Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
Quit watching the news and get off Facebook, it’s all garbage.

Got COVID twice, Jan 2020, Jan 2021, had Pfizer series done in March as a requirement of my employment. Somehow was more sick from the 2nd shot than either round of COVID. We would get reports that during the Delta peak in Afghanistan (about 1-2 months ahead of the U.S), that roughly half the population of Kabul had covid. ~1.5 million.

We had two personnel(U.S, Nepalese, Local Nationals) that needed airlifted during the first few months of 2020. When Delta came around I think we had at least two dozen airlifted and two deaths out of a population around 3000.


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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Quit watching the news and get off Facebook, it’s all garbage.

Got COVID twice, Jan 2020, Jan 2021, had Pfizer series done in March as a requirement of my employment. Somehow was more sick from the 2nd shot than either round of COVID. We would get reports that during the Delta peak in Afghanistan (about 1-2 months ahead of the U.S), that roughly half the population of Kabul had covid. ~1.5 million.

We had two personnel(U.S, Nepalese, Local Nationals) that needed airlifted during the first few months of 2020. When Delta came around I think we had at least two dozen airlifted and two deaths out of a population around 3000.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is a very interesting personal case history. The fact you had Covid-19 twice a year apart, is indicative of what we know about the length of natural immunity from corona viruses in general. At this time we do not know how long vaccine immunity really lasts. However there is increasing data out of England that breakthrough cases seem to be becoming progressively common after 6 months post second dose. This is not encouraging to a degree. However breakthrough cases do seem to be less severe.

We do know that immunization after a clinical case of Covid-19 produces a robust immune response. So much so that immunization is not recommended within two months of a clinical infections.

I don't know of any data about the immune response after having Covid-19 twice. It would be really interesting to know your immune response. I'm tempted to ask you to see, if you can get your antibodies to Covid-19 measured to assuage my curiosity. I'm not surprised that you felt quite unwell after your second dose of vaccine.

On a personal note, I had an interesting experience after my third booster dose.

I had Moderna vaccine, February 17, and March 17, 2021. Mayo Clinic identified me as an immunological vulnerable patient. So on October 7, I received a booster dose of Moderna vaccine. Not with standing the trial data was with half a dose, and that is would the FDA approved for boosting with Moderna. In any event, despite my protestations, I received the full, and not the half dose. I only had minimal after effects from the first two doses. The third, gave me a really sore arm, extreme fatigue and myalgia for 72 hours. So, I'm pretty sure I had a very robust immune response!
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
AY.4.2 Variant of the Delta Covid-19 variant.

The UK has reported that the above new variant is now 6% of cases. I want to stress that this variant has not yet been identified as a variant of concern. This variant has been identified in the US already.

However, the UK is experiencing a week on week rise of 17% in the last week, and it looks as if a fifth wave is kicking off. The fourth wave has not returned to base line, but stayed at a disconcertingly high level, about 50% reduction from the fourth peak. The rise in hospitalizations is starting to occur. It is not a lot, but showing early significance. There has been not significant rise in deaths, but deaths are a late indicator.

85% of the population over 12 have had one dose, and 79% have had two.

The above concerns me.

On the other hand restrictions in the UK are now minimal to non existent, with little mask wearing and virtually no social distancing, or restrictions on gatherings.

I have to say, I am personally concerned, as we have seen this rodeo before!

I am not alone as many is the scientific community are calling for plan B restrictions to be introduced. To say there has been push back from the government would be an understatement. Any major restrictions being re-imposed are being pretty much ruled out. I think at this stage economic realities are going to ace the medical and public health issues. So, may be I'm wrong, but I read the public and government mood, to be that from now on , what ever happens, any death rate from Covid-19 will be tolerated.

Morocco has now banned travelers from the UK. Whether others will follow it is hard to say.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
I must admit I have no clue as to why healthcare workers refuse the vaccine. They are in constant contact with infected people so you would think they would want to protect themselves. And they are putting their patients at risk also. Unbelievable....
It's not as some people like to say that easy to just write them off the unvaccinated as stupid or ignorant as some people would like to.

The research shows a lot of reasons why some groups are resistant to vaccines. Not all of there reasons or feelings are invalid. Just one example minorities are a lot more likely to not be vaccinated. A lot of them don't trust authority or the government. Honestly can you blame them?

