Definitive Technology Speakers - ARE THEY THAT GOOD?

J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
The simple fact is that Def Tech makes excellent speakers (whether judged in absolute terms or relative to price.) People who put them down don't make any sense. Is it just snobbery? Is it that they have a different brand that they are afraid Def Tech will make look bad? Certainly nobody who has ever actually heard them can say they are bad. (Not to therir taste, perhaps, but that is a different matter. For example, Klipsch are not to my taste, but I still acknowledge that they are good speakers.)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You are making an assumption that resonance is purely associated with build quality. Build quality and the firmness of the speaker enclosure is one resonance factor. However, a second resoance factor is the actual speaker and the shape of the speaker cavity. if the cabinet is such that the damping does not attentuate properly.
Hmm...So even if a speaker has perfect "build quality", it could still have resonance issues?
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
You are making an assumption that resonance is purely associated with build quality. Build quality and the firmness of the speaker enclosure is one resonance factor. However, a second resoance factor is the actual speaker and the shape of the speaker cavity. if the cabinet is such that the damping does not attentuate properly.
id fathom to say that is build quality is meaning all materials involved not just the cabniet itself. Speaker design should be around the drivers as much as volume with mass.
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
In that case, you must not be aware of any. Their cabinets are extremely solid and well built. Minimizing cabinet resonance is one of their design goals and, just like their other design goals, they achieved it.
Have you ever measured the resonance of a DefTech speaker or compared to a reference, non-resonant source? I have done the latter and a large amount of resonance was audible to me.

This statement makes it clear to me you have little understanding of what is required to properly combat resonance, in its fullest, and most likely what cabinet resonance actually sounds like.

I've read a bunch of DefTech reviews from Home Theater Mag, Sound & Vision/Stereo Review, Ultimate AV Mag, Audio-Video Revolution, and one from The Audio Critic. Pretty much all of them say that DefTech speakers have great build quality. I assume that to have great build quality, there must not be much cabinet resonance issues?

In fact, Home Theater Mag gave the BP7000SCs the same build quality as the Paradigm Reference Signature S8.

BP7000SC: 96
Paradigm: 96
B&W 803D: 98

If cabinet resonance is a major issue, wouldn't build quality also be an issue?
This is a very measurement was taken in a very subjective way. It seems that build quality will change drastically depending on ones definition of the word. I associate build quality with only aesthetics. Design quality is where I personally would catagorize features that effect resonance.

The simple fact is that Def Tech makes excellent speakers (whether judged in absolute terms or relative to price.) People who put them down don't make any sense. Is it just snobbery? Is it that they have a different brand that they are afraid Def Tech will make look bad? Certainly nobody who has ever actually heard them can say they are bad. (Not to therir taste, perhaps, but that is a different matter. For example, Klipsch are not to my taste, but I still acknowledge that they are good speakers.)
This is a very subjective statement whose whole validity is based on a specific person's definition of good. I would not classify Klipsch or DefTech as good, but my standards are well above the typical. For example, one of the best commercial monopolar speakers in production, the B&W 802D, would be considered vastly superior by most, but to me, due mainly to the radiation pattern, these speakers are only suited to near-field listening as they physically cannot replicate a live performance accurately enough to suite my tastes. Now lets take a speaker such as the MBL 111B these omnipolar speakers would fulfill most of my criteria for complete accuracy of reproduction, but are hard to find and cost 17k a pair.

Please bear in mind these are examples for perfection in fidelity if one has a budget, as in reality I make suggestions for best in a price class to fill these criteria. At no point will DefTech or Klipsch be found due to their poor objective ratings as they relate to human perception.
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
In that case, you must not be aware of any. Their cabinets are extremely solid and well built. Minimizing cabinet resonance is one of their design goals and, just like their other design goals, they achieved it.
The joke thread is in the steam vent. Hilarious though...

