Denon 4810 with Emotiva

[4stereosnd]

I am new to the HT world and have some questions. I have a Denon 4810ci and an Emotiva XPA-3. I am going to use the XPA-3 to power my front and center channel speakers and use the Denon for my 2 surrounds - will eventually use it for 4 surround speakers. Anyway, I was wondering if you have to tell the Denon to use all available channel power for the 2 surround speakers I have or will it automatically use all available power? The instructions in the manual are not the greatest and there was some discussion about amp assigning that was not very detailed - hence my question. The default for a 5.1 system is not listed as normal - it is listed as
"Zone2"

 

[AVRat]

If you set the configuration to 5/7.1 and the Amp Assign to normal, only those amps that are assigned will be allowed to draw juice from the power supply.

 

[jeanseb]

Does that mean that he will have the total AVR power to juice up his surrounds? Or only the maximum that is avalaible per channel?

 

[AVRat]

Max available/ch.

 

[4stereosnd]

So how can i get around this so the receiver will use all available power for the channels I do have?

 

[AVRat]

Maybe I miscommunicated. Each amp only puts out so much power, 140W @ 8 ohms. It will draw power from the power supply on an as needed basis. If you’re only using 4 of the amps for surround duty, the receiver has plenty of juice to provide to the amps especially since those channels are not all calling for power at the same time. This is how most amps/receivers work. That is plenty for the surrounds. The 200W of the XPA-3 is less than 2db more than the 140W of the Denon.

 

[edmcanuck]

A lot of money poured into using the 2 watts/channel that your system will actually draw.

As pointed out, the Emotiva will add zero perceptible power to your system. Absolutely, completely not a drop.

 

[TheFactor]

Im thinking of the XPA-3 to power my center and front left and right channels along with my 130w per channel Pioneer Elite 94 to power my srb and sb, so my question is are you guys saying its not worth it? Wont it if anything improve the rear channels considerably along with adding 70w per channel on the fronts and center . I was just getting ready to pull the trigger but now you guys have me wondering . Sorry op not trying to hijack your thread just a quick question so my apologies in advance .

 

[edmcanuck]

Im thinking of the XPA-3 to power my center and front left and right channels along with my 130w per channel Pioneer Elite 94 to power my srb and sb, so my question is are you guys saying its not worth it?

You're just buying into marketing hype. Your very efficient, 8-Ohm speakers will play at 92dB with a single watt. That'd be like a jackhammer in your living room. You will NEVER play your system that loud. If you do, you'll suffer permanent hearing loss after a couple of movies. Very rarely does any home system use an entire watt of power driving speakers to normal listening levels.

Further, the XPA-3 pushes 200-watts into 8 Ohms (which again: is IMPOSSIBLE to actually realize). Assuming this were actually possible to use, 200-watts into those speakers represents a volume level 2dB louder than the 130-watt Pioneer. Sound has to be 3dB louder before you can actually tell that it got louder.

Save your money!

 

[TheFactor]

Thanks for your input much appreciated , I do have another question not doubting your reply because I understand what your saying but if anything wont it give me the same effect of running separates, better clarity ext. or is that not necessarily true either or just that im not running true separates like everything being seperate, im totaly happy with my system but you know how it is theres that drive that has you always wanting to make improvements if possible. Again im not discrediting your statements im just asking because everyday seems to be a new learning curve for me with so many different views .

 

[JJMP50]

I'll find out soon enough

Reading this thread has got me a little concerned. I just pulled the trigger on a Emo UPA-5. I'll be using my Yammy RX-V659 as a pre/pro and my speakers are JBL Studio Ls (830/810/C1) with an Outlaw LFM1c(not relevent). The JBLs are fairly effiecient @ 90db. If I'm understanding this thread, I will not notice much if any difference. The Yammy is rated @ 100wpc although I read an article that it really doesn't push close to that (closer to 50-60). I need to do some carpentry work on my stand to make room for the Emo. I guess I should keep the saw in the garage until I hook things up.

 

[XEagleDriver]

Get a XPA-3 instead

Reading this thread has got me a little concerned. 1) I just pulled the trigger on a Emo UPA-5. I'll be using my Yammy RX-V659 as a pre/pro . . . I will not notice much if any difference. The Yammy is rated @ 100wpc although 2) I read an article that it really doesn't push close to that (closer to 50-60). I need to do some carpentry work on my stand to make room for the Emo. I guess I should keep the saw in the garage until I hook things up.

