Critique Current Subwoofer and researched subwoofers to purchase!

D

drummertime

Junior Audioholic
Currently I'm running 1 subwoofer:
Sumiko S.9
350 Watt RMS
30-120 Frequency response
Crossover Frequency 120Hz

Receiver: Marantz SR-7011 has 2 subwoofer outputs. So if using more then 2 subwoofers will require a y-splitter.

I just replaced the amp plate in the Sumiko as it went completely dead. I really do like this Sub and have recently performed the Sub crawl and found 2 perfect area's for placement within my 10' x 13' room. I ran Audyssey and have the bass dialed in, or at least the best I've heard given the size of my room! I keep reading that having a minimum of 2 subs really balances the bass within the room. Then after finding 2 perfect spots in my room, one in the left corner and one directly behind my couch (main listening area). I'm really thinking a second sub is the way to go. But here's the difficulty, from reading (info on audioholics) about multi-sub setups, its stressed to use 2 of the same size and manufacture of subs. "It’s a good idea to choose identical subs for optimal cancellation of room resonances, or ones of similar output level and design". Which in my situation, I can no longer purchase another Sumiko S.9 because they've been discontinued. The one's I have found on Ebay or locally are in terrible shape. Therefore, I have 3 options.
1) Try to sell my current Sumiko and then buy 2 of the same brand subwoofers.
2) Buy 2 of the same brand subwoofers and then keep my Sumiko and see what happens with a 3rd sub setup.
3) Leave my system as is and quit obsessing over more bass (which in my opinion you can never have enough!)

If I was to go with 2 new subs this is what sounds perfect to me and in my price range:
1) Starke SW15 15" Subwoofers - with BOGO Preorder (but one get one free for 999.99) (https://shop.starkesound.com/products/sw15-subwoofer)
2) Rsl Speedwoofer 10S MKII (https://rslspeakers.com/speedwoofer10s-mkii/)
3) Monolith by Monoprice M-10 V2 10in THX Certified Select 500 Watt (https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=42843)
4) SVS SB-1000 Pro Subwoofer (https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000-pro-subwoofer)


The monolith and SVS are starting to get too high for my price range. Was trying to stick with something around a 1000.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Most subs have an in and out line level and you can loop the next one via that, so you don't need a Y.

If your room is 10x13, you don't need more than 2 subs. If you are looking at RSL, get the 12" not the 10". If you are looking SVS, then the PB1000 Pro instead of the SB1000 might be a better choice in a small room.

Of those listed, I'd have to say the Starke is a no brainer, because it is significantly more air movement than any of your other choices.
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
My room is around that size....even though I have 2 Speedwoofer 10's. I only use 2 of them...running the third one introduces more problems than benefits. I have more clean fast bass than I know what to do with.
A single Speedwoofer 12 would do you just fine....as soon as the real reviews come out on this beast, good luck getting one!

2 for one Starks sounds great, but you have to wonder what's been compromised to offer that...I was never fond of slow sloppy 15's myself.
The Speedwoofer 12 is more than a match for that SVS for less money.
The Monoprice can't hold a candle to a Speedwoofer 10.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
15s often don't do as well in their upper range, but they far more easily hit the lower notes. As with anything, that is not true of all 15s though, it depends on the design. For a BIG room, I would go with 15s. For a small room, it might be overkill. 12s seem to be a good balance.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Revisiting room size in OP....I thought it was bigger for some reason, dual 10"s can work well in that size space I'd think (and have for my own use before) but I'd rather have 12"s....
 
D

drummertime

Junior Audioholic
15s often don't do as well in their upper range, but they far more easily hit the lower notes. As with anything, that is not true of all 15s though, it depends on the design. For a BIG room, I would go with 15s. For a small room, it might be overkill. 12s seem to be a good balance.
I was thinking the same but this is the review of the Starkes 12" versus 15":
Conclusion
SW15 outside hero.jpgBefore bringing this review to a close, I will briefly go over the strengths and weaknesses of the product under review, and, as always, I will start with the weaknesses since I am the kind of person who wants to hear the bad news first. The good news is that there isn’t much bad news about the Starke Sound SW12 and SW15 subwoofers. My only complaint is that when the SW12 is pushed very hard, it is not prevented from making some fairly distressful noises. It might have been better to use some somewhat stricter filters to inhibit that behavior, although that might have come at the expense of a bit of output and extension. Many owners probably won’t push the sub that hard, but if you crank the volume up on some content that has very deep bass, the SW12 might audibly complain about that.

Aside from the SW12’s behavior at its performance limits, I did not find any significant shortcomings with the SW subs. Their performance, on the whole, is good, especially in deep bass for sealed subs at their price point. Their deep bass headroom is needed given the shape of their frequency response which is weighted a bit more the low-end than most sealed subwoofers. The time-domain behavior is careful not to exceed a cycle of delay despite the shaped response. These characteristics make them a great choice for movies or music, and I enjoyed the subs with everything that I listened to.SW12 hero angle2.jpg

The $200 price increase from the SW12 to the SW15 is a worthwhile step-up as you're getting 50% more subwoofer performance for only 25% more cost.
Outside of the performance, these subs look fine and are not enormous, so they are good choices where size and aesthetics preclude large ported options. They are not back-breakingly heavy either, and that carries a much greater advantage than most people realize. Being able to move the sub around without it turning into a major logistical challenge is useful for when you are looking for optimal placement for sound in-room or are looking to relocate the sub for any other reason. One of the major draws of the Starke Sound SW subs is the pricing. These are very affordable subs given their spec set, and Starke Sound’s aggressive pricing indicates that they mean business in this market.

