Decisions... Hsu STF-2 or SVS PB10-ISD?

[Buckeyefan 1]

Buckeyefan,

The JBL was in no way, HT-wise or 2-ch musically, the equal of the little STF-1. Maybe your comment would more appropriately have been that I was that "unimpressed with the JBL". It would play 'louder', but the output was little more than boomy rumble. So in one sense, you're correct. The Hsu is more 'musical', yes. In terms of sound amplitude, and this relates to another recent post I made (my not understanding the need for HUMONGOUSAURUS subwoofereri, ala Mulesters Monsters), both play much louder than I, or any normal human wants to listen to for more than a couple of "Hey y'all, listen to THIS!!" moments. (I have a very large room, btw.) As I said, the JBL played deeper by a little, as well. But in a head to head.....fuhgetaboutit. STF-1 wins hands down. How loud can you set your 'reference' level and stay sane?

At this time, it is my intention to utilize both subs (the hoped for SVS and the STF-1) in my setup, but that is subject to change. I still need that subsonic depth (that the JBL did not provide), and I believe that the SVS will give that without stealing away the punch of the STF-1.

And one last thought...the JBL, the SVS PB-10 (and perhaps the STF-2???) are front-firing. I definitely prefer the down-firing subs. They appear, to me at least, to be less directional. I always was quite aware of the location of the JBL, no matter its placement.

Thanks for the response. I've yet to demo the JBL sub, or for that matter, an HSU. It's too bad that JBL is boomy, otherwise it would prove to be a good deal. Sergeant.

 

[Tomorrow]

Now I'm REALLY curious to compare the STF-2 with my buddy's bigger Paradigm PW2200, which we both love (though I feel it's a touch sloppy on music, could be his room or placement of course).

(BTW It's going to be a bit before I have the $$ to order the sub. When I do I'll add my own $.02 to this thread, after break-in of course. [/QUOTE]


Einstein,

I have a good buddy with the Paradigm. I would say even IT is not as expressive as my STF-1. (Oh oh...here it comes. He agrees, btw.) But his sub's lack of performance could be due to his room dynamics. It's difficult to do a head-head, as his house is a few hundred miles from ours. I'm not sure, cuz I expected more out of the unit. Sometimes I wonder if mebbe I just don't have some unique, one-of-a-kind Super STF-1. Hmmm.

Glad to see you paying attention to the other threads. I think the valves and rings finally got seated over on that one.

Good sub hunting

 

[j_garcia]

Einstein – welcome to the board!


J_Garcia – I tried to send you a pm but can’t figure it out.

I looked at the pix in the link you posted. Forget the subs, who makes the spkr stand you have the bookshelf spkr sitting on in the other pix? Size of the plate on top of the stand? Would you recommend those stands? If so, where did you get them? Thanks!

I leave PM off, because I tend to not check them Those stands are great. I got them from Parts Express. Their price went up recently, but I feel they are still a great value - the good news is they have a deal right now with free shipping for them, which is good because they are pretty heavy to ship. They are 26lbs each without filling, quite sturdy and solid. Part #240-744 currently $112 a pair. I also have the medium mass stands, which are less expensive. Not as good looking, but just as solid.

My VTF-2 was the older version, but output wasn't the VTF-2s problem (even the old one had no problem playing loud), it was extension. I loved this sub, but I could hear it struggle with anything lower than ~25Hz with movies and, even some of the music I listen to. Bass is tight and clean above 25Hz, and is what most would call musical, IMO. The PB-10, on the other hand, goes right down to 20Hz without batting an eye, while still giving me about 85% of the musical capability of the VTF-2, which is why I kept the PB-10.

One more thing to consider, "chest thumping" bass tends to be somewhere in the 40Hz-80Hz region, and one of the reasons why some average subs give you that feeling is because they are either boosted or have a big hump somewhere in this region. One of the reasons you don't quite get this feeling from an SVS is because they are so incredibly flat in response, and it actually takes a bit to get used to hearing what ACCURATE bass sounds like. No bloat, no boom, just bass.

Having said that, if you have the room and need the speaker level inputs, you might even consider stepping up to the 25-31PCi (in 22-31 configuration, as I think someone mentioned). This guy doesn't have the extension of the PB-10, but it moves more air giving it a meaner rumble.

As I mentioned before, if you aren't looking for extension and need the speaker level inputs, then I'd say the STF-2 is going to be an excellent choice.

