Dayton Ultimax 12 Build

[MrBoat]

I wasn't too far off on model but not familiar with it (I did familiarize myself with the 3808, as I just bought ParadigmDawg's, it's in transit now). Not sure what you mean by bypassing the avr and using pure direct....assume you mean you're just not using any dsp in the avr? Personally I don't use pure direct mode for most content. Just a matter of preference....

Still not sure what you're looking for particularly as far as what to use for dsp based on what other people in their rooms are doing at whatever level they listen at. Personally I'd turn off the HPF and maybe try the Behringer dynamic eq feature in the amp (from the little I've read about its use in that amp). The best way is to get a measurement mic and use REW to see what's going on rather than use your ears alone, then apply eq accordingly (and REW can apply a suggested/calculated eq to your Behringer amp).

I have also started to explore building my own amps. They are also building preamps, and accommodations for subwoofers. Mostly just wanting to know.

Maybe I just "think" I have great sound. Now if someone were to ask me how, it would be nice to be able to explain to them how I did it, or what exactly I was trying to do.

As far as graphic EQ, it's actually pretty convenient if you are sourcing from a computer. Tweeters a bit too bright, or dull, subtle adjustments at the graphic EQ can remedy such things, even from one recording to the next. I can understand an auto feature giving a general room correction, but does this happen continuously, and for all kinds of music?

Here is my current general setting for Jazz fusion, which is mostly well recorded. Some of the more horn heavy cuts, I may adjust the highs down a tad. While with some older, classic or hard rock, the mid range bands may get some work. These are not drastic adjustments. Ideally, I would like to incorporate a hardware version of graphic EQ with more bands.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

They get avrs or make compromises Some of the 2ch crowd eschews subs altogether. This article addresses the subject somewhat.

Good read. Laughed my way through comments like usual.

The other thing 2ch guys do is treat the room.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have also started to explore building my own amps. They are also building preamps, and accommodations for subwoofers. Mostly just wanting to know.

Maybe I just "think" I have great sound. Now if someone were to ask me how, it would be nice to be able to explain to them how I did it, or what exactly I was trying to do.

As far as graphic EQ, it's actually pretty convenient if you are sourcing from a computer. Tweeters a bit too bright, or dull, subtle adjustments at the graphic EQ can remedy such things, even from one recording to the next. I can understand an auto feature giving a general room correction, but does this happen continuously, and for all kinds of music?

Here is my current general setting for Jazz fusion, which is mostly well recorded. Some of the more horn heavy cuts, I may adjust the highs down a tad. While with some older, classic or hard rock, the mid range bands may get some work. These are not drastic adjustments. Ideally, I would like to incorporate a hardware version of graphic EQ with more bands.

Even better would be a parametric eq, like you have in your Behringer amp, then you can more precisely shape the eq. Try this explanation.

 

[MrBoat]

They get avrs or make compromises Some of the 2ch crowd eschews subs altogether. This article addresses the subject somewhat.

I started back in audio as a "2 channel" guy and I was not sold on subs. You managed to convince me otherwise, rather easily at that. I dove right into subwoofers and built one in short order and it has been possibly, the best overall adjustment.

Still, when looking at audio forums, the most troubleshooting manages to be around AVR settings and bass management.

The other thing I have noticed is, a lot of criticism of speakers. Terms like, too warm, too bright etc. I even heard that about the Tempests, basically lumping them in with other horn type speakers and people flatly giving up on them almost immediately.

Also, the secondhand market is awash with otherwise quality items that have been condemned, likely due to people just not trying anything beyond auto correction/EQ.

Sometimes there are gems hidden beyond the obvious or easy cures. True hi-fi quality existed before AVRs. It should be even more possible now. Especially if one can employ some of the old with the new. I can understand a need for compromises at times, but not just with putting all of one's faith in what is automatic, or the easy way out.

 

[MrBoat]

Even better would be a parametric eq, like you have in your Behringer amp, then you can more precisely shape the eq. Try this explanation.

The filter settings I mentioned are indeed in the parametric EQ. I have since turned off the HPF in the "Filter/Crossover" section. What started me there is, that's where the main gain control to the amp is.

 

[MrBoat]

They get avrs or make compromises Some of the 2ch crowd eschews subs altogether. This article addresses the subject somewhat.

Thank you for that article. That is basically where I started when I got my subwoofer.

 

[lovinthehd]

I started back in audio as a "2 channel" guy and I was not sold on subs. You managed to convince me otherwise, rather easily at that. I dove right into subwoofers and built one in short order and it has been possibly, the best overall adjustment.

Still, when looking at audio forums, the most troubleshooting manages to be around AVR settings and bass management.

