Denon AVR-4520ci has arrived and is installed.

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My 8801 is out for repair

Bad luck.

First the AT3005, now the AV8001.

With that kind of luck, better stay away from any refurbished items in the future.

 

[PENG]

Bad luck.

First the AT3005, now the AV8001.

With that kind of luck, better stay away from any refurbished items in the future.

I am sure his 8801 is brand new not refurb, too soon for refurb to become available yet, don't you think? Regarding the heat, it may have something to do with the more featured rich video components and circuitry. Even turned off, they most likely still produce heat just sitting there to standby. One other key factor is that for some reason their enclosure is not as well ventilated as the 7005. Almost the entire top of the 7005's enclosure is perforated whereas the 8801 is about 1/3. It may still be cooler than equivalent Onkyo/Integra models but I am not going to take any chances. This could well be my last prepro, at least that's my current thinking/plan.

 

[RichB]

Bad luck.

First the AT3005, now the AV8001.

With that kind of luck, better stay away from any refurbished items in the future.

There is nothing wrong with "Refurbished" items.
I really think the ATI was environmental sensitivity.

The Parasound is also a great amp.
Is it sweeter sounding at low volume? Maybe, I cannot be sure.
The ATI3005 draw 130 watts at idle.
The A51 draws about 145 watts to produce about 8 watts class-A.
That leads me to believe that it is also high class-a biased amp.
I think that ATI understates the features of their own brand because they are primarily a OEM amp builder

The Outlaw 7500 is also out for repair. It was thumping when my amp turned on and off and produce a lot of AC hum on the surround left channel. This was used, so its history is unknown. One thing about the ATI/Outlaw design is that the amp continues to play when the power is off. The input circuitry is active so when trouble-shooting they recommended waiting 10 seconds for the caps to discharge before disconnecting the inputs to avoid damaging the circuits.
Perhaps, that is overly cautious, I don't know.

Sound wise, I feel ATI3000 was definitely better sounding than the 7500. This is a long term feeling, no science here.
The Parasound is also excellent.

I am getting pretty good at boxing, wheeling, and shipping these monsters

- Rch

 

[Cos]

Wow, and I thought I was the one with all the bad luck. The limited time I did have the AV7005 I never had issues with heat, in fact I was surprised on how cool it operated. I usually don't use it for more than a few hours at a time, but still I wonder if you just got a defective unit. Even my Halo 52/23 combo tends to get a bit on the warm side after a few hours of use. I would be curious to see how it performs once you get it back from Marantz and hopefully it was just a defective unit.

I will say that the DHC-80.3 does tend to get a bit on the warm side, but nothing that I would fry an egg on. I have open venting and about 3" of clearance on that.

I was actually checking the AVS forum to see feedback on the 8801 and I noticed that you also had an issue with the Parasound A51 losing a channel? wow you blow me away in the back luck department.

 

[RichB]

I am sure his 8801 is brand new not refurb, too soon for refurb to become available yet, don't you think? Regarding the heat, it may have something to do with the more featured rich video components and circuitry. Even turned off, they most likely still produce heat just sitting there to standby. One other key factor is that for some reason their enclosure is not as well ventilated as the 7005. Almost the entire top of the 7005's enclosure is perforated whereas the 8801 is about 1/3. It may still be cooler than equivalent Onkyo/Integra models but I am not going to take any chances. This could well be my last prepro, at least that's my current thinking/plan.

My AV8801 was A-Stock.
I do not think you can truly turn these features in away to significantly produces heat.
I did notice an slight improvement in sound quality switching the video mode from Auto to Game.
Game mode reduced the watts at the wall from 60 to 59 so something is getting turned off.

DSP's and Video processors can produce significant heat and it adds up.
There is no fan in the AV8801.
It is more likely that their is a rise about ambient temperature and when a heat producing amp is below it that can easily raise that from a normal mid 70's to 90s. That would explain my thermal experience

I do think you need worry about standby. Even with HDMI pass-though and control enabled it is pulling less than 5 watts from the wall so there can no significant heat.

