Dayton Audio MK-442T Floor-standing Speaker Review

[shadyJ]

Dayton Audio has followed up their popular MK402 bookshelf speaker with a floor-standing speaker version: the MK442T. The MK442T is more than just the MK402 with an extra woofer and larger cabinet; Dayton Audio decided to try something different and has used a transmission line enclosure to shore up bass frequencies instead of the standard vented design used by virtually every other speaker in this category. Transmission line designs are not very common, and at Dayton Audio's asking price of $228/pair, totally unheard of. Read our full review of the MK442T to see how Dayton Audio managed to pull this off.

READ: Dayton Audio MK-442T Tower Speaker Review

 

[lovinthehd]

@shadyJ link isnt working....

 

[shadyJ]

@shadyJ link isnt working....

I know, the review isn't up yet. We put the threads up before the review so we can have a discussion thread for the review to immediately link to when it goes live. It will up tonight. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[ryanosaur]

Really cool to see something like this... a little down the ladder from where a lot of us spend our time. Really appreciate the fact you gave these and the Mono's some time in the sun.

Part of me wants to get a pair and attack them with some extra Poly-Fill! Another part of me wants to experiment with those Woofers as Mids in a 3-way design, much the same as the little 5" Zaph Audios in the Mini-Phils. Too often we overlook drivers with less-than-premium cost, and it's a bit of a shame.
Thanks, Shady!

 

[hk2000]

Is it just me, or is this design missing another divider- one between the woofers and the existing divider? They can draw arrows all they want, without another divider the back wave is not going to follow those arrows!

 

[ryanosaur]

Is it just me, or is this design missing another divider- one between the woofers and the existing divider? They can draw arrows all they want, without another divider the back wave is not going to follow those arrows!

No. if the drawing is accurate, they appear to be shooting for a tapered line which should have a larger closed end than open end. Perhaps they did something different, but an extra divider would grossly alter the performance of the line. It could be straight, tapered, or flared, but changing the cross sectional area would ruin the necessary geometry and tuning.
The arrow diagram is a little silly, but Quarter-Wave acoustics is different than a ported box. The low frequency waves will resonate through that line, and the placement of the woofers is designed to minimize the third harmonic, at least, and hopefully the fifth. Those will be the most destructive to the acoustic performance. Damping the line will do the rest, which as Shady indicated, might not have been done quite as well as it could be. Regardless, the idea they are hoping to convey is close enough... the entire line will fill with the acoustic energy, and hopefully, the tuning and geometry of the line, the damping applied, etc, sum to deliver on the promise that a good TL can deliver.

 

[shadyJ]

+1 what Ryanosaur said. The length of the line is what is important here and also the physical placement of the opening more so the the driver location. The length determines the tuning and harmonics.

 

[TLS Guy]

+1 what Ryanosaur said. The length of the line is what is important here and also the physical placement of the opening more so the the driver location. The length determines the tuning and harmonics.

Another nice review James.

I think these are the bass drivers. If you can confirm that I will model it tomorrow. I have a view on the uneven bass response. I don't think the problem is under damping. The impedance curve shows only the slightest hint of a second impedance curve. It is almost completely suppressed. So under damping is very slight. I have no idea if the diagram of the pipe anatomy is accurate. If it is, the taper is insufficient. That could contribute to a peak of the fundamental. Also there are no turnover boards shown. If these were deleted on grounds of cost that was a poor decision in my view. This would be a set up for internal reflections.

At a guess from the impedance curve it looks as if Fp is around 70 Hz. That would put the third harmonic at 210 Hz and fifth at 350 Hz.

The Qts of those drivers is a little on the high side but not out of bounds for a TL. However the combined VAS of the two drivers is only 5 lt. So part of the reason for the shallow taper may have been to keep Vp in line.

Anyhow they have achieved decent bass extension. A ported design would have given a pretty sharp cut off at 60 Hz. So they have added another half octave by use of the transmission line. Can you comment further in the quality of the bass? Are tympani sharp and percussive without boom? Is there absence of bloat on the bass strings? Your report on the sensitivity is exactly what would be expected from two of those drivers.

