Definitive Technology Speakers - ARE THEY THAT GOOD?

[GlocksRock]

I love JL subs, I've used them in my cars for years, but I currently have an eD sub, but I do use JL XR series highs. Does anyone know if JL plans to start making high end home audio speakers to compliment thier subs?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sorry to the OP for this off-topic post, but as you can see here, the links above are downloads made available from Quart. You can't get any more honest than that.

Actually DefTech has downloads to FIFTY-FIVE LINKS for 3rd Party Reviews/ Spec Measurements, so you can't get any more honest than that.

And, those DefTech links are for reviews in ENGLISH, not GERMAN, so all of us can ACTUALLY READ them!

 

[zumbo]

Actually DefTech has downloads to FIFTY-FIVE LINKS for 3rd Party Reviews/ Spec Measurements, so you can't get any more honest than that.

And, those DefTech links are for reviews in ENGLISH, not GERMAN, so all of us can ACTUALLY READ them!

I never said DT was dishonest. Also, I didn't recommend Quart. In fact, I was not the one who brought Quart into this thread.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No subwoofer Def Tech makes will be as accurate as the JL audio subwoofers mentioned.

Not to refute your statement, but just how "accurate" can a subwoofer get?

I mean going back to the human threshold, can we actually discern/distinguish the subwoofer "accuracy"?

As long as the subwoofer gives you that tight and powerful bass, how does "accuracy" factor into the overall sound quality when we can't even hear the 10% (or MORE) distortion in the lower frequencies?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I never said DT was dishonest. Also, I didn't recommend Quart.

Oh...well, hmm...I knew that.

 

[Dezoris]

Not to refute your statement, but just how "accurate" can a subwoofer get?

I mean going back to the human threshold, can we actually discern/distinguish the subwoofer "accuracy"?

As long as the subwoofer gives you that tight and powerful bass, how does "accuracy" factor into the overall sound quality when we can't even hear the 10% (or MORE) distortion in the lower frequencies?

Yeah with all due respect the sub in most our systems is doing one thing.
Bass between 20hz-80hz. At those frequencies its more about room placement and acoustics for accurately getting the bass transmitted properly.

From the subs I have heard, there is absolutely no difference is accuracy in a properly set up room. The only issue is if it can hit those low frequencies without bottoming out.

 

[Midcow2]

So I shouldn't buy a Bose sub and be tri-baked?

IMHO, no sub from any company can touch JL. I just don't have the coin.

That was a joke.

To the guy who asked about the twice-bake potatoe. Bake thep otatoe normally, scrape-out of peeling. Put aready baked-potatoe back in shell with mixture of cheese, shallots, crushed garlic, cottage cheese and bacon bits. Then bake it again.

By the way, in those days you had to listen to Bose 9 with 9. Each Bose 901 had 9 speakers and after 9 beers they start to sound pretty good, especailly when the slogan was "Make Love, not War"

Okay now my real question, "Would you chose the JL Audio Fathom f113 Subwoofer (MSRP $3,300) over the SVS PB13-Ultra (MSRP $1599)" ?

Is it really worth twice as much? And really if a subwoofer is approximately 1/5 to 1/4 the cost of your HT, it must be really, really nice to have a $13,200- $16,500 HT system.


Cheers (Mic Ultra),

 

[GlocksRock]

I would buy two SVS PB13-Ultra's before I bought one JL F113, I would try to talk SVS into giving me a discount for buying a pair, especially since shipping alone would be like $200 for the pair. Not to knock JL, but I know how good SVS subs sound, and the Ultra is suppossed to sound better, and hit the lows harder than the plus series. Not sure the JL's sound would be worth the extra money, even though I'm sure it does sound fantastic.

 

[zumbo]

Okay now my real question, "Would you chose the JL Audio Fathom f113 Subwoofer (MSRP $3,300) over the SVS PB13-Ultra (MSRP $1599)" ?

Yes, but I can't afford one.

Is it really worth twice as much?

See above response.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Okay now my real question, "Would you chose the JL Audio Fathom f113 Subwoofer (MSRP $3,300) over the SVS PB13-Ultra (MSRP $1599)" ?