The 2200 is a great sub too, but for the MSRP price, well, the SVSs will be getting my order. IMO, it's on par with something like the PB-12, maybe PB-12ISD/V.

The S120 is probably one of JBLs best subs, actually. Got a good review by Nousaine. I haven't heard this one myself.

I'll be very curious to see what happens when the HO option comes out for the VTF/STF-2, because if it really gets those subs down into the mid teens, they will be some serious contenders. I've been anxiously awaiting this since they first announced it some time ago.

 

[Takeereasy]

The Paradigm PW-2200 will crush the STF-1 and stf-2 in every way conceivable except for the fact that it might not have as "fast" a response. Maybe you prefer that effect over deeper, louder, all encompassing, wall shaking bass that still sounds pretty darn good with music. I don't. The PW-2200 is a great sub. I recently listened to the entire HSU lineup except the STF-1. The STF-2 was ok, the SFT-3 is a tank and will give the PW-2200 a good go and save you some cash while doing it, The VTF-2 is a great 10" sub, and the VTF-3 is the best of them all by a good margin. If I could pick up the sub I wanted today it would likely be a VTF-3 MKII. Then a toss up between the Paradigm PW-2200 and the the STF-3. There is no 8" sub that does what I want: Hit darn close to 20hz and put out some real feel it in the chest bass that still sounds good with music.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable but the STF-1 isn't in the same league as the PW-2200. Especially pricewise. The PW-2200 is 2.5X the cost for a reason. I really like HSU, but even they would confess to being outgunned when comparing the STF-1 to the 2200.

 

[silversurfer]

j garcia,
My thought was with the new amps in the VTF2-MK2 and STF-2, the subs would not necessarily play louder, but be more dynamic, tighter, cleaner.

 

[j_garcia]

That guy, IMO, doesn't need to be any tighter I haven't heard the new amp and driver, so I don't really know what the MkII can do, but the cabinet is still tuned the same, so I wouldn't expect a change in the extension - the HO option will take care of that though... I think they tuned it higher for a reason, and that was to give them the sound above 25Hz that this sub has. I was actually shocked when I went to the VTF-2 from an old Carver sub (pre-Sunfire) with roughly similar specs (10", 150w). The VTF-2 had no problem outperforming the Carver, both in output and tightness.

I have to mention one thing additionally though, the PB-10 actually blends more easily with my mains in my room slightly better than the VTF-2 did.

 

[Tomorrow]

I'm not trying to be disagreeable but the STF-1 isn't in the same league as the PW-2200. Especially pricewise. The PW-2200 is 2.5X the cost for a reason. I really like HSU, but even they would confess to being outgunned when comparing the STF-1 to the 2200.

Takeereasy,

I agree that the PW-2200 is a fine sub and should have performed better. My apologies if my post came across as touting the STF-1 over the Paradigm. That's why I believe, and said, that my friend's room dynamics/system setup was the probable culprit in it's mediocre performance. But before commenting on the STF-1, you should listen to one. I have heard both, and only report what I've heard. I'd think that the cannon effect that Mulster is looking for is what I appreciate most, so you may have a valid point about my sound preference. But I also said that I am lacking the wallup from the subsonic levels those other subs are capable of, that the STF-1 is not. That's why I want the PB-12 (or now I'm reconsidering the Hsu line). I definitely am NOT saying the STF-1 is a superior speaker to the 2200, or the PB-10 or 12 or any of them. In not an idiot (yet...tho' I'm getting up there in age, lol). You may also have noted from other posts, that I have large passive woofers in my mains. These, of course, provide an assist to the little Hsu.

 

[Takeereasy]

I'm not in any way trying to put you down, but I really feel that for the Paradigm to have given such a poor accounting of itself there must have been a positioning/calibration problem. Please don't take what I've said as offensive. I really do believe that you have a valid point. Little drivers do have that extra something (punch) when it comes to music. I'm thinking about keeping my 10" polk to use as a kind of a mid driver. It really can't go below 40hz very well but it sounds great with music believe it or not. I'm going to give it a try with my new sub i'm hoping to get by Monday. In a room as small as mine I forsee big issues, but I need to find out for sure.

 

[Tomorrow]

new sub?

Takeereasy,

I may have missed it (that age thing again). What sub are you getting? No offense taken, btw. Thanks.