You seemed to really like these speakers and so I have to believe they are outstanding value for money. If the bass is as it should be for a TL, then the use of s sub becomes problematic unless it is also a TL. The whole advantage of a TL is not just bass extension but superior bass quality.

Here is a TL with 3:1 taper and correctly positioned panels at the turn to keep the line expansion volume correct without discontinuity.

Driver position to minimize third and fifth harmonics.

Anyhow if you can confirm I have guessed the right drivers? If so I will do a model.

 

[shadyJ]

Another nice review James.

I think these are the bass drivers. If you can confirm that I will model it tomorrow. I have a view on the uneven bass response. I don't think the problem is under damping. The impedance curve shows only the slightest hint of a second impedance curve. It is almost completely suppressed. So under damping is very slight. I have no idea if the diagram of the pipe anatomy is accurate. If it is, the taper is insufficient. That could contribute to a peak of the fundamental. Also there are no turnover boards shown. If these were deleted on grounds of cost that was a poor decision in my view. This would be a set up for internal reflections.

At a guess from the impedance curve it looks as if Fp is around 70 Hz. That would put the third harmonic at 210 Hz and fifth at 350 Hz.

The Qts of those drivers is a little on the high side but not out of bounds for a TL. However the combined VAS of the two drivers is only 5 lt. So part of the reason for the shallow taper may have been to keep Vp in line.

Anyhow they have achieved decent bass extension. A ported design would have given a pretty sharp cut off at 60 Hz. So they have added another half octave by use of the transmission line. Can you comment further in the quality of the bass? Are tympani sharp and percussive without boom? Is there absence of bloat on the bass strings? Your report on the sensitivity is exactly what would be expected from two of those drivers.

You seemed to really like these speakers and so I have to believe they are outstanding value for money. If the bass is as it should be for a TL, then the use of s sub becomes problematic unless it is also a TL. The whole advantage of a TL is not just bass extension but superior bass quality.

Here is a TL with 3:1 taper and correctly positioned panels at the turn to keep the line expansion volume correct without discontinuity.

Driver position to minimize third and fifth harmonics.

Anyhow if you can confirm I have guessed the right drivers? If so I will do a model.

Yes, the driver is the TCP-115-8.

If you know how to make this speaker better for a minimal cost increase, Dayton might be interested in your solution. In our review of their MK402, we complained about the hot treble. Dayton has recently released a version of the MK402 that addresses that concern, the MK402X, and it looks like they are clearing out the regular MK402. So you can see that Dayton wants to make good and affordable products, but you can imagine the compromises they have to make in order to get costs so low. But if you have a solution to smooth out the bass response without too much added expense, who knows, maybe they can use your design tips in a 'MK442T-X' model.

As for more comments on the bass quality, I don't remember the bass that well, but I do remember that it didn't sound as uneven as it looked on the graphs. We may be doing a youtube review of the MK442Ts, and if so, we can listen for the quality that you described in that review.

Yes, I did like these speakers, they aren't perfect, but pretty darn good for the price. Keep in mind that I grade these things with cost as a consideration, so I look at what else could be had for the same price and evaluate these speakers accordingly. What other floor-standing speakers can you get around the same cost? The Pioneer SP speakers, Polk T series, Sony Core speakers, certain things from BIC and a few other cheapies. I don't think I would trade these for any of those, and those are all a bit more expensive.

 

[hk2000]

No. if the drawing is accurate, they appear to be shooting for a tapered line which should have a larger closed end than open end. Perhaps they did something different, but an extra divider would grossly alter the performance of the line. It could be straight, tapered, or flared, but changing the cross sectional area would ruin the necessary geometry and tuning.
The arrow diagram is a little silly, but Quarter-Wave acoustics is different than a ported box. The low frequency waves will resonate through that line, and the placement of the woofers is designed to minimize the third harmonic, at least, and hopefully the fifth. Those will be the most destructive to the acoustic performance. Damping the line will do the rest, which as Shady indicated, might not have been done quite as well as it could be. Regardless, the idea they are hoping to convey is close enough... the entire line will fill with the acoustic energy, and hopefully, the tuning and geometry of the line, the damping applied, etc, sum to deliver on the promise that a good TL can deliver.