Military some are reluctant. I work in psych nursing with the military. Some of them have had bad experiences with bad commands. They don't trust the government always. Can I blame them?

There's a ton of factors some single mothers are worried of missing work or watching there kids if they have a tough time with the 2nd dose

I mean there are those nut jobs out there that think it's a tracking device or a government conspiracy but the research shows some parts of the population do have some thoughts and concerns that could be addressed.

There's a ton of reasons but I feel going over them all would derail the thread

What I feel it boils down to is we're really lacking any empathy in society these days. And that goes both ways. And that goes just as much with the uncooperative on vaccines and social distancing and other measures. Both sides yell at each other and we just get nowhere

A lot of countries have now started taking an approach ( I'll see if I can link the article here in a minute ) of just accepting that Covid is not going anywhere and learning how to live with it. They encourage vaccination really encourage it but they don't demonize those who don't. They instead pool there resources into protecting the ones most vulnerable to Covid with vaccines and safety measures and find ways for everyone to get back on with life. Because it's not looking like it's going anywhere by this point. It just seems to those countries like a more practical and pragmatic way of approaching the situation. They feel too many more restrictions will now do more damage to society overall at this point then good.

I think in the States we still have this perception that we're going to beat this thing. And there's nothing wrong with that there's nothing wrong with trying to beat it as best we can and trying to vaccinate everyone

But I don't think we're ever going to get to 100% compliance and honestly I think Covid in one form or another is here to stay and sooner or later we will shift our focus on accepting this fact and figuring out the best way to move forward like other countries are doing right now.

Or we won't I mean this thing and the state of the world and especially the U.S. is so volatile its hard to predict where things will go

Nothing really surprises me anymore that's for dang sure
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
AY.4.2 Variant of the Delta Covid-19 variant.

The UK has reported that the above new variant is now 6% of cases. I want to stress that this variant has not yet been identified as a variant of concern. This variant has been identified in the US already.

However, the UK is experiencing a week on week rise of 17% in the last week, and it looks as if a fifth wave is kicking off. The fourth wave has not returned to base line, but stayed at a disconcertingly high level, about 50% reduction from the fourth peak. The rise in hospitalizations is starting to occur. It is not a lot, but showing early significance. There has been not significant rise in deaths, but deaths are a late indicator.

85% of the population over 12 have had one dose, and 79% have had two.

The above concerns me.

On the other hand restrictions in the UK are now minimal to non existent, with little mask wearing and virtually no social distancing, or restrictions on gatherings.

I have to say, I am personally concerned, as we have seen this rodeo before!

I am not alone as many is the scientific community are calling for plan B restrictions to be introduced. To say there has been push back from the government would be an understatement. Any major restrictions being re-imposed are being pretty much ruled out. I think at this stage economic realities are going to ace the medical and public health issues. So, may be I'm wrong, but I read the public and government mood, to be that from now on , what ever happens, any death rate from Covid-19 will be tolerated.

Morocco has now banned travelers from the UK. Whether others will follow it is hard to say.
I'm puzzled by the very currently very low rate of vaccination in the UK. It is less than half that of Canada or the US. And, the total number of people vaccinated is about 6% per capita lower than Canada. This, despite the very high infection rate. Even France has surpassed the UK in vaccinations. I just don't get it.
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
That is a very interesting personal case history. The fact you had Covid-19 twice a year apart, is indicative of what we know about the length of natural immunity from corona viruses in general. At this time we do not know how long vaccine immunity really lasts. However there is increasing data out of England that breakthrough cases seem to be becoming progressively common after 6 months post second dose. This is not encouraging to a degree. However breakthrough cases do seem to be less severe.

We do know that immunization after a clinical case of Covid-19 produces a robust immune response. So much so that immunization is not recommended within two months of a clinical infections.

I don't know of any data about the immune response after having Covid-19 twice. It would be really interesting to know your immune response. I'm tempted to ask you to see, if you can get your antibodies to Covid-19 measured to assuage my curiosity. I'm not surprised that you felt quite unwell after your second dose of vaccine.

On a personal note, I had an interesting experience after my third booster dose.

