Crossover help

[PENG]

I would not assume that. Audyssey is just plain evil. What I have found is that unless you really lock it out, it wants to return and corrupt your system, like turning Dynamic back on. Why do you need Audyssey anyway? It can only upset a good system.

Because some people are more open minded, and they probably found Audyssey is not plain evil.

By the way, the following explanation of crossovers and the small vs large settings (or similar) has been posted, or mentioned many times on this and other forums. So next time if you are trying to help, maybe try to remember this, or do your own research, but thoroughly, please!

Audyssey Labs March 25, 2011 09:43
MultEQ does not set crossovers.

It simply finds the roll off that each speaker has in the room and where it's placed. The crossovers are set by the AVR maker. There is a benefit in raising the crossover up: the MultEQ filters in the subwoofer channel have 8x more resolution and so will produce a smoother bass response. I would recommend using 80 Hz.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212342423-Changing-the-cross-over-settings-after-running-Audyssey

Audyssey Labs

December 11, 2012 00:10
Hi,
Audyssey doesn't set speakers to Large. Denon does. We recommend that you set speakers to Small if you have a sub. Yes, change them to Small by setting a crossover as you mention. It doesn't have an effect on the filters.
Your subwoofer is turned up too loud. You need to turn it down and run Audyssey again so that you don't hit the AVR limit of level adjustment. Any number other than –12 dB is fine.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347883-Speaker-Trim-Levels

 

[PENG]

Here are my settings

http://imgur.com/a/RQqsOtT

I suggest you set the front left, right and center to 80 Hz. It may not be perfect for your setup but it should be a good starting point. Try that for a few days or so, then you can fine tune it, by ears, increasing it in steps of 10 Hz, to 90, or even 100 Hz. If you tell us what kind of speakers you have, then we may be able to narrow things down a little more.

 

[PENG]

With my Marantz SR5010, I manually set the center channel speaker to large as I have three identical bi-amped front speakers. But Odyssey still indicates that the center speaker is small. I haven't really made serious tests to ascertain whether the manual setting overrides the Audyssey indication though.

If you change it to small manually, then it will be affected by the crossover, i.e. no longer "full band".

From your experience, would the manual setting for the center speaker be cancelled when Audyssey is on? If so, is there a way to correct the situation? At present, the AVR crossover is set to 90 Hz for the surround bookshelf speakers.

You should know by now that TLS does not like Audyssey and thought it would make things worse, much worse even. I can answer your question though, that if you manually set the center speaker to small or large, that's final, whether Audyssey is "On", or "Off".

Edit: I've just checked the speaker configuration and the crossover setting indicates the 3 front speakers as being Full Band with crossover set to 90 Hz for surrounds and surround backs. I may be wrong but I would assume that the manual setting overrides the Audyssey indication even when it's on.

As addressed above already, you are not wrong, manual settings override those shown in the Setup manual/Speakers/Audsyssey setup/Check results. What you saw there simply reflect the calibration results stored in memory, and to revert back to those settings, you have to select "restore". In other words, unless and until you press restore, your manual settings prevail.

 

[Noc662]

I suggest you set the front left, right and center to 80 Hz. It may not be perfect for your setup but it should be a good starting point. Try that for a few days or so, then you can fine tune it, by ears, increasing it in steps of 10 Hz, to 90, or even 100 Hz. If you tell us what kind of speakers you have, then we may be able to narrow things down a little more.

AVR Sony STR-DN1080 Speakers ELAC b6.2 L/C/R Subwoofer SVS pb1000

 

[PENG]

AVR Sony STR-DN1080 Speakers ELAC b6.2 L/C/R Subwoofer SVS pb1000

Thank you, with those speakers, I would set them to 100 Hz. If you don't like how they sound, then try 90, and 80 Hz but not lower because those speakers not not designed to take a lot of power, yet the impedance and sensitivity are on the low side, to average at best. The Sony should be a decent match for those speakers though, it was tested to do 178 WX2 into 4 ohms, and 77 WX7 into 6 ohms by Audiovision.de, presumable at 1% distortions (since they didn't state the THD, I felt safer to assume 1%..)

The specified 44 to 35,000 Hz does not mean a lot without the curve to show the dips and the roll off point. My guess is that it won't have much output below 60 Hz and would likely roll off quickly below 80-90 Hz based on driver size, cabinet dimensions and the bass reflex design as well as the measurements of it's more expensive and bigger tower brother the Unifi slim FSU5. Still this is just my guess, experts like @TLSGuy may be able to take a much more educated guess of the Elac b6.2's F3 and F6 points.

Also, unless your room is really small, those speakers can do better if you set them to "small" and it should work well with the PB1000, again with crossover set to 80 Hz or higher.

 

[snakeeyes]

I would try 80hz then try 90hz and compare.

 

[little wing]

I had somewhat of a revelation with crossover settings a short time ago. I was under the misguided assumption that I didn't want to "rob" my main speakers of the bass they could produce, so my crossover for the front 3 channels were set at 60hz. Then I started playing around, listening at 40hz then 60hz, and all the way up to 120hz. And you know what? The higher I went the better my system sounded. I now use a 90hz crossover for all 5 channels, and the bass in my room sounds better than it did at 60hz

 

[snakeeyes]

I had somewhat of a revelation with crossover settings a short time ago. I was under the misguided assumption that I didn't want to "rob" my main speakers of the bass they could produce, so my crossover for the front 3 channels were set at 60hz. Then I started playing around, listening at 40hz then 60hz, and all the way up to 120hz. And you know what? The higher I went the better my system sounded. I now use a 90hz crossover for all 5 channels, and the bass in my room sounds better than it did at 60hz

I used to crossover everything at 90 because I had no other option on my 2003 era gear but now I experiment with it now that I can.