One thing I would say is that if you are able to make the jump from the SW12 to the SW15, it is a well-worthwhile step up. For only $200 more, you are getting significantly more subwoofer, not just in size but also in performance. Going by the average of the burst test data, you get about 50% more subwoofer performance for only 25% more cost. The SW15 was also able to keep its cool better when pushed hard. The SW12 is a fine sub for circumstances that need a smaller size, and it does pack a real punch for the amount of space that it uses, so if you can not accommodate the larger SW15, the SW12 can still dish out a nice bass sound for your system.

Starke logo2.jpg

The SW12 and SW15 subwoofers can be purchased from Starke Sound directly. They come with a 3-year warranty as well as a 30-day trial period. If you are not happy with the sub, Starke Sound will arrange for free return shipping, so buyers have nothing to lose by giving these subs a try. Anyone looking for an affordable, no-nonsense sealed sub is certain to be quite happy with these subwoofers, and I doubt that Starke Sound will be seeing many returns of these.

So if I were going to go this route the 15's sound like the better deal...
 
D

drummertime

Junior Audioholic
My room is around that size....even though I have 2 Speedwoofer 10's. I only use 2 of them...running the third one introduces more problems than benefits. I have more clean fast bass than I know what to do with.
A single Speedwoofer 12 would do you just fine....as soon as the real reviews come out on this beast, good luck getting one!

2 for one Starks sounds great, but you have to wonder what's been compromised to offer that...I was never fond of slow sloppy 15's myself.
The Speedwoofer 12 is more than a match for that SVS for less money.
The Monoprice can't hold a candle to a Speedwoofer 10.
I'm thinking the Starkes are buy get one free based on Preorder? So they won't ship until June 30th timeframe. They are reviewed in the link below via Audioholics:

That's great to get your take given you have the Speedwoofer 10's and similar room size. I just really wanted to go with 2 subwoofers. I believe the new speedwoofer 12" are 800.00 a piece. So I'd have to spend an additional 600 over my budget of a thousand to get 2. Unless the speedwoofer 12, would play well with my Sumiko!
 
isolar8001

isolar8001

Audioholic General
I'm thinking the Starkes are buy get one free based on Preorder? So they won't ship until June 30th timeframe. They are reviewed in the link below via Audioholics:

That's great to get your take given you have the Speedwoofer 10's and similar room size. I just really wanted to go with 2 subwoofers. I believe the new speedwoofer 12" are 800.00 a piece. So I'd have to spend an additional 600 over my budget of a thousand to get 2. Unless the speedwoofer 12, would play well with my Sumiko!
I would bet that once you had your hands on those Speedwoofer 10's you might not be as enamored of the Sumiko.
Never had any experience with Sumiko though...but 3 subs in a room that small is going to be tricky to balance.

Then again...with this stuff, you never know what's really gonna happen until it happens.
 
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D

drummertime

Junior Audioholic
I would bet that once you had your hands on those Speedwoofer 10's you might not be as enamored of the Sumiko.
Never had any experience with Sumiko though...but 3 subs in a room that small is going to be tricky to balance.

Then again...with this stuff, you never know what's really gonna happen until it happens.
I definitely will not be trying for 3-subs, I think for the size of the room that's overkill. Not to mention what you stated "3 subs in a room that small is going to be tricky to balance". The Sumiko was a sub designed by Sonus Faber. Its a beautiful sub, but truthfully it was my first big purchase, so definitely some sentimental value! Was a 1000 back in the day and then I spent 300 recently replacing the amp plate. But this was before researching the benefits of multiple subs! Live and learn! If I knew what I know now, I wouldn't have spent the time and effort to replace the amp plate.

I'm just trying to get the best band for my buck at the 1000 dollar price point! But you cannot argue given the reviews on the Speedwoofers 10's. But great reviews on the Starkes as well!
 
D

drummertime

Junior Audioholic
Thanks for the article reference! This was a good read especially:
Pursuing the Truth: Larger woofers displace just as much air as small subwoofers by moving a lot less in and out. By minimizing the amount of in/out movement, the driver tends to behave in a more linear fashion. In general, the “speed” is a function of group delay. Larger subs do not have more group delay. However, larger subs do typically have lower distortion, can play louder, and can play deeper. There is no replacement for displacement. No turbos for subwoofers. On the other hand, to make small subwoofers linearly displace a lot of air, they often need very large motor systems with very big voicecoils. These large voicecoils can lead to more inductance and this can cause several response problems such as a peaking midbass, roll-off in the upper bass, inductance related distortion, and increased group delay (See figure 2 as an example of the effects of increased inductance on the response shape). This can be just as true of large woofers. To combat the effects of high inductance, specially designed linear motors can be made that include things like inductance rings or specially wound coils that lower inductance.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The deal on the Starke SW15 is too good to pass up, I would jump on that if it is in your budget.
 
D

drummertime

Junior Audioholic
Well I had to do it!! 2 Starke SW15 15" Subwoofers will be headed my way in late June:cool:
 
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