M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic General
As I was reading the articles below concerning brain damage from COVID, it struck me how strange it is that many vaccine hesitant people worry about possible long term effects of the vaccine (completely speculative, as far as I can tell), yet they appear to be perfectly comfortable with the known and unknown long term effects of COVID.

It's almost as if they are walking along looking up for fear of getting hit by an asteroid and step in front of a bus.

>>>Studies now suggest that SARS-CoV-2 can infect astrocytes, a type of cell that’s abundant in the brain and has many functions. “Astrocytes do quite a lot that supports normal brain function,” including providing nutrients to neurons to keep them working, says Arnold Kriegstein, a neurologist at the University of California, San Francisco. . . . Astrocytes might be vulnerable even if they are not infected by the virus. A study published on 21 June7 compared the brains of 8 deceased people who had COVID-19 with the brains of 14 controls. The researchers found no trace of SARS-CoV-2 in the brains of the infected people, but they did find that gene expression had been affected in some astrocytes, which were not working properly. . . . Evidence has also accumulated that SARS-CoV-2 can affect the brain by reducing blood flow to it — impairing neurons’ function and ultimately killing them.<<<

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01693-6

>>>What scientists have found so far is concerning. For example, PET scans taken before and after a person develops COVID-19 suggest that the infection can cause changes that overlap those seen in Alzheimer's. And genetic studies are finding that some of the same genes that increase a person's risk for getting severe COVID-19 also increase the risk of developing Alzheimer's.

Alzheimer's diagnoses also appear to be more common in patients in their 60s and 70s who have had severe COVID-19, says Dr. Gabriel de Erausquin, a professor of neurology at UT Health San Antonio. "It's downright scary," he says.<<<

 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Samurai
Looks like moderna boosters will be available any day now...
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
This morning I saw a very good article in the New York Times summarizing what we know about our immune responses to SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus responsible for the Covid-19 pandemic. Our immune systems are complex, and I've criticized most news reporting for failing to understand our immune systems as they write about the pandemic. They tend to focus only on circulating antibodies, while ignoring all the other abilities of the immune system.

This article is long, and NY Times articles can be hard to open online without a subscription.
"What the Future May Hold for the Coronavirus and Us", by Emily Anthes, October 12, 2021

I liked the article because it gives good reason for hope that the future isn't so bleak as some of us fear.

I saved the full article as a PDF file, and attached it below. And, I've quoted a part of the article here:
Dodging immunity
In addition to becoming more transmissible, some variants have also acquired the ability to dodge some of our antibodies. Antibodies, which can prevent the virus from entering our cells, are engineered to latch onto specific molecules on the surface of the virus, snapping into place like puzzle pieces. But genetic mutations in the virus can change the shape of those binding sites.

“If you change that shape, you can make it impossible for an antibody to do its job,” said Marion Pepper, an immunologist at the University of Washington School of Medicine.

Delta appears to evade some antibodies, but there are other variants, particularly Beta, that are even better at dodging these defenses. For now, Delta is so infectious that it has managed to outcompete, and thus limit the spread of, these stealthier variants.

But as more people acquire antibodies against the virus, mutations that allow the virus to slip past these antibodies will become even more advantageous. “The landscape of selection has changed,” said Jessica Metcalf, an evolutionary biologist at Princeton University. “From the point of view of the virus, it’s no longer, ‘I just bop around, and there’s a free host.’”

The good news is that there are many different kinds of antibodies, and a variant with a few new mutations is unlikely to escape them all, experts said.

“The immune system has also evolved to have plenty of tricks up its sleeve to counteract the evolution of the virus,” Dr. Pepper said. “Knowing that there is this complex level of diversity in the immune system allows me to sleep better at night.”

Certain T cells, for instance, destroy virus-infected cells, helping to reduce the severity of disease. Together, our assortment of T cells can recognize at least 30 to 40 different pieces of SARS-CoV-2, researchers have found.

“It’s a lot harder to evade T cell responses than antibody responses,” said Dr. Celine Gounder an infectious disease specialist at the New York University Grossman School of Medicine.

And then there are B cells, which generate our army of antibodies. Even after we clear the infection, the body keeps churning out B cells for a while, deliberately introducing small genetic mutations. The result is an enormously diverse collection of B cells producing an array of antibodies, some of which might be a good match for the next variant that comes along.

“They’re actually a library of guesses that the immune system makes about what variants might look like in the future,” said Shane Crotty, a virologist at the La Jolla Institute for Immunology.