 

[little wing]

I used to crossover everything at 90 because I had no other option on my 2003 era gear but now I experiment with it now that I can.

Yeah, it's cool to experiment and see what sounds best. I don't have the know how or the equipment to measure a room's response, so I tweak the settings in the AVR. It does make a difference.

 

[snakeeyes]

Yeah, it's cool to experiment and see what sounds best. I don't have the know how or the equipment to measure a room's response, so I tweak the settings in the AVR. It does make a difference.

I think dual subs helps when adjusting the front 3 up higher than 90. My (very) early impression is my HSU VTF2 seems to have more mid bass than my Rythmik LVX12 yet the Rythmik seems quicker so sub model could be a factor. I need to do more comparisons though. My GF has been sick so I haven’t had the house to myself to crank up the tunes in days...

 

[Noc662]

Thank you, with those speakers, I would set them to 100 Hz. If you don't like how they sound, then try 90, and 80 Hz but not lower because those speakers not not designed to take a lot of power, yet the impedance and sensitivity are on the low side, to average at best. The Sony should be a decent match for those speakers though, it was tested to do 178 WX2 into 4 ohms, and 77 WX7 into 6 ohms by Audiovision.de, presumable at 1% distortions (since they didn't state the THD, I felt safer to assume 1%..)

The specified 44 to 35,000 Hz does not mean a lot without the curve to show the dips and the roll off point. My guess is that it won't have much output below 60 Hz and would likely roll off quickly below 80-90 Hz based on driver size, cabinet dimensions and the bass reflex design as well as the measurements of it's more expensive and bigger tower brother the Unifi slim FSU5. Still this is just my guess, experts like @TLSGuy may be able to take a much more educated guess of the Elac b6.2's F3 and F6 points.

Also, unless your room is really small, those speakers can do better if you set them to "small" and it should work well with the PB1000, again with crossover set to 80 Hz or higher.

Thanks for the advice....I really appreciate it.

 

[little wing]

I think dual subs helps when adjusting the front 3 up higher than 90. My (very) early impression is my HSU VTF2 seems to have more mid bass than my Rythmik LVX12 yet the Rythmik seems quicker so sub model could be a factor. I need to do more comparisons though. My GF has been sick so I haven’t had the house to myself to crank up the tunes in days...

Yeah, I hear you there. I usually crank up when the lady is at work and I'm working from home. Sometimes turned it up when she's there and she deals with it.

Agree with you! A second sub would work better with a crossover set higher 90hz. The issue I have is, the second sub can only go in one place in my room. On the right side in front of the speaker facing out. The first sub is tucked away behind a chair on the left side, so It's not visible. It's gonna take some selling to get her to go for it. Here are some pics, so you get an idea of what I'm talking about. The room is not finished, but this is it so far. So I'm trying to picture a big black box in front of the right speaker.....not that visually appealing, right?

 

[snakeeyes]

Yeah, I hear you there. I usually crank up when the lady is at work and I'm working from home. Sometimes turned it up when she's there and she deals with it.

Agree with you! A second sub would work better with a crossover set higher 90hz. The issue I have is, the second sub can only go in one place in my room. On the right side in front of the speaker facing out. The first sub is tucked away behind a chair on the left side, so It's not visible. It's gonna take some selling to get her to go for it. Here are some pics, so you get an idea of what I'm talking about. The room is not finished, but this is it so far. So I'm trying to picture a big black box in front of the right speaker.....not that visually appealing, right?

Hmm maybe a sub on other side of couch would work ok? Or somewhere out of the way in back of the room?

 

[little wing]

Hmm maybe a sub on other side of couch would work ok? Or somewhere out of the way in back of the room?

The room opens into the dining room area. side of the couch would cut down on walkway space. It's a tough room..

 

[snakeeyes]

The room opens into the dining room area. side of the couch would cut down on walkway space. It's a tough room..

Ya only thing I can think of is colocating a sub next to the other one then.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

What about getting rid of the right end of the entertainment center, and re centering the entertainment center, and putting a sub just inside the right front main?

 

[little wing]

Ya only thing I can think of is colocating a sub next to the other one then.

If I did get a second sub I would move the first one to the other side of the chair. It's the perfect place for it, because it would still be out of the way.

 

[little wing]

What about getting rid of the right end of the entertainment center, and re centering the entertainment center, and putting a sub just inside the right front main?

Thanks Will,
I did remove the center shelf of the end piece on the right, and put the sub in there, and it sounded boomy to me. and the lady like the symmetrical look of the entertainment center.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks Will,
I did remove the center shelf of the end piece on the right, and put the sub in there, and it sounded boomy to me. and the lady like the symmetrical look of the entertainment center.

I kinda figured the symmetry would be an issue. I like that about it too. I does look though like you could fit a small sub behind each of your mains. Duals CAN help smooth out response and might help with that boominess you found with the single. Just sayin...lol
Maybe a couple of pc’s back there?
Ok, I’m just playing. But it probably would work.......

 

[little wing]

Hmmm, you got me thinkin' Yeah, It's not that it isn't good sound. I need to get out of my own head and enjoy the music and movies. But that damn perfection infection... I can't afford perfection anyways.