The other thing I have noticed is, a lot of criticism of speakers. Terms like, too warm, too bright etc. I even heard that about the Tempests, basically lumping them in with other horn type speakers and people flatly giving up on them almost immediately.

Also, the secondhand market is awash with otherwise quality items that have been condemned, likely due to people just not trying anything beyond auto correction/EQ.

Sometimes there are gems hidden beyond the obvious or easy cures. True hi-fi quality existed before AVRs. It should be even more possible now. Especially if one can employ some of the old with the new. I can understand a need for compromises at times, but not just with putting all of one's faith in what is automatic, or the easy way out.

LOL I didn't even know about true subs until 20 years into it and until I can get a set of JTR 215RTs or something as capable, I'll keep using subs. Glad its working out for you!

AVRs made it confusing with the large/small bullshit when using a sub. It just confuses people and there's a lot of bad info out there, too.

I've never been much for taking too seriously the bright/warm kind of subjective descriptions of speakers by others myself (who knows what rooms they're based on), nor do I take many people's opinions of food very seriously (many people have very different tastes than I do). The poor horn/PA speakers definitely gave them a reputation, it was also what I thought until reading so many positive comments about the SEOS horns like you ended up with; now I've got some JBLs with horn tweeters myself after reading similar nice things about them.

I think good measurement tools, whether automatic or not, are a good thing.

 

[MrBoat]

LOL I didn't even know about true subs until 20 years into it and until I can get a set of JTR 215RTs or something as capable, I'll keep using subs. Glad its working out for you!

AVRs made it confusing with the large/small bullshit when using a sub. It just confuses people and there's a lot of bad info out there, too.

I've never been much for taking too seriously the bright/warm kind of subjective descriptions of speakers by others myself (who knows what rooms they're based on), nor do I take many people's opinions of food very seriously (many people have very different tastes than I do). The poor horn/PA speakers definitely gave them a reputation, it was also what I thought until reading so many positive comments about the SEOS horns like you ended up with; now I've got some JBLs with horn tweeters myself after reading similar nice things about them.

I think good measurement tools, whether automatic or not, are a good thing.

I agree with everything you have said/are saying. I also agree about the measurement tools. Whether I will get to that, I do not know. I would hate to get too influenced by that. Other than the Behringer's DSP settings, surely I have come across something similar to what an AVR would appoint as far as EQ.

I just turned on the music again (been working on those Classix) and it does indeed sound as good today as yesterday so it wasn't from being tone drunk last night.

I have also managed to screw up the sound in the recent past. That is where it all started. It would still be nice if there was a discussion about optimizing external DSP with subs for music only. 2.1/2 is a good option for music in small spaces. Even going as far as specifics for different effects or enhancements and with hands on approaches. Near field goals yet being another good reason, I think. Hopefully someone chances across this thread who has a lot of experience with the Behringer DSP amps etc who has tried this.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I think most of the threads you'll find involving DSP will be accompanied by talks of measurements. In the old days, we EQ'd by how it sounded at the time.(yep, me too, love messing with an EQ) Now it's so easy to get REW and and a umik-1 and go for flat, that most of the conversations have gone that way. Plus the fact that EQs are just not that easy to find. As far as optimizing sub blend for music, the first goal is a good XO setting and making sure phase is set as to not create a dip in the XO region. That's where measurements come into play. Every person hears a little different, and you might not be so aware of the dip, until you fix it. Problem is, you can't know to fix it unless you know it's there. That's also why you find so many topics on bass management and XO settings. These settings determine a great deal of the quality of playback. Since you care enough to have built a nice sub and mains, I'm thinking it's a matter of time until the curiosity gets you, and you start measuring. Lol.
Criticism of speakers imo, is just based on differences in hearing, and the secondary market you mentioned is spot on. People don't take time anymore to get the best out of what they have. Plus people buy into phoolery, and don't realize you can't just throw stuff in a room and have it be amazing. My 7.3 system is by many standards, pedestrian. But I've done every possible thing I can(within my parameters) to get the best performance with my gear. I think you're the same, otherwise you wouldn't be here! Sorry for droning on, I was trying to hit a few points that came up. This thread kinda went crazy.