So far, studies suggest that our antibody, T cell and B cell responses are all working as expected when it comes to SARS-CoV-2. “This virus is mostly playing by immunological rules we understand,” Dr. Crotty said.
 

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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN A TOP PRIORITY????????????????????????????

 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Field Marshall
WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN A TOP PRIORITY????????????????????????????

Why , well because China and the US are so darn stubborn joint cooperation on SAR's is the least of their prioroties. They would rather bitch about each other than work to reduce SAR's and pretty much all the other issues between the two counties, trade, military, climate, product quality, space etc...
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
WHY HAS THIS NOT BEEN A TOP PRIORITY?
Our TOP PRIORITY is controlling the spread of the SARS-CoV-2 virus by vaccinating the US population, and then the world's. There is no question that this is by far the most important thing we can do.

While it may be useful to know where the virus came from and how it might have jumped to humans, knowing that may or may not be helpful for the next virus epidemic that comes along. This is more the subject of political opportunists looking to score political points.

We already know that China is a political, economic and military threat, and that we cannot trust them.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Our TOP PRIORITY is controlling the spread of the SARS-CoV-2 virus by vaccinating the US population, and then the world's. There is no question that this is by far the most important thing we can do.

While it may be useful to know where the virus came from and how it might have jumped to humans, knowing that may or may not be helpful for the next virus epidemic that comes along. This is more the subject of political opportunists looking to score political points.

We already know that China is a political, economic and military threat, and that we cannot trust them.
F&ck political points. If this kind of research will be done, it needs to be isolated far better and there should be zero possibility of spreading any pathogen- if someone needs to leave, they should be tested and not allowed until no trace exists on or in them.

This came from a lab in China and they have been stonewalling- the WHOLE WORLD needs to stomp them into the ground. Screw their manufacturing capabilities, they need to pay for this. The Chinese government is a menace to the planet.

First, the WHO isn't an American entity or intended to benefit the US more than anyone else and second, funding for gain of function research by the US was paused by the NIH in 2014, but reinstated in 2017, apparently because they decided some new measures should be sufficient to prevent a pandemic. Maybe that wasn't the case.



According to this article, Fauci awarded a $3.4 Million grant to EcoHEalth Alliance in 2014 but doesn't indicate whether this was before or after the NIH's pause on funding this kind of research.

 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
This came from a lab in China and they have been stonewalling- the WHOLE WORLD needs to stomp them into the ground. Screw their manufacturing capabilities, they need to pay for this. The Chinese government is a menace to the planet.
Those words, "stomp them into the ground" are strong words. That sounds to me like a call for war. I wouldn't be so ready to call for a war that you wouldn't have to fight.

Did you read the whole article you cited from IBTimes? It refutes the often repeated but false claim that Anthony Fauci's actions brought on pandemic.
Antony Fauci did not bypass any rules in granting funds to EcoHealth Alliance. Moreover, there is no proof that the virus originated in the lab. Also, there is no proof for claims that EcoHealth grant was involved in gain-of-function research.
I've had to ask others the very same question, "Did you actually read the whole article?" I guess I shouldn't be so surprised. It makes it easy to conclude that you only briefly scanned the article because of the headline, in an effort to cherry pick evidence to support your dubious claim. Don't make it so easy to poke holes in what you say.
 
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D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
F&ck political points. If this kind of research will be done, it needs to be isolated far better and there should be zero possibility of spreading any pathogen- if someone needs to leave, they should be tested and not allowed until no trace exists on or in them.

This came from a lab in China and they have been stonewalling- the WHOLE WORLD needs to stomp them into the ground. Screw their manufacturing capabilities, they need to pay for this. The Chinese government is a menace to the planet.

First, the WHO isn't an American entity or intended to benefit the US more than anyone else and second, funding for gain of function research by the US was paused by the NIH in 2014, but reinstated in 2017, apparently because they decided some new measures should be sufficient to prevent a pandemic. Maybe that wasn't the case.



According to this article, Fauci awarded a $3.4 Million grant to EcoHEalth Alliance in 2014 but doesn't indicate whether this was before or after the NIH's pause on funding this kind of research.

Honestly and I don't mean to sound harsh but F@#$ where it came from.

The term pick your battles comes to mind. I'd rather not start World War III over this damn virus it's caused enough destruction as it is in literally every aspect of the world you can think of. Economy societal health actual deaths caused by the virus mental illness that's just to name a few I'd rather not rush to put any more blood on its hands.