According to Tom Nousaine, the $1,700 Epik Conquest kicks all their butts!

http://epiksubwoofers.com/C2.pdf

It even kicked the $15,000 Velodyne DD-1812's butts!

http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/blog/?p=17

 

[Midcow2]

Sometime in the distant future ... I see a sub

I would buy two SVS PB13-Ultra's before I bought one JL F113, I would try to talk SVS into giving me a discount for buying a pair, especially since shipping alone would be like $200 for the pair. Not to knock JL, but I know how good SVS subs sound, and the Ultra is suppossed to sound better, and hit the lows harder than the plus series. Not sure the JL's sound would be worth the extra money, even though I'm sure it does sound fantastic.

You see I have already pushed the envelop with the boss I have made some great upgrades to my system recently the most recent BP7002s and CLR3000(on-order) . The ProSub100 will have to do for awhile longer. Buyt I forsee A Def Tech Super Cibe or and SVS PB13-Ultra or many just a SCS-PB12-Plus.

 

[Demonster]

Thank you all for the help - After the audition - NEXT

I have all Def Techs.

I have demo'd several speakers in this class since I own the BP10s I can't say they are the best speaker but they are also not the worst.

One thing they do have going for them as with most definitives is their bass response. Providing a lot of bass response from a small package.

While in some cases they are not the most lifelike for 2 channel audio they certainly are much more flexible in terms of placement.

If I have people over watching music of movies the person sitting in the center of the room is not the only one who gets balanced sound which is a big positive for the bi-polar design vs. the direct designs.

For those that may find this thread helpful for initial evaluation of the Definitive Speakers the above quote is pretty accurate and here is what I found (felt) after auditioning these speakers in a room dedicated solely to the definitive line. First let me say that other than spending too much money over the last 20 years I am no audiophile; just another obsessed consumer.

The receiver was set to direct mode to eliminate any prior tinkering that originally had me thinking that they set the internal treble EQ on the receiver WAY too high. The subwoofer on the three 7000 series that I listened to were all set to 50% level (straight up) initially. The listening volume was varied from background levels you might want when talking over dinner to all the way up to what my ears could handle with the high frequency overload.

Here was my experience. The treble response on the units was in my opinion OK but overwhelming at high levels (I think they call this fatiguing). The bass (i.e. internal powered subwoofers) were adjustable by LFE gain and high levels were needed to overpower the treble for my ears.

The reason I wanted to look at these speakers was the "extra" bass I could get around my room which seems to be a sinkhole for it. What I found was the extra bass was very much there at high LFE gains, the mid range was pretty washed out and the trebles were ear splitting.

I tried everything I knew how to do to get these speakers tuned to the environment that they were in and improved the sound only marginally by increasing the LFE gain, to reducing the treble output on the receiver and increasing the "midrange" output. The farther I got away from the speakers in the room the better they sounded; but two channel audio was mediocre. Surround wasn’t evaluated. and I had to use the amps internal EQ to gain the mids; not direct.

Increasing the LFE to 100% seemed to improve the treble overload I was experiencing and SIGNIFICANTLY improved the bass response; but the mids seemed to be seriously lacking on the mid 7000 model I was considering. As a reflecting speaker it dawned on me that the showroom which ONLY had Definitive models had curtains right behind the speakers. Ah-hah - this must be the problem. After opening the curtains and exposing a wall to the "reflecting" sound it made the ear splitting treble response worse and almost painful. It seemed to wash out the mid range even worse – go figure. Probably a poorly designed room?

The positives were I could here them in the whole room . . . I think that the experience is definitely in the ear of the beholder. I think I will be going back to evaluating true audiophile speakers again – not the latest and greatest. Thank again to all of you for your feedback. I will certainly be posting another thread after heading some of the great advice I received here.

THANKS FOR THE HELP
AV RAT - THANK YOU FOR THE HELP
EXIT - I AM LOOKING AT ORBS FOR WIFE IN THE LIVING ROOM NOW, SIMILAR TO THE GALLOS I THINK BUT CHEAPER, AND PUTTING THE BOSE IN THE GARAGE NEXT TO THE CABINET WITH THE 901 SERIES 2 WHICJH ARE FOR SALE BY THE WAY - ORIGINAL OWNER.

Now let's get on with the stoning!

