Demand Honest Power Ratings in AV Receivers. Join our TiP Movement!

[Elliott C. Michaeld]

I'm very aware of how power ratings can differ greatly. I recall once purchasing a small low-power stereo system from Philips to use as a travel system when my wife and I would go on business or vacation and stay in hotel rooms. I checked the specifications in the owner's manual. It listed two (2) different figures for "output power." The first was "2×5 watts RMS," which was normal for an inexpensive unit like this. The second read "150 watts PMPO," which I assume stands for peak music power output. So apparently, depending on how you measure amplification power, 5 watts per channel RMS can also be considered 150 watts PMPO. No wonder consumers are getting so frustrated! Why did the FTC stop its enforcement of the power-rating rule? How can we help get things back under control and get the standards back up to snuff? Or doesn't anyone care anymore!?

 

[gene]

I am not sure how much the maximum power usage specification matters.
I'd like to see THD+N at 1 watt (and less) and minimum power usage which matters when you are worried about heat in the equipment rack.

Also, signed

- Rich

Max power consumption is very useful in determining how big of a power supply the unit has. You can then guesstimate ACD power from that number.

 

[Swerd]

In the current environment, there isn't a good chance of the FTC passing a regulatory anything. It's not a matter of education, it is a matter of will.

I agree with shadyJ. It's a matter of will, political will. If the FTC had enough funds to enforce all its regulations, things might be different. But things being what they are, there is little will among politicians to do that.

I signed anyway.

 

[Schrodinger23]

Max power consumption is very useful in determining how big of a power supply the unit has. You can then guesstimate ACD power from that number.

Nice article. Hopefully Sound United will step up.


I could be wrong, but it looks like there is a typo in the first sentence of the last full paragraph. Replace "formerly" with "formally"?

 

[RichB]

Emotiva does have some reasonable specifications for multi-channel, although they do have the one-channel driven nonsense.

https://emotiva.com/collections/amps/products/xpa-7-gen3

• Power Output: 300 watts RMS/channel; 20 Hz – 20 kHz; THD<0.1%; 8 Ohms; one channel driven.
  550 watts RMS/channel; 20 Hz – 20 kHz; THD<0.2%; 4 Ohms; one channel driven.
  300 watts RMS/channel; THD<0.1%; 8 Ohms; two channels driven.
  490 watts RMS/channel; THD<0.1%; 4 Ohms; two channels driven.
  200 watts RMS/channel; THD<0.1%; 8 Ohms; ALL SEVEN channels driven.
• Power Bandwidth (at rated power; 8 Ohm load): 20 Hz to 20 kHz (+ / – 0.1 dB).
• Broad Band Frequency Response: 5 Hz to 80 kHz +0/-2 dB
• THD + noise: < 0.005%; at 100 watts RMS; 1 kHz; 8 Ohms.
• Signal to Noise Ratio (8 Ohm load):> 117 dB; ref FTC rated power; unbalanced input (A-weighted).> 91 dB; ref 1 watt; unbalanced input (A-weighted).

- Rich

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Count me in as Signed.

 

[Verdinut]

It's OK to publish accurate low THD + N levels, but they have to be stated for the full 20-20K frequency range. Otherwise, they don't mean much.

Some high-end manufacturers, Parasound is one of them, don't specify over what frequency range the THD levels of some of their amps:

https://www.parasound.com/a21+.php

 

[Kvn_Walker]

I'm very aware of how power ratings can differ greatly. I recall once purchasing a small low-power stereo system from Philips to use as a travel system when my wife and I would go on business or vacation and stay in hotel rooms. I checked the specifications in the owner's manual. It listed two (2) different figures for "output power." The first was "2×5 watts RMS," which was normal for an inexpensive unit like this. The second read "150 watts PMPO," which I assume stands for peak music power output. So apparently, depending on how you measure amplification power, 5 watts per channel RMS can also be considered 150 watts PMPO. No wonder consumers are getting so frustrated! Why did the FTC stop its enforcement of the power-rating rule? How can we help get things back under control and get the standards back up to snuff? Or doesn't anyone care anymore!?

I still remember that PMPO garbage as far back as the 1980's when I was in high school. Oy, 5000 Watts from a boombox running on 6 D cell batteries!

Marketeers know one thing as fact: big(ger) numbers sell merchandise. Why sell a 75W receiver when you could sell a 125W receiver, even though it's the same exact item?

 

[sven1olaf]

The largest issue I have with the current standard (representing 2 ch driven as ACD) is the clearly disengenuous advertising/marketing.