And that's what your advocating is World War 3 make no doubght about it. China even with its priority to lie is hurting just as bad as any other country from this right now. You don't take a wounded animal that has strong military and nuclear capabilities and back it into a corner. Because we run the real risk in that scenario of World War 4 being fought with sticks and stones

We have enough problems in our own country to resolve right now
Border issues
Societal issues
Virus issues
A serious serious labor shortage issue
How to encourage vaccination issues
Supply chain issues
Eventually accepting that this virus is here to stay and learning how to cope with it issues.
Mental health issues
Skyrocketing crime issues
Serious inflation issues that are not going to go away anytime soon


I think @Swerd is spot on here. We have enough on our plate. Whether we like it or not China is going to have to get away with this one if they did indeed cause it its not fair but life isn't fair and right know we have a lot on our plate

I can think of a ton of stuff to deal with right now and picking a fight with China over where this virus and how it originated isn't anywhere near on the top of that list

Strategically and practically is just not good tactics right now bro
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic General
I'm assuming most everyone saw that Nick Rolovich was fired for refusing to comply with the vaccine "mandate."

>>>Washington State fires football coach Nick Rolovich for not getting COVID-19 vaccine as state mandate takes effect

Washington State coach Nick Rolovich has been fired with cause after he refused to take the COVID-19 vaccine, the university announced. . . . Rolovich was the highest-paid employee in the state with a salary of over $3 million per season. He is the first coach at the top level of college football to lose his job because of a vaccine mandate. He has not publicly explained his reasoning for declining the COVID-19 vaccine despite myriad questions from media members regarding his refusal to get vaccinated. <<<



This is a little nit-picky, but, to my mind, telling an employee they have a choice to get vaccinated or lose their job isn't really a true "mandate."

Merriam Webster defines mandate as: "an authoritative command especially formal order from a superior court or official to an inferior one." Blacks Law dictionary defines mandate as follows: "A Judicial command or precept proceeding from a court or judicial officer, directing the proper officer to enforce a judgment, sentence, or decree."

In the case of an employer making vaccination a requirement to remain employed, the employee still has the freedom to decide if he/she will comply with this requirement to stay employed. The employee does not face incarceration or fines for refusing to comply, they just don't get to keep that particular job.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mandate

 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
>>>Washington State fires football coach Nick Rolovich for not getting COVID-19 vaccine as state mandate takes effect
So, is this the inevitability of our nation which has begun? I believe it is.

The process of requiring the vaccine to be given to all Americans has begun. It begins with businesses and organizations who are willing to stand up and demand that their employees be protected from one another and that they be able to protect their own customers. To help mitigate potential threats.

But, as more and more organizations require this, I expect that it will begin to be frowned upon more and more to allow the unvaccinated entrance.
That is, I fully expect proof of vaccination to be required more and more and more often in more places. As vaccination rates climb above 90% in some areas, there will be more and more who are willing to take a potential 10% hit on their businesses to ensure that everyone who walks through their doors is fully vaccinated.

And it will spread.

Those states which do their best to ignore the science, the same ones who have always done so, will be hit the hardest and will pay the price.

There will certainly be a call to reduce funding for those states and individuals who choose to ignore the science. Health insurance companies could easily determine that the unvaccinated are a major financial risk and increase cost significantly for those who are unvaccinated, or more likely a discount to those who are vaccinated, resulting in the same outcome.

This battle between those who believe in the actual science, and those who do not, will play out for the next several years. It will actually play out forever. But, this fight is already over. As we have seen throughout history, those that care about the lives of others will eventually overpower those that do not. It won't change the hearts of the uncaring, but it will change the direction of how this nation thinks of them as a whole. Much like the intolerance of vocal racists today, there will be a intolerance of the cruelty and lack of care which anti-covid vaxxers have to contend with.

How long it takes before we reach that point I do not know.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
So, is this the inevitability of our nation which has begun? I believe it is.

The process of requiring the vaccine to be given to all Americans has begun. It begins with businesses and organizations who are willing to stand up and demand that their employees be protected from one another and that they be able to protect their own customers. To help mitigate potential threats.

But, as more and more organizations require this, I expect that it will begin to be frowned upon more and more to allow the unvaccinated entrance.
That is, I fully expect proof of vaccination to be required more and more and more often in more places. As vaccination rates climb above 90% in some areas, there will be more and more who are willing to take a potential 10% hit on their businesses to ensure that everyone who walks through their doors is fully vaccinated.