- Rich

 

[PENG]

Wow, and I thought I was the one with all the bad luck. The limited time I did have the AV7005 I never had issues with heat, in fact I was surprised on how cool it operated. I usually don't use it for more than a few hours at a time, but still I wonder if you just got a defective unit. Even my Halo 52/23 combo tends to get a bit on the warm side after a few hours of use. I would be curious to see how it performs once you get it back from Marantz and hopefully it was just a defective unit.

I will say that the DHC-80.3 does tend to get a bit on the warm side, but nothing that I would fry an egg on. I have open venting and about 3" of clearance on that.

Cos, the 7005 is fine and cool. The 8801 is warm, not hot, but Rich happened to have a defective one. I am sure his unit will be fine once repaired, as long as it's done by Marantz. If not, I sure hope Marantz will just replace it with another new one.

Can you measure the temperature at different spots on the top/side of your 80.3 and share the readings too? Thanks in advance.

 

[RichB]

Wow, and I thought I was the one with all the bad luck. The limited time I did have the AV7005 I never had issues with heat, in fact I was surprised on how cool it operated. I usually don't use it for more than a few hours at a time, but still I wonder if you just got a defective unit. Even my Halo 52/23 combo tends to get a bit on the warm side after a few hours of use. I would be curious to see how it performs once you get it back from Marantz and hopefully it was just a defective unit.

I will say that the DHC-80.3 does tend to get a bit on the warm side, but nothing that I would fry an egg on. I have open venting and about 3" of clearance on that.

I was actually checking the AVS forum to see feedback on the 8801 and I noticed that you also had an issue with the Parasound A51 losing a channel? wow you blow me away in the back luck department.

I am a little pissed at the AV8801. It was three months old so they refused to replace it.
I do not know what to think about the heat. It seems like that has to be a design issue.
The plug was strange. I was working on some hum issues and all of the sudden there was a lot of hiss coming from the speakers. I wiggled the plug and it went away. Bad plug? Seriously?

United radio showed all parts arriving Thursday, so we will see.

Here is a picture of my Credenza when I had the Outlaw:

View attachment 11915

There should enough ventilation there but the air is pretty stagnant.
Here it is with the A51 and a BDP-95 taking a space. The BDP-105 to the left is my preamp.

View attachment 11916



- Rich

 

[PENG]

There should enough ventilation there but the air is pretty stagnant.
Here it is with the A51 and a BDP-95 taking a space. The BDP-105 to the left is my preamp.

View attachment 11916



- Rich

So you kept the 95, I wish I did, but traded it in at the time money was a bit tight. I didn't miss it's remote though, for it's lack of sensitivity, I wonder if the 105's remote would work with it and do a better job, or it's the receiving end that was the problem?

 

[RichB]

So you kept the 95, I wish I did, but traded it in at the time money was a bit tight. I didn't miss it's remote though, for it's lack of sensitivity, I wonder if the 105's remote would work with it and do a better job, or it's the receiving end that was the problem?

I beta test for Oppo and they are still releasing firmware for the BDP-95 so I'll have it for a while.

I am not sure about the remotes. I just program my Pronto.
However, I have a BDP-80, 83, and found the remotes work on all models with the exception of the new functions (of course).

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just checked. After 2 hrs of 5.1 DTS movie, my AVP and ATI are not even warm!

Okay, after another hour, my AVP and ATI are still not even warm.

 

[Cos]

1. I wish I knew that the Halo's came in black...hey its ok, I am planning to upgrading to a Bryston SP3 after tax time next year
2. I really like the Credenza, is that custom made or where did you get it, would work perfect in my HT room

Can't find my Ryobi infrared thermometer, but when I was out today picking up my AON 2 speakers for my bedroom, I played Avengers for the two hours I was gone. It was mildly warm, but no where near hot, my Halo A52 was pretty warm if I put my hand directly on it.

 

[RichB]

1. I wish I knew that the Halo's came in black...hey its ok, I am planning to upgrading to a Bryston SP3 after tax time next year
2. I really like the Credenza, is that custom made or where did you get it, would work perfect in my HT room

Can't find my Ryobi infrared thermometer, but when I was out today picking up my AON 2 speakers for my bedroom, I played Avengers for the two hours I was gone. It was mildly warm, but no where near hot, my Halo A52 was pretty warm if I put my hand directly on it.