Okay, that's a good explanation, thanks. Still, that diagram is silly

 

[carlthess40]

I think for the price of these is great
Like some has said about the specs. They can be very misleading. I looked over many other speaker at this price and they all have lower quality crossovers and most if not all of them are half the weight, so that Should help with sound quality, nothing like a crap cab to color the sound in a bad way with buzz and cab flex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes, the driver is the TCP-115-8.

If you know how to make this speaker better for a minimal cost increase, Dayton might be interested in your solution. In our review of their MK402, we complained about the hot treble. Dayton has recently released a version of the MK402 that addresses that concern, the MK402X, and it looks like they are clearing out the regular MK402. So you can see that Dayton wants to make good and affordable products, but you can imagine the compromises they have to make in order to get costs so low. But if you have a solution to smooth out the bass response without too much added expense, who knows, maybe they can use your design tips in a 'MK442T-X' model.

As for more comments on the bass quality, I don't remember the bass that well, but I do remember that it didn't sound as uneven as it looked on the graphs. We may be doing a youtube review of the MK442Ts, and if so, we can listen for the quality that you described in that review.

Yes, I did like these speakers, they aren't perfect, but pretty darn good for the price. Keep in mind that I grade these things with cost as a consideration, so I look at what else could be had for the same price and evaluate these speakers accordingly. What other floor-standing speakers can you get around the same cost? The Pioneer SP speakers, Polk T series, Sony Core speakers, certain things from BIC and a few other cheapies. I don't think I would trade these for any of those, and those are all a bit more expensive.

Well Shady, I have good news. This speaker is capable of very significant improvement. As I suspected the pipe volume is too small and the taper not adequate.

These speakers model very well in a TL. You can get and F3 of 50 Hz, in a TL when Fs is half an is about a quarter octave higher. 6db point is 40 Hz and it still has useful output to the 30 Hz region being about 18 db down. The pipe works very well with driver using only 1 mm of it 4 mm excursion at full power. The model shows how well a TL properly aligned can control cone excursion.

The pipe volume Vp is 50% undersized. Now the designers may well not have been aware that Vp has to be calculated. This was realized only 19 years ago. Until then pipe length was though to be all important. The realization the Vp had to account for driver Vas was a huge breakthrough and explained why design of TLs had been so hit and miss with a lot of suboptimal designs. The taper for these speakers needs to be 4/1. To get this and the required volume would mean making the speaker a total of 14.25" deep if 3/4" MDF was used, which it should. The turn should be properly turned over with the correct internals at the top. The port should be 3" high.

Here are some screen shots of the model.

FR, Impedance, cone excursion and group delay.

Model showing only 1 mm cone excursion.

response limited to 500 Hz

The model specs.

This design change would of course increase cost, as there would be more material and shipping and packing costs. All these multiply up. However this speaker would be a bargain at three times the cost. The acoustic response of those drivers is excellent. They only cost only $12 a piece!

This is a tantalizing design and if produced to the correct dimensions could be not only outstanding value but among one of the best and most listenable speakers at any price. It shows you can get very respectable bass performance from 4" drivers. I can get similar good bass to 40 Hz with my vintage 4" JW drivers. So I have known for 60 years at least that you can get good bass, and I mean good high quality bass from 4" drivers.

I would strongly advise Dayton the market an higher end version of this speaker. It would likely be a very good seller.

If any member wants to build this speaker I would strongly encourage them to do so.

 

[Russdawg1]

Well Shady, I have good news. This speaker is capable of very significant improvement. As I suspected the pipe volume is too small and the taper not adequate.

These speakers model very well in a TL. You can get and F3 of 50 Hz, in a TL when Fs is half an is about a quarter octave higher. 6db point is 40 Hz and it still has useful output to the 30 Hz region being about 18 db down. The pipe works very well with driver using only 1 mm of it 4 mm excursion at full power. The model shows how well a TL properly aligned can control cone excursion.