 

[zumbo]

Now that it seems the answer is no, as I would agree with, find a B&W dealer. From what I have found, B&W is one of the very few readily available B&M brands that offer the sound quality I enjoy. There are many brands that compare, but dealers are few and far between. B&W has a pretty decent dealer list.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/

 

[zumbo]

Also, Audioholics does sell MB Quart. If you find your ear likes B&W, I am certain you will like Quart. I you are close enough, I wouldn't have a problem with you auditioning mine. PM me if you are interested. (They are not for sell, just offering an audition.)

http://store.audioholics.com/search?xBrand=MB+Quart&xPriceFrom=0&xPriceTo=0&xSort=&xPage=10000

 

[abboudc]

Okay now my real question, "Would you chose the JL Audio Fathom f113 Subwoofer (MSRP $3,300) over the SVS PB13-Ultra (MSRP $1599)" ?

Street price on the JL 113 isn't 3300. I've seen them for $2400-2700. Many people have chosen the JL. There are other considerations--size...

 

[mike c]

According to Tom Nousaine, the $1,700 Epik Conquest kicks all their butts!

http://epiksubwoofers.com/C2.pdf

It even kicked the $15,000 Velodyne DD-1812's butts!

http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/blog/?p=17

unfortunately, that's just like saying i can kick every little kid's *** around my block.

the DD1812 was never designed for output. so saying it was beaten by the conquest in output is like ... yeah.

 

[mike c]

I would buy two SVS PB13-Ultra's before I bought one JL F113, I would try to talk SVS into giving me a discount for buying a pair, especially since shipping alone would be like $200 for the pair. Not to knock JL, but I know how good SVS subs sound, and the Ultra is suppossed to sound better, and hit the lows harder than the plus series. Not sure the JL's sound would be worth the extra money, even though I'm sure it does sound fantastic.

they do have discounts for pairs. (email RonS) but they can't do anything about the shipping.

i considered the JL F113 for my other theater once, but since I knew I needed two of anything, I went for the dual SVS'es (due to price)

if money was of no consequence ... i would have gotten dual F113's and I would have kept the dual SVS'es. (because that HT was a bit tight on space, and the JL's size would have been fantastic)

 

[Demonster]

show him the pictures mike. . . . .

 

[mike c]

show him the pictures mike. . . . .

of me kicking little kid's butts?

i think audioholics have had too much pics from me already. (of the subs)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The receiver was set to direct mode...The treble response on the units was in my opinion OK but overwhelming at high levels (I think they call this fatiguing). The bass (i.e. internal powered subwoofers) were adjustable by LFE gain and high levels were needed to overpower the treble for my ears.

First of all, good luck on finding your new speakers. Definitely try to audition as many as possible and bring your own CDs.

With Direct Modes (or Pure Direct), all EQs, Tones, DSPs, Bass Management, etc., are bypassed and you get approximately the ORIGINAL music content. Thus, if the original music has significant amount of high frequencies, you will get significant amount of high frequencies in an "accurate" or flat-response speaker.

That is why a lot of people actually prefer a "high-frequency roll-off", instead of a flat frequency response speaker?

My impression is that these speakers will have frequency response in which after about 13 to 16 kHz, the curve with smoothly and gradually decline to -3dB, -4dB, -5dB, -6dB, etc. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

According to Home Theater Magazine, the BP7000SC has a response curve of 22 Hz - 20 kHz +/-3dB, which is pretty accurate and flat. There is absolutely no ROLL-OFF in the high frequencies. In fact, it stays above +0dB from 12 khz-20khz. At 14 - 20 khz, it is around +3dB.

So you might want to look for speakers with a high-frequency roll-off (the curve goes DOWN (below +0 dB) gradually starting in the high frequencies.

In comparison, if you look at the graph on the MB Quart Alexxa S1, there is a huge roll-off or dip in the curve around 12-13 kHz of about -15dB. This is NOT accurate or flat. However, it may decrease the volume of the high frequencies. This is like using tone controls or EQs to decrease the TREBLE. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

If you look at the B&W 803D, you will see a slight roll-off.
http://hometheatermag.com/floorloudspeakers/1005bw/index2.html

At 2-6 kHz, it is @ -4dB and at 20 kHz, it is @ -6dB.