Parasound just recently updated their web site to include black mages.
initially,I ruled them out because they were silver.

I measured the A51 heat sinks in the low 104 and 108 at the center back.

I had the ATI3005 at 126 degrees playing it at reference volume for 20 minutes. I think theses amps are similar in heat production but the A51's external fins dissipate heat better. Both heat the components above them very well

When I renivated the house, I have my cabinet maker build it.
it has excellent wheels so I can roll it out to get to the back.
It is tough to organize the wires, I think it is easier to organize vertical units.

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I had the ATI3005 at 126 degrees playing it at reference volume for 20 minutes.

Wow, that's hot.

After 4 hrs of playing 5.1 movies @ good volume and room-shaking bass, both my AT3002 and 3005 were barely warm to touch. I must have good ventilation and airflow.

How hot (temp) is your room ?

If I leave my Denon 3312 on and not even play anything at all (Stop mode), it will gets very hot after several hours.

If I leave my AT amps on ALL DAY AND NIGHT (24 HR, Stop mode), they barely get warm. It's like touching my kids' foreheads when they are not sick or not running around screaming.

So if you guys leave your Marantz, Denon, or other gears on 24 hrs (stop mode), do they get hot?

 

[PENG]

Wow, that's hot.

After 4 hrs of playing 5.1 movies @ good volume and room-shaking bass, both my AT3002 and 3005 were barely warm to touch. I must have good ventilation and airflow.

How hot (temp) is your room ?

If I leave my Denon 3312 on and not even play anything at all (Stop mode), it will gets very hot after several hours.

If I leave my AT amps on ALL DAY AND NIGHT (24 HR, Stop mode), they barely get warm. It's like touching my kids' foreheads when they are not sick or not running around screaming.

So if you guys leave your Marantz, Denon, or other gears on 24 hrs (stop mode), do they get hot?

If I leave them on but not playing (you call that stop mode?), they don't get much cooler, may be a couple of degrees but I should take some measurement and get back to you in a few hours. It is kind of expected because contrary to a lot of people think, watching a movie and/or listening to music really do not use much power. Say, the thing output on average of 5W when watching a 7.1 movie, being class A/B, the power draw from the 120V outlet would be less than 10W, so that's only 10% more than the typical power consumption of a D&M AVR. It is much lower in my case because I am using 3 amps for my 7 speakers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I am planning to upgrading to a Bryston SP3 after tax time next year

Too bad the SP3 doesn't have the same 20 YR warranty like their amps.

Too bad Parasound never finished their new pre-pro.

I am curious about something. We all assume that high-end pre-pros like SP3 and McIntosh are all fully balanced. We assume. But has anyone ever really asked them about it? Truly verify for a fact? I mean $10K is a lot of money. Most of us expect a lot.

 

[RichB]

Wow, that's hot.

After 4 hrs of playing 5.1 movies @ good volume and room-shaking bass, both my AT3002 and 3005 were barely warm to touch. I must have good ventilation and airflow.

How hot (temp) is your room ?

If I leave my Denon 3312 on and not even play anything at all (Stop mode), it will gets very hot after several hours.

If I leave my AT amps on ALL DAY AND NIGHT (24 HR, Stop mode), they barely get warm. It's like touching my kids' foreheads when they are not sick or not running around screaming.

So if you guys leave your Marantz, Denon, or other gears on 24 hrs (stop mode), do they get hot?

My room is in the mid 70's.
this example was running 2 channel with the volume set at -5 for a good 20 minutes.
Loud is an understatement, but I kept the ATI clip lights off.
it was a torture test

I am listening to music now I the 60 DB range and the A51 is about 103 on the fins of the active amps.

Our Amps have serious heat syncs but preamps seem to skimp, even the expensive ones

- Rich

 

[PENG]

Wow, that's hot.

After 4 hrs of playing 5.1 movies @ good volume and room-shaking bass, both my AT3002 and 3005 were barely warm to touch. I must have good ventilation and airflow.

How hot (temp) is your room ?

If I leave my Denon 3312 on and not even play anything at all (Stop mode), it will gets very hot after several hours.

