.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

This will be a moot point next year. I still like the crowns better then the Emotivas at least so far. Once I buy the SVS ultra's I'm planning on selling the Emotivas and building my whole system on those crowns. 2002's for the front 3 ultra's. 1502's for the prime towers I'll use as surrounds. And the 1002's I have currently for the in ceilings. But until then I'm just trying to get the best sound out of the Emotivas I can and get them to play with my speakers as good as I can until I'm ready to change everything up.

You, my friend will have(do have) a very nice system.
That display though.........

 

[Danzilla31]

You, my friend will have(do have) a very nice system.
That display though.........

WILLIAM!!!!! Don't even start!!!!!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

WILLIAM!!!!! Don't even start!!!!!

I’m sorry man, I’ve been holding that one in forever! Jk. I couldn’t resist, I’ll stop now. In fact I’m gonna go in a time out. Until morning...

 

[PENG]

Interesting. The reason I said it that was because I got the impression that auto was the factory setting. At least that’s how I undertone guys that were reporting about it. However I was very sick and my brain function could have been even less than normal!

I also read about some reported that it being turned on by itself with Dolby signal. I have no idea what happened to those people. If you go to the menu, press set defaults, it would set loudness management to "ON" and Dynamic compression to "OFF". I have never seen it changed to "Auto", after playing many Dolby stuff, disc, or digital files...

Now, the owner'a manual is confusing as it says:

See the confusing part in the second bullet. That's why I ran some test with Dolby disc/files, again, have never seen it changed to "Auto" from "Off" automatically. Would you please try it too and see what happens, if you have some spare time?