I had Moderna vaccine, February 17, and March 17, 2021. Mayo Clinic identified me as an immunological vulnerable patient. So on October 7, I received a booster dose of Moderna vaccine. Not with standing the trial data was with half a dose, and that is would the FDA approved for boosting with Moderna. In any event, despite my protestations, I received the full, and not the half dose. I only had minimal after effects from the first two doses. The third, gave me a really sore arm, extreme fatigue and myalgia for 72 hours. So, I'm pretty sure I had a very robust immune response!
I had a fever and felt pretty weak overall. Broke the fever in the middle of the night, bed was soaked. I think I was feeling better 48hrs after the shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
I'm puzzled by the very currently very low rate of vaccination in the UK. It is less than half that of Canada or the US. And, the total number of people vaccinated is about 6% per capita lower than Canada. This, despite the very high infection rate. Even France has surpassed the UK in vaccinations. I just don't get it.
There are a significant minority of people enamored with Trump in the UK, and his name still surfaces with regularity in comment sections in newspapers.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Honestly and I don't mean to sound harsh but F@#$ where it came from.

The term pick your battles comes to mind. I'd rather not start World War III over this damn virus it's caused enough destruction as it is in literally every aspect of the world you can think of. Economy societal health actual deaths caused by the virus mental illness that's just to name a few I'd rather not rush to put any more blood on its hands.

And that's what your advocating is World War 3 make no doubght about it. China even with its priority to lie is hurting just as bad as any other country from this right now. You don't take a wounded animal that has strong military and nuclear capabilities and back it into a corner. Because we run the real risk in that scenario of World War 4 being fought with sticks and stones

We have enough problems in our own country to resolve right now
Border issues
Societal issues
Virus issues
A serious serious labor shortage issue
How to encourage vaccination issues
Supply chain issues
Eventually accepting that this virus is here to stay and learning how to cope with it issues.
Mental health issues
Skyrocketing crime issues
Serious inflation issues that are not going to go away anytime soon


I think @Swerd is spot on here. We have enough on our plate. Whether we like it or not China is going to have to get away with this one if they did indeed cause it its not fair but life isn't fair and right know we have a lot on our plate

I can think of a ton of stuff to deal with right now and picking a fight with China over where this virus and how it originated isn't anywhere near on the top of that list

Strategically and practically is just not good tactics right now bro
Ignoring the source of COVID would be a very foolish thing to do.

Are you saying that our intelligence community couldn't find out? I think the World has enough people who could find the source- let's get them to do it since all of the problems you listed are for the US, anyway.

Yeah, we have a helluva lot of problems and our government caused every one of them.

The source of the labor shortage is on the labor side- many people stopped wanting to work. MKE now has a shortage of snow plow drivers and those guys made a lot of money, every Winter. They all didn't retire, leave the area or become disabled- why don't they want to do it? My guess is that the head of the DPW has become such a PITA that people are leaving the department.

Killing close to a million people isn't about fairness- that's a major crime against humanity and Bolsonaro (Brazil) may be charged with that crime for his role in the Brazilian death toll from COVID. We're pretty sure China has lied about their death toll and now, Russia is said to have been doing the same- why should China be allowed to get away with this? NEVER!

 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Colin Powell was 84 years old, and he suffered from multiple myeloma, a cancer of bone marrow cells that essentially disabled his immune responses, despite prior vaccination. If anything, Colin Powell's death was brought on by people who refuse to be vaccinated, causing widespread COVID-19 exposure and infection among people who cannot mount their own immune responses.
And those with compromised immune systems were told that they should isolate since the beginning of COVID- how is his death the fault of people who refused to be vaccinated? I would think he knew enough to be careful about who came near him.

Police are the largest single group of COVID victims and they're choosing to avoid the vaccine. Medical people are also refusing- why, do you suppose, this is the case?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
I had a fever and felt pretty weak overall. Broke the fever in the middle of the night, bed was soaked. I think I was feeling better 48hrs after the shot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Had you been infected before being vaccinated?
 
MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Audioholic
And those with compromised immune systems were told that they should isolate since the beginning of COVID- how is his death the fault of people who refused to be vaccinated? I would think he knew enough to be careful about who came near him.

Police are the largest single group of COVID victims and they're choosing to avoid the vaccine. Medical people are also refusing- why, do you suppose, this is the case?
They think they are smarter than they are.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
Ignoring the source of COVID would be a very foolish thing to do.