If I leave my AT amps on ALL DAY AND NIGHT (24 HR, Stop mode), they barely get warm. It's like touching my kids' foreheads when they are not sick or not running around screaming.

So if you guys leave your Marantz, Denon, or other gears on 24 hrs (stop mode), do they get hot?

At the moment the only AVR I have in the house is the old 3805. The temperature readins so far are as follow:

Room: 21.2

After turned on for 30 min temperature reached and stayed at: 38 to 42 along the hot side of the heat sink that is accessible from the top.
45 at the hottest spot that the infra red gun could aim to.


Listening in 2Ch Stereo for about 10 min now, temperature has not changed. Give it a couple of hours I think it would likely increase a few degrees but not more than that for reasons I cited before.

I turned on the MM8003 (An 8 ch amp) also about 10 min ago, room temperature there is 24. I'll wait for another 30 min before taking its temperature.

Just a stupid question, if the AVP and ATI ran so cool at "stop" mode, are you sure they don't have the smart to switch themselves back to standby mode?

Updates:

3805 - After more than 2 hr playing at average SPL of 71 db from 10 ft, as expected temperature had risen only 2 to 2.5 deg C and became steady. It was too loud for that room so I turned it off. This is yet another indication that for normal use, very little average power is output, and consumed.

MM8003 - Temperature rose from 24 deg C to around 42 to 46 deg C on and around the heat sink area. I has been holding steady when I start using it to watch TV about 10 minutes ago. Again, I expect temperature to increase by a few deg C after a couple of hours of use. May be less actually because it only has to power the 4 surround channels. I will be playing something 7.1 shortly and then take some readings after at least one hour of use.

Adcom and Anthem amp:

Both 2 channel power maps run cool so far, 27 to 28 when power is on but not making sound, 33 to 34 when being used, will also take more readings after watching something 7.1 for at least one hour.

 

[surveyor]

My AVR's and amp get pretty hot to the touch.
ie,
Denon AVR-4520ci, Denon AVR-3312ci, Yamaha RX-V2200
Outlaw Model 770
I have a old Carver M-1.0t that stays cool- SMPS.
The Denon AVR-4520 does not get very warm in pre-amp mode only.
Class AB amps run hot.
Class A amps run very hot.

 

[surveyor]

My AVR's and amp get pretty hot to the touch.
ie,
Denon AVR-4520ci, Denon AVR-3312ci, Yamaha RX-V2200
Outlaw Model 770
I have a old Carver M-1.0t that stays cool- SMPS.
The Denon AVR-4520 does not get very warm in pre-amp mode only.
Class AB amps run hot.
Class A amps run very hot.

[h=3]Conduction angle classes [edit][/h]<dl><dt>Class A</dt><dd>100% of the input signal is used (conduction angle Θ = 360°). The active element remains conducting[SUP][6][/SUP] all of the time.</dd><dt>Class B</dt><dd>50% of the input signal is used (Θ = 180°); the active element carries current half of each cycle, and is turned off for the other half.</dd><dt>Class AB</dt><dd>Class AB is intermediate between class A and B, the two active elements conduct more than half of the time</dd><dt>Class C</dt><dd>Less than 50% of the input signal is used (conduction angle Θ < 180°).</dd></dl>A "Class D" amplifier uses some form of pulse-width modulation to control the output devices; the conduction angle of each device is no longer related directly to the input signal but instead varies in pulse width. These are sometimes called "digital" amplifiers because the output device is switched fully on or off, and not carrying current proportional to the signal amplitude.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just a stupid question, if the AVP and ATI ran so cool at "stop" mode, are you sure they don't have the smart to switch themselves back to standby mode?

I figured the STANDBY indicator would come on if that were the case, but you never know.

However, they run so cool even after playing for hours, so it's no surprise they would be even cooler when nothing is playing.

I've been playing my Salon2/AVP/ATI for the last 2 hrs in Direct Mode 2.2 mode. My SPL reads 100dBC Max, average abut 85-90dBC.

Room temp 25C/78F, AVP 32C/90F, ATI3005 35C/95F (tip of thermometer touching top metal of AVP/ATI), which is actually hotter than I thought because they barely felt warm. I wonder if my thermometer is messed up.

Is 35C/95F degrees "barely warm"?