And it will spread.

Those states which do their best to ignore the science, the same ones who have always done so, will be hit the hardest and will pay the price.

There will certainly be a call to reduce funding for those states and individuals who choose to ignore the science. Health insurance companies could easily determine that the unvaccinated are a major financial risk and increase cost significantly for those who are unvaccinated, or more likely a discount to those who are vaccinated, resulting in the same outcome.

This battle between those who believe in the actual science, and those who do not, will play out for the next several years. It will actually play out forever. But, this fight is already over. As we have seen throughout history, those that care about the lives of others will eventually overpower those that do not. It won't change the hearts of the uncaring, but it will change the direction of how this nation thinks of them as a whole. Much like the intolerance of vocal racists today, there will be a intolerance of the cruelty and lack of care which anti-covid vaxxers have to contend with.

How long it takes before we reach that point I do not know.
What stands out to me is the current economic situation favors the employee not the employer. In the middle of a labor shortage right now with companies actually desperate right now for workers can they actually pull off enforcement?

One of the airlines actually walked back enforcing the mandate I think it was Delta airlines. It's one thing to fire a football coach.

But when your laying off nurses doctors truck drivers pilots and other jobs that require a level of skill that can't be easily replaced it's basically a game of chicken and we will just have to see who flinches first really.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic General
What stands out to me is the current economic situation favors the employee not the employer. In the middle of a labor shortage right now with companies actually desperate right now for workers can they actually pull off enforcement?

One of the airlines actually walked back enforcing the mandate I think it was Delta airlines. It's one thing to fire a football coach.

But when your laying off nurses doctors truck drivers pilots and other jobs that require a level of skill that can't be easily replaced it's basically a game of chicken and we will just have to see who flinches first really.
As far as I can tell, when push comes to shove, there are not very many employees that actually choose to get fired rather than get vaccinated. It seems to be 1% or less:

>>>Some industry figures have pushed back on staffing fears. Ezekiel J. Emanuel, M.D., vice provost for global initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania and a former White House health policy adviser, pointed to the limited workforce fallout among the summer’s early movers as an acceptable loss for workforce-wide coverage.

“If you look at healthcare systems that have actually mandated this, they’ve retained over 99% of their workforce,” he said in support of the mandates during an August press event. “Their workforce does go along when the employer requires it.”<<<


>>>United Airlines said it would terminate about 600 employees for refusing to comply with its vaccination requirement, putting the company at the forefront of the battle over vaccine mandates as the economy moves through a bumpy pandemic recovery.

The airline also said that 99 percent of its U.S. work force of 67,000 had been vaccinated, a sign that mandates can be an effective way for companies to prod their employees to get shots.<<<


Annual employee turnover (taking into account businesses with very high turnover rates) appears to be many times that:

>>>SHRM predicts the annual turnover rate to be close to 19%, and also assumes that the average cost-per-hire to fill a position at $4,129.<<<

 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
As far as I can tell, when push comes to shove, there are not very many employees that actually choose to get fired rather than get vaccinated. It seems to be 1% or less:

>>>Some industry figures have pushed back on staffing fears. Ezekiel J. Emanuel, M.D., vice provost for global initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania and a former White House health policy adviser, pointed to the limited workforce fallout among the summer’s early movers as an acceptable loss for workforce-wide coverage.

“If you look at healthcare systems that have actually mandated this, they’ve retained over 99% of their workforce,” he said in support of the mandates during an August press event. “Their workforce does go along when the employer requires it.”<<<


>>>United Airlines said it would terminate about 600 employees for refusing to comply with its vaccination requirement, putting the company at the forefront of the battle over vaccine mandates as the economy moves through a bumpy pandemic recovery.

The airline also said that 99 percent of its U.S. work force of 67,000 had been vaccinated, a sign that mandates can be an effective way for companies to prod their employees to get shots.<<<


Annual employee turnover (taking into account businesses with very high turnover rates) appears to be many times that:

>>>SHRM predicts the annual turnover rate to be close to 19%, and also assumes that the average cost-per-hire to fill a position at $4,129.<<<

Yeah it's a game of chicken not saying I know who will win. Personally I'm tired and stressed its definetly impacted my hospital but the overtime I'm not complaining about and the extra shift differential they use to entice us to come in up to 12 bucks an hour on top of the overtime.