Are you saying that our intelligence community couldn't find out? I think the World has enough people who could find the source- let's get them to do it since all of the problems you listed are for the US, anyway.

Yeah, we have a helluva lot of problems and our government caused every one of them.

The source of the labor shortage is on the labor side- many people stopped wanting to work. MKE now has a shortage of snow plow drivers and those guys made a lot of money, every Winter. They all didn't retire, leave the area or become disabled- why don't they want to do it? My guess is that the head of the DPW has become such a PITA that people are leaving the department.

Killing close to a million people isn't about fairness- that's a major crime against humanity and Bolsonaro (Brazil) may be charged with that crime for his role in the Brazilian death toll from COVID. We're pretty sure China has lied about their death toll and now, Russia is said to have been doing the same- why should China be allowed to get away with this? NEVER!

You know I have a guy right now on one of my military units with a face that doesn't match because half of his face had to be grafted back on. He has to use a wheel chair for the rest of his life

When you see these men and women get to know them and hear there stories it changes you

I see they're pain I see there nightmares the sleepless nights the trauma I see what war takes from them and I see just how much they have to go through to bring themselves back

Like @Swerd said its a helluva thing to push for a war that will cost men and women so much that I'm not putting myself on the line for. I'm too old to serve my football injuries make me ineligible but I'm going to ask these wonderful people to pay a price that I can't?

China will never be honest about it. Even if they were complicit they will never let us find out. They'd risk war before that happens and definitely would risk it after the world would come after them. And what I've learned from those men and women I work for is war should always be the absolute last resort. This isn't the right time

The absolute devastation it would wreck on the citizens of the world if another World War broke out right now after they've already been through so much with this pandemic.

It's just not worth it. We've got so much here in the US we need to work on its just not worth it. We have vaccines a new pill looks promising we've got a pretty good start on understanding what this virus is and how it works.

Let's learn to live with it repair the damage and move on. I have a feeling China and the problems they pose aren't going to go away. We may end up in that place anyway. But not over this and I pray man I pray every day we don't have to end up there at all.
 
MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Audioholic
Our Gov in FLA, At a news conference in Clearwater early Thursday, DeSantis said he was requesting a special session of the Florida Legislature to pass a law blocking the federal government from requiring companies with more than 100 employees that they be vaccinated or regularly tested. https://www.news4jax.com/news/florida/2021/10/21/gov-desantis-wants-special-session-to-pass-law-against-vaccine-mandates/
DeSantis is a moron. How he graduated from Harvard is beyond me.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
You know I have a guy right now on one of my military units with a face that doesn't match because half of his face had to be grafted back on. He has to use a wheel chair for the rest of his life

When you see these men and women get to know them and hear there stories it changes you

I see they're pain I see there nightmares the sleepless nights the trauma I see what war takes from them and I see just how much they have to go through to bring themselves back

Like @Swerd said its a helluva thing to push for a war that will cost men and women so much that I'm not putting myself on the line for. I'm too old to serve my football injuries make me ineligible but I'm going to ask these wonderful people to pay a price that I can't?

China will never be honest about it. Even if they were complicit they will never let us find out. They'd risk war before that happens and definitely would risk it after the world would come after them. And what I've learned from those men and women I work for is war should always be the absolute last resort. This isn't the right time

The absolute devastation it would wreck on the citizens of the world if another World War broke out right now after they've already been through so much with this pandemic.

It's just not worth it. We've got so much here in the US we need to work on its just not worth it. We have vaccines a new pill looks promising we've got a pretty good start on understanding what this virus is and how it works.

Let's learn to live with it repair the damage and move on. I have a feeling China and the problems they pose aren't going to go away. We may end up in that place anyway. But not over this and I pray man I pray every day we don't have to end up there at all.
I didn't mean that I want to send our military into another endless war, or one that's quick and painful. I really would like to try having an American generation without a war- it hasn't happened since the founding of the country. However, the world CAN wage an economic war, of sorts- making them feel the pain of their actions is something I would agree to. Make them play by OUR (the World's) rules, not their own. They have long term goals and those don't include playing by the rules- that attitude needs to change.