The general populace has no idea that the 7 channel AVR they just bought is not rated at 125W ACD, just at 125W 2 ch driven. The forward facing push to present the max number of channels available on the product should be consistent throughout the spec sheet.

This has, and continues to, blow my mind. The market just doesn't care about ensuring customers are able to actually enjoy the product to its fullest. Many customers are underpowering the breadth of their installs (or at least missing necessary head room) under the growing demands of multi-channel audio formats, and this deceptive marketing practice surely is at the root.

#jumps off soapbox

 

[Da5id]

I was happy to sign your petition and donate 10 bucks. I was around during the 70s when 10,000 W car stereo tape players were all the rage. I believe these claims were based on peak power rather than RMS. In any event, I just bought an AVR from Denon yesterday. I did notice that some vendors were advertising <8 ohm one channel driven specs. Even my KEF LS50s are 8 ohm speakers. And I don't listen to any single-channel content. So even someone relatively uninformed can see that these are useless specifications. Actually I didn't know how useless specs were revived until you explained that the old regulations only apply to stereo amplifiers. What an eye-opener. You should have discussion like "how many watts you need." I'm going to look. And maybe emphasize that there is not much difference in volume between 95 W and 105 W given the logarithmic relation of watts to perceived sound.

 

[M Code]

Gene should be commended to try and bring order to the power output disclosure bunk that has been running rampant for many, many years. Now that United Audio controls (6) brands looks like a good place to start.
IMHO.. However 1 factor that will be challenging to control are the power output disclosures done on corporate websites.. Since these are typically global, check closely the specs for the Euro versions U will find find DIN power or power into 2 Ohms or 4 Ohms but no mention of frequency or THD %..

Just my $0.02...

 

[gene]

I was happy to sign your petition and donate 10 bucks. I was around during the 70s when 10,000 W car stereo tape players were all the rage. I believe these claims were based on peak power rather than RMS. In any event, I just bought an AVR from Denon yesterday. I did notice that some vendors were advertising <8 ohm one channel driven specs. Even my KEF LS50s are 8 ohm speakers. And I don't listen to any single-channel content. So even someone relatively uninformed can see that these are useless specifications. Actually I didn't know how useless specs were revived until you explained that the old regulations only apply to stereo amplifiers. What an eye-opener. You should have discussion like "how many watts you need." I'm going to look. And maybe emphasize that there is not much difference in volume between 95 W and 105 W given the logarithmic relation of watts to perceived sound.

Uggh i wish it didn't have a donate option. I'm not even sure who gets that money or what change.org does with it. Thanks for supporting our movement though.

 

[WookieGR]

Putting honest power ratings on the specs only makes Sony and the other non Sound United companies look all that much more appealing as they continue fudging their numbers.

 

[Verdinut]

Those sales marketing tactics are close to being some sort of misrepresentation which should be subjected to applicable rules enacted by the FTC.
IMO, it seems that the only way to resolve the problem would be to have the FTC get seriously involved, as the matter has to do with consumer's protection and the banning of misleading specifications figures.
With the current situation, the biggest fake figures appeal more to the ordinary consumer who has no friggin knowledge on audio equipment. And we know who benefits from it.

 

[Ponzio]

I'm on board, just signed. Let's hope they're listening.

 

[lovinthehd]

Uggh i wish it didn't have a donate option. I'm not even sure who gets that money or what change.org does with it. Thanks for supporting our movement though.

Yeah the 20 other petitions and the money request I just bypassed since there was no indication that it would be coming to AH...

 

[lovinthehd]

I wonder if @Dennis Murphy might be enticed to share his views of FTC getting involved based on his experiences there....

 

[highfigh]

When I did car audio, amplifier ratings were very, very loose. Sometimes, we referred to the specs as 'Sony Watts', 'JBF' or 'WLS'. JBF stands for 'Just Before Fire' and WLS stands for 'When Lightning Strikes'.

 

[gene]

Yeah the 20 other petitions and the money request I just bypassed since there was no indication that it would be coming to AH...

Yeah the 20 other petitions and the money request I just bypassed since there was no indication that it would be coming to AH...

I don't see an option to delete the donation crap either. Seems like a money making scheme by Change.org. I really just started it there as a focal point to get signatures. My apologies.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't see an option to delete the donation crap either. Seems like a money making scheme by Change.org. I really just started it there as a focal point to get signatures. My apologies.

I'm somewhat familiar with the ways these things work via third parties so no big worries, unless ya want to do it in-house....