JJMP,

1) If still possible, it would be better to belay the order for the UPA-5 (125W/ch) which is not enough of a power increase over the 659 to create a significant (or even noticable) improvement. Instead get a XPA-3 (200W/ch) for just about the same coin and power your front sound stage with it!

The XPA-3 would double the available power over the 659 which is generally the minimum needed to gain a noticable improvement. This would also unburden the 659 to provide more than enough power for either the 2 or 4 surrounds/surround backs in your system.

2) Although many newer, and older low end, Yammys do not produce the advertised power/ch I do not believe this applies to the 659. I don't know what article you refer, but Gene's review on this site came to a different conclusion, showing the 659 amp section performs better than rated by 20% in a 2-ch driven scenario! See:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/yamaha-rx-v659/rx-v659-measurements-analysis

FWIW: I upgraded to a Denon 988, primarily for HDMI and Audessy Multi, but kept the 659 in service as a nontraditional power amp by using it in multi-channel/pure direct mode to power my surrounds--automatically programmed with a Harmony 880 macro.


Cheers,
XEagleDriver

 

[TheFactor]

Reading this thread has got me a little concerned. I just pulled the trigger on a Emo UPA-5. I'll be using my Yammy RX-V659 as a pre/pro and my speakers are JBL Studio Ls (830/810/C1) with an Outlaw LFM1c(not relevent). The JBLs are fairly effiecient @ 90db. If I'm understanding this thread, I will not notice much if any difference. The Yammy is rated @ 100wpc although I read an article that it really doesn't push close to that (closer to 50-60). I need to do some carpentry work on my stand to make room for the Emo. I guess I should keep the saw in the garage until I hook things up.

Dont feel bad I had a Emo xpa-3 in my cart along with some inter connects ready to pull the trigger last night since they had free shipping until jan31 and I backed out after falling across this thread and talking to a few others about my setup with my Pioneer Elite avr and Probably wouldn't even notice a difference : (

 

[AVRat]

Yeah, unless you have a rather large space, and listen at high SPLs, receivers toward the top end of a manufacturer's line are generally more than sufficient. The one caveat being the design of the speakers being used. If the design specs with low impedance/sensitivity, then a separate amp may be warranted.

 

[tonedeaf]

Yeah, unless you have a rather large space, and listen at high SPLs, receivers toward the top end of a manufacturer's line are generally more than sufficient. The one caveat being the design of the speakers being used. If the design specs with low impedance/sensitivity, then a separate amp may be warranted.

So in essence,what your saying is if you have efficient speakers the 4810 has enough sauce to power all 7 speakers and a sub?I would be powering an all svs mts system with asub.
I like the specs on the 4310.The anchor bay processing has me interested,along with the internet.
This thread was right up my alley
P.S. are denons manuals really that bad?

 

[AVRat]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1179128

That room is somewhat similar in size to yours and as you can see from the reading, he spared no expense for the audio. So to each his own! But to answer your question, Yes, even the Denon 4310 paired with relatively easy to drive speakers would be capable of high SPLs.

I fear no Denon manual!!

 

[TheFactor]

What about the XPA-2 at 300 watts per channel , would I notice a difference then with my application ?

 

[AVRat]

No, the Pio 94 being at the top of the range has plenty of gusto to run the 60s effectively. Now if you were running the 100s, I’d definitely add the amp.

 

[indulger]

So what in your opinion is considered efficient speakers, db wise. I have speakers rated at a sensitivity of 87dB 1watt/1mtr. I know these are not the most efficient speakers but at what sensitivity do you start to think about an amp?

 

[Josuah]

FWIW, I don't agree that sound has to be +3dB to differentiate. It really depends on the person. For the longest time I thought my left ear hearing was getting worse only to discover I had my left computer speaker 1" farther away than my right.

Also, just because you have 92dB/1W efficiency speakers doesn't mean you can't use more power. My speakers are conservatively 89dB/1W efficiency and playing movies at reference level requires me to hit peaks that are about 300W (which is a lower wattage RMS). Yes, my power RMS is probably around 1-2W during the majority of a movie, but the headroom is necessary. Sometimes the movie will have 100dB for a second, although this is rare. But that is long enough for the clean power to matter to your ears.

But yes, I agree with the other posters that the small change in power isn't going to make a whole lot of difference.