OTOH, I just received this document form a friend and we were talking about some friends of him and his wife- one couple met when they were in the Military and now work in Bureau of Land Management and the US Forestry Department- they were both vaccinated, both contracted COVID, he had it twice after being vaccinated. Both are middle-aged and healthy, very active. I have seen many contradictions to what we're being told and some of the disputing info comes from the NIH, some from other agencies. One of the people this couple traveled with worked for the CDC and she told them that nothing from the CDC is accurate.

We, the public, only know what we believe from what we're told and what we find for ourselves. People in specialty medical fields have access to more in-depth info, but if that's the case, why are so many hesitant or completely resistant to being vaccinated?

I worked for someone who was a Sgt in Vietnam- he didn't talk much about it, but one thing that stood out- he absolutely refused to drive a green vehicle because he spent so much time in the jungles. He recently had a chance to go up in a Huey- he said he wished he hadn't- brought back too many bad memories. He's OK, other than major hearing loss, a scar in his back from a chunk of shrapnel and two knee replacements from jumping out of helicopters. He helps a lot of vets at the VA.

Another veteran I met while on a Grand Canyon rafting trip- most of us hiked into the canyon to start our section of the trip and after we had lunch, we were told that we would be waiting for some others who couldn't move as quickly. We waited, then we became impatient. Until we saw this couple, a man and his wife- she was fine, he was walking with two crutches. This is a 9.5 mile hike, one mile vertical- it took the rest of us anywhere from 3.5-6 hours and it's a bitch. This couple started just after 4:30AM and it took until almost 3PM to reach the bottom. Oh, boy- did WE feel special. Like a special bunch of turds, for being so selfish that we thought we should move faster. Yeah, we were special, alright. Once we got a chance to talk with them, we found out that until two years prior, he had been bedridden because of his knees (Airborne, but I don't remember which Division or Unit) and his goal was to go on this trip, top see if he could get through it. He was in serious pain at the end of every day, but he continued. Another part of his goal was to go back to the VA and tell some of the others that it was definitely possible for them to make the trip, too. I have a ton of respect for them.

Something to read-

 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Samurai
It's not as some people like to say that easy to just write them off the unvaccinated as stupid or ignorant as some people would like to.

The research shows a lot of reasons why some groups are resistant to vaccines. Not all of there reasons or feelings are invalid. Just one example minorities are a lot more likely to not be vaccinated. A lot of them don't trust authority or the government. Honestly can you blame them?

Military some are reluctant. I work in psych nursing with the military. Some of them have had bad experiences with bad commands. They don't trust the government always. Can I blame them?

There's a ton of factors some single mothers are worried of missing work or watching there kids if they have a tough time with the 2nd dose

I mean there are those nut jobs out there that think it's a tracking device or a government conspiracy but the research shows some parts of the population do have some thoughts and concerns that could be addressed.

There's a ton of reasons but I feel going over them all would derail the thread

What I feel it boils down to is we're really lacking any empathy in society these days. And that goes both ways. And that goes just as much with the uncooperative on vaccines and social distancing and other measures. Both sides yell at each other and we just get nowhere

A lot of countries have now started taking an approach ( I'll see if I can link the article here in a minute ) of just accepting that Covid is not going anywhere and learning how to live with it. They encourage vaccination really encourage it but they don't demonize those who don't. They instead pool there resources into protecting the ones most vulnerable to Covid with vaccines and safety measures and find ways for everyone to get back on with life. Because it's not looking like it's going anywhere by this point. It just seems to those countries like a more practical and pragmatic way of approaching the situation. They feel too many more restrictions will now do more damage to society overall at this point then good.

I think in the States we still have this perception that we're going to beat this thing. And there's nothing wrong with that there's nothing wrong with trying to beat it as best we can and trying to vaccinate everyone

But I don't think we're ever going to get to 100% compliance and honestly I think Covid in one form or another is here to stay and sooner or later we will shift our focus on accepting this fact and figuring out the best way to move forward like other countries are doing right now.

Or we won't I mean this thing and the state of the world and especially the U.S. is so volatile its hard to predict where things will go

Nothing really surprises me anymore that's for dang sure
But healthcare workers are working with the immune compromised. They should be mandated to get the vaccine. I sure wouldn't want to be in an ICU when my nurses or docs weren't vaccinated.
 
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