SheepStar
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Definitive Tech speakers do exhibit cabinet resonance. I have no doubt that Def Tech tries to keep resonance out of their cabinets, but it's not cost no object. There are plenty of what seem to be well built speakers to the eye (quality parts, materials, finish) that would make the average reviewer of a subjective magazine say they have stellar build quality, but they still have a resonance factor as does most any mass market speaker system.

The MBLs and B&Ws that Avaserfi mentioned above are examples of a rare breed of speakers that exhibit very low resonance factors. But if you look around you will find these kind of speakers aren't exactly easy to come by and they aren't cheap either.
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
After this wekend's A/B test, I find that I still prefer my Cambridge S30s (in spite of the fact that the Def Tech BP10Bs cost 4X as much and extend fully 35Hz deeper.) Def Techs are very good speakers, but the CAs are awesome!:cool: (Note: part of it was that the DTs have too much bass for music in my room. I got them set up so that it was clean and detailed, not muddy at all, but it was still too much and tended to overwhelm the other frequencies. One of the many excellent qualities of the CAs is that all the frequencies are in perfect balance.)
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
After this wekend's A/B test, I find that I still prefer my Cambridge S30s (in spite of the fact that the Def Tech BP10Bs cost 4X as much and extend fully 35Hz deeper.) Def Techs are very good speakers, but the CAs are awesome!:cool: (Note: part of it was that the DTs have too much bass for music in my room. I got them set up so that it was clean and detailed, not muddy at all, but it was still too much and tended to overwhelm the other frequencies. One of the many excellent qualities of the CAs is that all the frequencies are in perfect balance.)
Were you not able to eq some of the bass out, or adjust it with tone controls?
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
Were you not able to eq some of the bass out, or adjust it with tone controls?
I use direct mode. My integrated does not have eq (nor would I want it to, as this is a purist music system.) If I did use the tone control, it would only effect part of the bass spectrum (and not necessarily the part that my room needs.)
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
I see. Well glad to hear you are happy with your Cambridge setup. Do you have a link to the speakers you are using?
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
If I ever upgrade, it will be to Mordaunt Short bookshelves. I have just learned that they are the "sister" company to Cambridge Audio, and should therefore share the same awesome engineering as the S30s, as well as the perfect synergy with CA electronics.
 
GlocksRock

GlocksRock

Audioholic Spartan
They sure are a lot smaller than the BP10s, I can see why they don't have as much bass. As long as you are happy with them, that's all that matters, they are nice looking.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
LOL, synergy.:D

Joe, when you first arrived here you had a lot of questions. You where like a sponge, you certainly didn't get this "synergy" nonsense from us.;)
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
LOL, synergy.:D

Joe, when you first arrived here you had a lot of questions. You where like a sponge, you certainly didn't get this "synergy" nonsense from us.;)
I got that concept from What HiFi. Since they are the ones who gave the Cambridge system its well-deserved 5-star review (in which they emphasized the fact that the speakers and electronics were designed together as a system), I am inclined to take their word for it. (It was also through them that I discoverd the relationship between CA and MS.)
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
it was through playboy that I discovered the relationship between silicone and some women;)
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
The joke thread is in the steam vent. Hilarious though...

SheepStar
I keep searching for the alledged "joke" you are referring to. Nothing funny here. What you quoted is merely a statement of fact.
 
H

Hwypirt

Audioholic Intern
They sure are a lot smaller than the BP10s, I can see why they don't have as much bass. As long as you are happy with them, that's all that matters, they are nice looking.
You said a mouthfull brother. +1
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
Hey Joe. Look down. Your standing in sheep droppings. Jokes on you... ;)

Fred
 
TheFactor

TheFactor

Audioholic Field Marshall
After about 2 months of reading, researching and demos my two choices that fit into my budget and sounded the best were Paradigms and "DEF techs "out of the ones I looked at and considered " IT WAS A TUFF CHOICE.To say Im really happy with my Paradigms is a understatement. But its pretty much a matter of quality and personal preference I believe. My Paradigms are very soothing to me for music and sound spectacular when watching blue-rays. I just wish I could afford both because I definately would get def techs too for another room. Good luck in your choice .
 
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