 

[MrBoat]

I think most of the threads you'll find involving DSP will be accompanied by talks of measurements. In the old days, we EQ'd by how it sounded at the time.(yep, me too, love messing with an EQ) Now it's so easy to get REW and and a umik-1 and go for flat, that most of the conversations have gone that way. Plus the fact that EQs are just not that easy to find. As far as optimizing sub blend for music, the first goal is a good XO setting and making sure phase is set as to not create a dip in the XO region. That's where measurements come into play. Every person hears a little different, and you might not be so aware of the dip, until you fix it. Problem is, you can't know to fix it unless you know it's there. That's also why you find so many topics on bass management and XO settings. These settings determine a great deal of the quality of playback. Since you care enough to have built a nice sub and mains, I'm thinking it's a matter of time until the curiosity gets you, and you start measuring. Lol.
Criticism of speakers imo, is just based on differences in hearing, and the secondary market you mentioned is spot on. People don't take time anymore to get the best out of what they have. Plus people buy into phoolery, and don't realize you can't just throw stuff in a room and have it be amazing. My 7.3 system is by many standards, pedestrian. But I've done every possible thing I can(within my parameters) to get the best performance with my gear. I think you're the same, otherwise you wouldn't be here! Sorry for droning on, I was trying to hit a few points that came up. This thread kinda went crazy.

By all means, drone on! I like to hear other experiences/opinions.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

By all means, drone on! I like to hear other experiences/opinions.

I appreciate that. Now I have to think of something interesting. Lol
Where did you get the dts studio sound EQ? I can't find a download for it. Dts' website is useless.

 

[MrBoat]

I appreciate that. Now I have to think of something interesting. Lol
Where did you get the dts studio sound EQ? I can't find a download for it. Dts' website is useless.

It came with windows 10. I had another one for Linux that may have been for windows also but I don't recall.

Equalize APO was another, IIRC.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

It came with windows 10. I had another one for Linux that may have been for windows also but I don't recall.

Maybe I should dig. My laptop came with a Dolby program. Looks similar. My win 10 was an upgrade, and my hard drive took a dump right after so when I got up and running again I haven't had time to play. I'm thinking of an htpc in my bedroom. I have a traditional HT in there now but that tv is a 32" sharp that's also the pc monitor. I'd like to build some better bookshelf speakers and be able to EQ them manually. Although mcacc is pretty good...

 

[MrBoat]

Maybe I should dig. My laptop came with a Dolby program. Looks similar. My win 10 was an upgrade, and my hard drive took a dump right after so when I got up and running again I haven't had time to play. I'm thinking of an htpc in my bedroom. I have a traditional HT in there now but that tv is a 32" sharp that's also the pc monitor. I'd like to build some better bookshelf speakers and be able to EQ them manually. Although mcacc is pretty good...

The software EQ is great if your speakers are good to start with. I had to find this DTS version in the start menu somewhere. It wasn't right up front. Or maybe I found it with the sound card settings. It's all a blur. This all happened since right before Christmas until now.

 

[MrBoat]

I appreciate that. Now I have to think of something interesting. Lol
Where did you get the dts studio sound EQ? I can't find a download for it. Dts' website is useless.

I have learned that this is an addition to HP computers as part of the Realtek audio driver, or, Realtek HD audio with DTS, more specifically. Some people have issue with it and want to remove it. Works fine for me both with speakers or headphones.

I

 

[lovinthehd]

I appreciate that. Now I have to think of something interesting. Lol
Where did you get the dts studio sound EQ? I can't find a download for it. Dts' website is useless.

A couple years ago on another forum some guy talked about a DTS mixing software suite and gave me a link; pretty sure that had an eq as well as mixing capabilities. Some brief searches just now didn't see anything obvious. Didn't transfer it to my current machine but probably archived it somewhere but maybe it was only a 30day trial, dont really remember....I'll see what I can dig up.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

That'd be cool. I googled, and found a bunch of EQ applications for pc. Not sure if any are good or not.

 

[lovinthehd]

That'd be cool. I googled, and found a bunch of EQ applications for pc. Not sure if any are good or not.

Have you considered Jriver? I understand it has pretty comprehensive eq...no personal experience tho.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have learned that this is an addition to HP computers as part of the Realtek audio driver, or, Realtek HD audio with DTS, more specifically. Some people have issue with it and want to remove it. Works fine for me both with speakers or headphones.

I

I have a laptop with Dolby stuff on it. Didn't even know it was active until I was getting messed REW measurements. Back in the day I was an EQ tweaker. As I got older, I turned into a set it and forget guy. I learned to appreciate songs for how they were recorded instead of tweaking the EQ and finding that I made them all sound the same. Lol. I do use this for diff headphones though, and have tried it on my rig since I AirPlay a lot of music though my network.
ONKYO HF Player by ONKYO CORPORATION
https://appsto.re/us/4jf-P.i

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Have you considered Jriver? I understand it has pretty comprehensive eq...no personal experience tho.

I have but I don't want to pay for it. Squeak, squeak... it does look amazing. This whole htpc is just being hatched in my brain cell so I don't have any clear direction yet. It's winter STILL! And my brain is trying to think of something other than my boat, or hot rod.