Custom speakers, need help choosing tweeters

[Mlistens03]

I am thinking about building home made bookshelf speakers, but I need help choosing a tweeter. I plan to use Dayton Audio reference drivers (specifically the Dayton rs-100-4 4” mid and Dayton rs180-4 7” woofer). I am open to any suggestions that are on parts express, and are above $20 and below $100. I have had good experience with both planers as well as ring radiators, and I think I would prefer one of these two options. But if there is anything you think would be better let me know. I would rather go with the ring radiator, but Dayton doesn’t make one, and I don’t know if the brands that do are any good. I could also use help on deciding a cabinet size and crossover points, but we can wait on that

Thanks for any help!

 

[lovinthehd]

Why not use a proven design to start? Designing a box and crossover from scratch for three random drivers isn't a small task exactly.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Hard to beat the Tympani / Peerless XT25 series. Ring Radiator, meets your criteria, and an excellent performer in it's own right. Parts Express sells them (as well as the usual suspects, Maidsound, etc).

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Why not use a proven design to start? Designing a box and crossover from scratch for three random drivers isn't a small task exactly.

+1
Highly recommend you to build existing DIY design, like Jeff Bagby's Tango which uses Dayton rs180-8 7” woofer.
As designing a speaker, I give you a crude car analogy:
1) Full range/Single driver - like driving car with automatic trans, lane assist etc...
2) Two way: Stick shift, no power wheel assist, no electronics what so ever - still manageable to drive by somewhat experienced drivers
3) Three way: Ancient steam Car, where everything is a stick or lever and nothing is where you expect to be. Don't even think of trying to drive one without significant knowledge and experience.

 

[lovinthehd]

Was wondering later, perhaps this is an active tri-amp design? Would be good to know more about the overall plan...and would be better moved to the diy subforum, too.

ps Missed the additional post about using pre-made crossovers. NO! Much better to use a specific design....

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

If you build Tango speakers as I've linked above and following it to the letter, you will get speakers which sounds great.
I think that you are lacking experience in speaker design and building and approaching it like plumbing, how hard could it be?
Unfortunately, the answer is yes, very hard to design great speakers without significant experience.
I recommended you to start with existing speakers design. If you already bought the drivers, maybe PE would let you swap the 4ohm version you have, for 8ohm per Jeff's original design for Tango.

Don't give up. Speakers building could be fun and exciting. Just because we discouraged you from designing a 3-way speaker without any experience, this doesn't mean that you shouldn't go on with it. Ask for help and adjust your confidence accordingly. Audio designers like Jeff Bagby, Dennis Murphy, and few dozen others are knowledgeable and highly experienced professionals.

This is why then they share their designs, is like giving away a recipe for coca cola.
Use it and enjoy the results.

 

[lovinthehd]

If you want to design speakers from scratch might want to read something like this before starting https://www.amazon.com/Loudspeaker-Design-Cookbook-Vance-Dickason/dp/1882580478

If you follow the plans for an existing design you can do quite well. Look at some of the kits at diysoundgroup.com as well as parts-express.com or madisound.com or meniscusaudio.com. Look at existing projects in our own diy subforum or maybe at diyaudio.com or avsforum.com....

 

[Mlistens03]

But what I am thinking about now is that I already have Polk LSi 25s, and I don’t think these would sound as good as they do. If any of you guys have had experience with the LSi25s though, and you would say these are better, let me know.

 

[lsiberian]

I used the Dayton Dome Midrange for my build. The tweeter I used is no longer in production. I'm intrigued by the Dayton AMT tweeters, but not enough to make a new build out of them. As long as you are willing to fail there is nothing wrong with designing your own speakers, but you have to understand that failure can be part of the process.

 

[Winkleswizard]

To meet/exceed your Polks, you are going to need something more than a RS-180 woofer. Concur that you are likely better off with an existing design. For some good ideas, see here:

http://speakerdesignworks.com/index_page_2.html

Designing a good speaker requires knowledge, measuring equipment and gobs of time. It can be rewarding, if you have a passion for it. For perspective from one of the foresmost designers of our time, check out:

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/Fitz/considerations.htm

Beyond this stuff, it is really useful to know what you think you want and then this forum can help with how. What you like or would change about your current system; other potential requirements (like budget, room size and your application), will help get you better answers faster. For example, do you need a center channel? Do you need or like heavy bass? Are you a critical listener or just want something that is better than average sound?

Hope this helps...