The pipe volume Vp is 50% undersized. Now the designers may well not have been aware that Vp has to be calculated. This was realized only 19 years ago. Until then pipe length was though to be all important. The realization the Vp had to account for driver Vas was a huge breakthrough and explained why design of TLs had been so hit and miss with a lot of suboptimal designs. The taper for these speakers needs to be 4/1. To get this and the required volume would mean making the speaker a total of 14.25" deep if 3/4" MDF was used, which it should. The turn should be properly turned over with the correct internals at the top. The port should be 3" high.

Here are some screen shots of the model.

FR, Impedance, cone excursion and group delay.

Model showing only 1 mm cone excursion.

response limited to 500 Hz

The model specs.

This design change would of course increase cost, as there would be more material and shipping and packing costs. All these multiply up. However this speaker would be a bargain at three times the cost. The acoustic response of those drivers is excellent. They only cost only $12 a piece!

This is a tantalizing design and if produced to the correct dimensions could be not only outstanding value but among one of the best and most listenable speakers at any price. It shows you can get very respectable bass performance from 4" drivers. I can get similar good bass to 40 Hz with my vintage 4" JW drivers. So I have known for 60 years at least that you can get good bass, and I mean good high quality bass from 4" drivers.

I would strongly advise Dayton the market an higher end version of this speaker. It would likely be a very good seller.

If any member wants to build this speaker I would strongly encourage them to do so.

I was actually looking at these drivers for a design, seeing the incredible performance for such a low cost. I did not think of modeling them in a transmission line enclosure but after seeing this, it’s regained my attention and I may build this!

Thanks!

 

[carlthess40]

Well Shady, I have good news. This speaker is capable of very significant improvement. As I suspected the pipe volume is too small and the taper not adequate.

These speakers model very well in a TL. You can get and F3 of 50 Hz, in a TL when Fs is half an is about a quarter octave higher. 6db point is 40 Hz and it still has useful output to the 30 Hz region being about 18 db down. The pipe works very well with driver using only 1 mm of it 4 mm excursion at full power. The model shows how well a TL properly aligned can control cone excursion.

The pipe volume Vp is 50% undersized. Now the designers may well not have been aware that Vp has to be calculated. This was realized only 19 years ago. Until then pipe length was though to be all important. The realization the Vp had to account for driver Vas was a huge breakthrough and explained why design of TLs had been so hit and miss with a lot of suboptimal designs. The taper for these speakers needs to be 4/1. To get this and the required volume would mean making the speaker a total of 14.25" deep if 3/4" MDF was used, which it should. The turn should be properly turned over with the correct internals at the top. The port should be 3" high.

Here are some screen shots of the model.

FR, Impedance, cone excursion and group delay.

Model showing only 1 mm cone excursion.

response limited to 500 Hz

The model specs.

This design change would of course increase cost, as there would be more material and shipping and packing costs. All these multiply up. However this speaker would be a bargain at three times the cost. The acoustic response of those drivers is excellent. They only cost only $12 a piece!

This is a tantalizing design and if produced to the correct dimensions could be not only outstanding value but among one of the best and most listenable speakers at any price. It shows you can get very respectable bass performance from 4" drivers. I can get similar good bass to 40 Hz with my vintage 4" JW drivers. So I have known for 60 years at least that you can get good bass, and I mean good high quality bass from 4" drivers.

I would strongly advise Dayton the market an higher end version of this speaker. It would likely be a very good seller.

If any member wants to build this speaker I would strongly encourage them to do so.

Have you sketched up any plans for the box ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TLS Guy]

Have you sketched up any plans for the box ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No but it would be very easy. They have the pipe length correct. So the closed end needs to be 9" and the open 3". The turn needs to be 6" all the way round the top of the internal, with the corner pieces to keep the turn constant. Then you just increase the depth of the box to accommodate the changes. The fill it with half a pound of Acousta Stuff of Polyfill per cu.ft internal volume evenly spread but keeping it a few inches from the port. I use polyfill from Walmart. It is very cheap.

 

[ryanosaur]

@TLS Guy
Its super-cool that you took the time to share all of that!!! Its also very nice to see that Dayton got pretty close to "getting it right!" Thank you for for all the information.