If people don't want to work I'll take there money that's for sure
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic General
Ivermectin has been around a long time, and is now available as a generic drug. I doubt if it has any patent protection remaining in effect.
In theory it might be possible to get a patent on a new method of using an old drug, or a combination of old drugs.

Mr Borody has filed several U.S. patent applications for a "therapeutic combination of drugs" including ivermectin and methods of treatment. However, it's not at all clear that the applications will be allowed. These types of applications are typically difficult to get allowed, and one of the pending applications has been rejected, at least so far (I only looked at one of the pending applications)

>>>A Sydney gastroenterologist who has been enthusiastically promoting an unapproved Covid-19 treatment, including to Australian politicians and general practitioners, has filed a patent in the US for the same treatment, allowing him to commercialise and profit from it, if approved.

Prof Thomas Borody has been quoted in medical newsletters and publications, and in news outlets including the Financial Review, the Daily Telegraph and the Australian, promoting what he describes as a “triple therapy protocol” to treat and cure Covid-19.<<<


Unless an application was just filed or a non-publication request was filed, the documents filed in a patent application can be viewed at the U.S. Patent Office website:

 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Samurai
I must admit I have no clue as to why healthcare workers refuse the vaccine. They are in constant contact with infected people so you would think they would want to protect themselves. And they are putting their patients at risk also. Unbelievable....
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
One day after the death of Colin Powell, Faux News pounced on the fact that he died of COVID-19 despite being vaccinated. They falsely claimed this as proof that coronavirus vaccines are not effective. Not surprisingly, the facts are quite different from from what Faux claims. The opposite is true.

See this article from NPR News:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/10/20/1047727415/what-to-know-about-the-risk-of-serious-or-fatal-breakthrough-covid-infections

Unvaccinated people test positive and die from COVID-19 at much higher rates than vaccinated people. The rate of infection from COVID-19 is over 5 times higher among the unvaccinated than among the vaccinated. And the rate of death is 12 times higher. (The data in these graphs are from 17 states or regions that report info on COVID-19 incidence and death by vaccination status, as of Sept 4.)
1634770286275.png


Vaccinated people ≥80 years old are 13 times more likely to die of COVID-19 than the average for vaccinated people of all ages. But the death rate for vaccinated people ≥80 years old is similar to the death rate in unvaccinated Americans of all ages.
1634770489026.png


Colin Powell was 84 years old, and he suffered from multiple myeloma, a cancer of bone marrow cells that essentially disabled his immune responses, despite prior vaccination. If anything, Colin Powell's death was brought on by people who refuse to be vaccinated, causing widespread COVID-19 exposure and infection among people who cannot mount their own immune responses.
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
I must admit I have no clue as to why healthcare workers refuse the vaccine. They are in constant contact with infected people so you would think they would want to protect themselves. And they are putting their patients at risk also. Unbelievable....
Simple. Brainwashed. ;) :D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
As far as I can tell, when push comes to shove, there are not very many employees that actually choose to get fired rather than get vaccinated. It seems to be 1% or less:

>>>Some industry figures have pushed back on staffing fears. Ezekiel J. Emanuel, M.D., vice provost for global initiatives at the University of Pennsylvania and a former White House health policy adviser, pointed to the limited workforce fallout among the summer’s early movers as an acceptable loss for workforce-wide coverage.

“If you look at healthcare systems that have actually mandated this, they’ve retained over 99% of their workforce,” he said in support of the mandates during an August press event. “Their workforce does go along when the employer requires it.”<<<


>>>United Airlines said it would terminate about 600 employees for refusing to comply with its vaccination requirement, putting the company at the forefront of the battle over vaccine mandates as the economy moves through a bumpy pandemic recovery.

The airline also said that 99 percent of its U.S. work force of 67,000 had been vaccinated, a sign that mandates can be an effective way for companies to prod their employees to get shots.<<<


Annual employee turnover (taking into account businesses with very high turnover rates) appears to be many times that:

>>>SHRM predicts the annual turnover rate to be close to 19%, and also assumes that the average cost-per-hire to fill a position at $4,129.<<<

I would think the question not asked too frequently is how much of their workforce was lost to Covid vs getting fired?
How many police officers lost their lives to Covid vs on duty actions not Covid? Oh, just read, 64% to Covid, 14% to gun violence. How do you replace those numbers?
How many in the airline industry and on it goes.
 
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