Ww

 

[Mlistens03]

I have decided not to change my current system, however for my computer speakers I have some cheap Boston Acoustics speakers, and I am thinking about making something for my desk. To replace these Boston’s, I probably would only want to spend about $300 total if that’s possible. I would also like to use tymphany peerless ring radiators of that is possible, as I really like the ring radiators in my polks. I want it to have good low end down to around 30 hertz or so, because I don’t listen to deep bass music too much, I more listen to, say Led Zeppelin or The beatles. I don’t know the exact room size, and I can measure later, but it’s probably around 12” by 14” by 12” (this is a guess) but i have angled ceilings, and one corner of the room is cut off and has the door on it. Far from good listening space, but I don’t have anywhere else.

 

[MrBoat]

I built these speakers from the discussion at this thread, and with the little peerless subwoofer, would be a tough speaker to beat for near field listening or a small room. No crossovers other than one 20uF capacitor between the bottom driver and the top one.

Would cost around $70 for the drivers and caps for the main speakers, another $60 or so for the peerless subwoofer driver, about another $150 for the subwoofer plate amp and whatever wood and other assorted hardware adds to it.

 

[Winkleswizard]

The first DIY design that comes to mind is Zaph’s ZD5, but it is pricey. While not the same ring radiator, Jeff Bagby’s Mandolin hits right around your budget. Check out:

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/mandolin-kit-pair-copy/

Both these guys have solid creds for speaker design.

Btw, a bookshelf speaker is not going to get to 30 hz unaided. You will need a subwoofer if you really want to get there and still use smaller bookshelf speakers. You really do not need to get that low for most music; 40 Hz should do...

Ww

 

[Mlistens03]

I built these speakers from the discussion at this thread, and with the little peerless subwoofer, would be a tough speaker to beat for near field listening or a small room. No crossovers other than one 20uF capacitor between the bottom driver and the top one.

Would cost around $70 for the drivers and caps for the main speakers, another $60 or so for the peerless subwoofer driver, about another $150 for the subwoofer plate amp and whatever wood and other assorted hardware adds to it.

Looks nice, but I have had bad experiences with fullrange drivers. Thanks though.

 

[Mlistens03]

The first DIY design that comes to mind is Zaph’s ZD5, but it is pricey. While not the same ring radiator, Jeff Bagby’s Mandolin hits right around your budget. Check out:

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/mandolin-kit-pair-copy/

Both these guys have solid creds for speaker design.

Btw, a bookshelf speaker is not going to get to 30 hz unaided. You will need a subwoofer if you really want to get there and still use smaller bookshelf speakers. You really do not need to get that low for most music; 40 Hz should do...

Ww

I know I don’t need to go that low for most music, but I have a friend who I said a basshead, and he needs to be impressed too. Lol but seriously, 40 hertz will work just fine, me saying 30 was actually a typo, I was on a tablet.
I like the look of that kit, but is that the price for one or two speakers? If it’s for one then it is too much for me, at that price I will buy some used paradigm or B&W speakers.
Thanks again,
Micah

 

[Winkleswizard]

The Mandolin kit price was for a pair, but would still need to build cabinets. If not for you, quality used speakers are worth considering. Notably, if you can buy locally and ensure they are in good operating condition, go for it!

Which model of Boston Acoustics do you have? Perhaps they could be modified with new tweeter?

Ww

 

[Mlistens03]

They are cr75s, but they are not actually mine, they are my dads. I don’t actually have any bookshelf speakers. I was thinking about doing some xover mods to them but he didn’t want me to, so that’s out of question.
I’ve done used many many times before, with anything from Mission 770s to Polk LSis, but I want to build it myself. I’m cool with building my own cabs, so I think I might try and do the kit you sent.
Thanks so much for your help,
Micah

 

[Mlistens03]

Just a quick question, isn’t polymer or graphite or other material cones superior to paper? I noticed that the kit used a paper cone and I thought I would ask thanks again

 

[Winkleswizard]

While cone material does influence the sound, it would be oversimplistic to claim absolute superiority of one material over another. There are many other mechanical aspects that come into play (like cone shape, mass, damping, etc.).

The particular driver in question does come in a coated or uncoated version. Coating can help in higher humidity situations and be a bit more durable. It also usually makes the driver shinier and so may discourage its use in home theater were it will reflect more light. Of course, Aluminum and poly cones are often even shinier.

One of the tradeoffs of building your own speakers is that you are also the repair center. I often buy a spare driver just to have in case one gets damaged or goes NLA.

Ww

 

[Mlistens03]

Ok, good to know. I will definitely be getting the coated version as I have 2 sisters and a St. Bernard who would LOVE to do their best to destroy this. And on top of that I live in Florida, which during the summer can sometimes feel like your almost walking through a pool. Lol
I probably won’t order an extra driver but I will remember the link so I can order one ASAP if needed. I’ve repaired my fair share of speakers so I feel like I can at least to some degree do a good job with being a repair center lol
Where can I source good quality MDF and real wood veneers? And what would be the best match to the Ebony veneer on the LSis?
Edit: that was a stupid question.
Thanks again!