Now, I just need to learn how to determine open-end and closed-end areas (So and Sl?), and Vp on my own!

Best!
R

 

[shadyJ]

Well Shady, I have good news. This speaker is capable of very significant improvement. As I suspected the pipe volume is too small and the taper not adequate.

These speakers model very well in a TL. You can get and F3 of 50 Hz, in a TL when Fs is half an is about a quarter octave higher. 6db point is 40 Hz and it still has useful output to the 30 Hz region being about 18 db down. The pipe works very well with driver using only 1 mm of it 4 mm excursion at full power. The model shows how well a TL properly aligned can control cone excursion.

The pipe volume Vp is 50% undersized. Now the designers may well not have been aware that Vp has to be calculated. This was realized only 19 years ago. Until then pipe length was though to be all important. The realization the Vp had to account for driver Vas was a huge breakthrough and explained why design of TLs had been so hit and miss with a lot of suboptimal designs. The taper for these speakers needs to be 4/1. To get this and the required volume would mean making the speaker a total of 14.25" deep if 3/4" MDF was used, which it should. The turn should be properly turned over with the correct internals at the top. The port should be 3" high.

Here are some screen shots of the model.

FR, Impedance, cone excursion and group delay.

Model showing only 1 mm cone excursion.

response limited to 500 Hz

The model specs.

This design change would of course increase cost, as there would be more material and shipping and packing costs. All these multiply up. However this speaker would be a bargain at three times the cost. The acoustic response of those drivers is excellent. They only cost only $12 a piece!

This is a tantalizing design and if produced to the correct dimensions could be not only outstanding value but among one of the best and most listenable speakers at any price. It shows you can get very respectable bass performance from 4" drivers. I can get similar good bass to 40 Hz with my vintage 4" JW drivers. So I have known for 60 years at least that you can get good bass, and I mean good high quality bass from 4" drivers.

I would strongly advise Dayton the market an higher end version of this speaker. It would likely be a very good seller.

If any member wants to build this speaker I would strongly encourage them to do so.

Very cool analysis. I will bring this post to Dayton Audio's attention. They will be interested although they may not willing to produce a model that is twice as large. Still, that doesn't sound like a particularly difficult build considering it's a TL design.

 

[Ponzio]

Amateur Hour here with quite a few stupid questions to follow.

I currently own a pair of Salk SongTowers QWT’s, which I really enjoy, and I was wondering if …

Would or does Dayton offer the relatively handsome cabinets without the drivers? I imagine not from my initial research on the site.

If not, I was thinking of purchasing the speakers anyway and replace the drivers with some ScanSpeak or Vifa drivers. Which brings me to my 2nd question; would the existing crossover work with one of these drivers, like the ScanSpeak D2905-950000 tweeter? Or would I just be wasting my money?

Keep in mind that I have no experience whatsoever in building speakers. I just want to pop out the existing drivers & replace them with similarly sized drivers.

Thanks

 

[TLS Guy]

Amateur Hour here with quite a few stupid questions to follow.

I currently own a pair of Salk SongTowers QWT’s, which I really enjoy, and I was wondering if …

Would or does Dayton offer the relatively handsome cabinets without the drivers? I imagine not from my initial research on the site.

If not, I was thinking of purchasing the speakers anyway and replace the drivers with some ScanSpeak or Vifa drivers. Which brings me to my 2nd question; would the existing crossover work with one of these drivers, like the ScanSpeak D2905-950000 tweeter? Or would I just be wasting my money?

Keep in mind that I have no experience whatsoever in building speakers. I just want to pop out the existing drivers & replace them with similarly sized drivers.

Thanks

Different drivers would require a different pipe length and volume. The crossover would need to be redesigned. Every crossover is unique to any given combination of drivers.

 

[Ponzio]

Different drivers would require a different pipe length and volume. The crossover would need to be redesigned. Every crossover is unique to any given combination of drivers.

Got 'ya. One of the regrets I have in coming to this hobby late in life is that I never built a pair of speakers myself. Everything I own is off the shelf.