 

[silversurfer]

That guy, IMO, doesn't need to be any tighter I haven't heard the new amp and driver, so I don't really know what the MkII can do, but the cabinet is still tuned the same, so I wouldn't expect a change in the extension - the HO option will take care of that though... I think they tuned it higher for a reason, and that was to give them the sound above 25Hz that this sub has. I was actually shocked when I went to the VTF-2 from an old Carver sub (pre-Sunfire) with roughly similar specs (10", 150w). The VTF-2 had no problem outperforming the Carver, both in output and tightness.

I have to mention one thing additionally though, the PB-10 actually blends more easily with my mains in my room slightly better than the VTF-2 did.

HAHA, OK, that's fair. Maybe punchier and more dynamic. I have read where VTF-3 owners put the new amp into their older VTF-3's and got more dynamics and punch, but I have not read an older VTF-2 owner getting the new amp.

 

[Takeereasy]

rjbudz, the sub I am most likely getting is a Cadence X-Sub, not low but loud. You didn't miss it, I just didn't post it. (must be that thing where I think everyone knows what I'm talking about even though I haven't mentioned it yet ) The only reason I haven't ordered the Xsub yet is because I have a lead on a better sub for a better price. Have to wait till Monday to decide 100% on purchase.

 

[Tex-amp]

The 100 watt difference really doesn't mean much. Design efficiency is much more important. It takes doubling the watts to achieve a 3dB increase in volume if everything else stays the same. Put that 300 watt amp in the Hsu and get a 1.5 dB gain or the 200 in the SVS and 1.5dB loss. The SVS is going lower and louder by size of the cabinet and length of the port. I'd agree with silversurfer that the Hsu has better sound quality over it's whole range.

Order both and send back the one you like less.

 

[mulester7]

.....Gentlemen, there is understandably a tendency here to endorse the sub one owns currently or has heard....there's nothing wrong with that and HOORAY for being pleased with what you own or have heard and maybe are working toward....BUT!!....seperates ARE employed above the sub-level with woofers, midranges, and tweeters....why not lean to the concept of seperates in the sub/low bass range?....why not entertain the notion of subs in the corners that take things to realism concussion for Home Theater, AND, have small accurate front-firing small cannons for punch and pop localized to the mains for music mainly?....the overall doesn't have to be LOUD, either, just balanced and covering EVERY segment or section....individual attenuation and clean roll-offs are the key, bearing in mind boomy, mud, or confusion comes from phase overlaps....

 

[Tomorrow]

.....Gentlemen, there is understandably a tendency here to endorse the sub one owns currently or has heard....there's nothing wrong with that and HOORAY for being pleased with what you own or have heard and maybe are working toward....BUT!!....seperates ARE employed above the sub-level with woofers, midranges, and tweeters....why not lean to the concept of seperates in the sub/low bass range?....why not entertain the notion of subs in the corners that take things to realism concussion for Home Theater, AND, have small accurate front-firing small cannons for punch and pop localized to the mains for music mainly?....the overall doesn't have to be LOUD, either, just balanced and covering EVERY segment or section....individual attenuation and clean roll-offs are the key, bearing in mind boomy, mud, or confusion comes from phase overlaps....

Well put, Mulester. I would sharpen your opening sentence, though, with "Because you selected the sub you now own, you probably like it more than the others you heard, affordability notwithstanding."

 

[mulester7]

Well put, Mulester. I would sharpen your opening sentence, though, with "Because you selected the sub you now own, you probably like it more than the others you heard, affordability notwithstanding."

.....RJBudz my friend, your sharpening is noted and quite in order....who wouldn't like to have Krells in each corner?.....

 

[brian32672]

.....RJBudz my friend, your sharpening is noted and quite in order....who wouldn't like to have Krells in each corner?.....

Hey, I got you started on those 35,000.00 Krells. LOL

EDIT::: At 420 pounds for one subwoofer...??? Hum, where am I going to put that......
Oh, BTW I'll take 6 of those, please bring in the forklift....

 

[mulester7]

Hey, I got you started on those 35,000.00 Krells. LOL

.....yeah, you really know how to hurt a guy with an email....I can't believe some guys have $200,000 systems in their homes....

 

[brian32672]

.....yeah, you really know how to hurt a guy with an email....I can't believe some guys have $200,000 systems in their homes....

?200,000.00 Try 1 Million Plus........

 

[brian32672]

Here look over at this post....
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11637&highlight=million

 

[mulester7]

?200,000.00 Try 1 Million Plus

.....mercy, with people homeless and hungry probably within one mile....I firmly believe there will come a day of reckoning.....