Coronavirus

[GO-NAD!]

You want to force people to have something injected into them against their will? Really?

Yeah! Next thing you know, they'll be executing people that way!

Wait a minute...

 

[Trell]

Some people I know won't vaccinate. They don't seem to know about the things I know (from this thread) that put me at ease with the vaccine but beyond that, they don't care. It's not an information problem. I don't know, I remember when I believed everything I read too. I was young and I had sh!t for brains. But I don't think a lot of the folks, still citing blood clots and undetermined potential future risk of the vaccine, will ever figure out that they themselves aren't intellectually equipped to be experts on freakin' everything. And I do mean everything. It's annoying and I think those people should be publicly beaten.

This whole epidemic is a case study of the Dunning–Kruger effect at levels in our society.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Apparently the FBI, CIA, and NSA are somewhat split on the most likely COVID origin theory, but all three apparently have only low or moderate confidence in the most likely scenario proposed by the respective agencies.

>>>“The U.S. Intelligence Community does not know exactly where, when, or how the COVID-19 virus was transmitted initially but has coalesced around two likely scenarios: either it emerged naturally from human contact with infected animals or it was a laboratory accident,” Assistant Director of National Intelligence for Strategic Communications Amanda Schoch said in a statement.

“While two elements of the IC lean toward the former scenario and one leans more toward the latter — each with low or moderate confidence — the majority of elements within the IC do not believe there is sufficient information to assess one to be more likely than the other,” she added, referring to the FBI, Central Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency.<<<

Intel community: Competing COVID-19 origin theories not ‘more likely than the other’

The U.S. intelligence community said Thursday that it is unsure whether the coronavirus was more likely to have come from a lab or through human contact with infected animals.A statement …

thehill.com

 

[Mr._Clark]

Some people I know won't vaccinate. They don't seem to know about the things I know (from this thread) that put me at ease with the vaccine but beyond that, they don't care. It's not an information problem. I don't know, I remember when I believed everything I read too. I was young and I had sh!t for brains. But I don't think a lot of the folks, still citing blood clots and undetermined potential future risk of the vaccine, will ever figure out that they themselves aren't intellectually equipped to be experts on freakin' everything. And I do mean everything. It's annoying and I think those people should be publicly beaten.

I know a couple in their mid 70s who are stout antivaxers because they believe vaccines caused their grandson's autism (They have not gotten the COVID vaccine). Believing that vaccines cause autism in children strikes me as misguided (at best), but it is especially odd to extrapolate this to a generalized fear of completely different vaccines in adults. They are nice enough people and they don't seem to have any particularly odd beliefs other than when it comes to vaccines.

I struck up a conversation with another couple I know in their late 70s a few weeks ago, and they talked on and on about how many people they had heard about who got blood clots after getting the vaccine, got sick after getting the vaccine, etc. They are also not getting vaccinated (as far as I know). Once again, decent people who seem perfectly normal in most respects.

Unfortunately, there will be some people who die because of their beliefs.

 

[Swerd]

I know a couple in their mid 70s who are stout antivaxers because they believe vaccines caused their grandson's autism (They have not gotten the COVID vaccine). Believing that vaccines cause autism in children strikes me as misguided (at best), but it is especially odd to extrapolate this to a generalized fear of completely different vaccines in adults. They are nice enough people and they don't seem to have any particularly odd beliefs other than when it comes to vaccines.

That story about vaccines causing autism is completely wrong. And it won't go away. It began in the late 1990s with a fraudulent paper written by a British MD named Andrew Wakefield. He falsely claimed that a preservative (thimerosol) in the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine caused autism. He fabricated his data, and he also failed to point out to the journal Lancet that he represented (co-owned?) a company marketing a thimerosol-free MMR vaccine – a clear financial conflict of interest. The Lancet retracted the paper in 2010. Wakefield lost his license to practice medicine in the UK. He now lives in Texas. Where else?

The idea that thimerosol causes autism has been PROVEN to be false. Denmark has a national health service and keeps thorough records of such things as childhood vaccination and incidence of autism. During the early 2000s, Denmark began vaccinating all children with MMR vaccine containing no thimerosol. After about 10 years, their records clearly showed that the incidence of autism continued to rise unabated, despite the absence of thimerosol. It's very rare in science or medicine that something is proved or disproved so clearly.

I struck up a conversation with another couple I know in their late 70s a few weeks ago, and they talked on and on about how many people they had heard about who got blood clots after getting the vaccine, got sick after getting the vaccine, etc. They are also not getting vaccinated (as far as I know). Once again, decent people who seem perfectly normal in most respects.

This reminds me of the story about deaths in the USA due to colorectal cancer. In the early to mid 1980s, colorectal cancer caused about 35 deaths among 100,000 men (light blue line in the graph below), and just under 30 deaths among 100,000 women (light purple line). Once colonoscopy screening began, these deaths began to drop. Some thirty years later (by 2016) this drop was significant and sustained. Early detection of colorectal cancer allows surgery to completely cure the disease. Once a colorectal tumor has spread, surgery, radiation, and chemotherapy can only delay death. So the drop in colorectal cancer deaths is entirely due to early detection.

In the USA, colonoscopy is routinely done, and paid for by health insurance, for all people at least 50 years old. Recently, it was recommended that this screening start at age 45. Still, about 50% of the eligible population ignores this good advice and refuses to get scoped. This reminds me of the vaccine refusers. The only differences are that colorectal cancer is not contagious, unlike COVID-19 – and that colonoscopy is much more invasive than a shot in the arm.

Unfortunately, there will be some people who die because of their beliefs.

It's bad enough to die because of your beliefs, but it's worse to die because of your mistaken beliefs.

 

[highfigh]

Yeah! Next thing you know, they'll be executing people that way!

Wait a minute...

Lethal injection isn't wire-spread, it only happens (usually) after several appeals, it's only used when someone has killed and it only happens in a few states, for a small number of convicted murderers.

You approve of government-mandated injections when someone refuses to follow a government program with lots of mis/dis-information and possible cover-ups by the supposed source country of a global pandemic sounds a bit like the USSR or CCP, doesn't it?

So much for people having control over their lives in some small way. Why not bolt their doors shut and prevent them leaving their homes, as a way to keep them from becoming infected? Oh, sorry, that's what they said China did.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Lethal injection isn't wire-spread, it only happens (usually) after several appeals, it's only used when someone has killed and it only happens in a few states, for a small number of convicted murderers.

You approve of government-mandated injections when someone refuses to follow a government program with lots of mis/dis-information and possible cover-ups by the supposed source country of a global pandemic sounds a bit like the USSR or CCP, doesn't it?

So much for people having control over their lives in some small way. Why not bolt their doors shut and prevent them leaving their homes, as a way to keep them from becoming infected? Oh, sorry, that's what they said China did.

You're reading too much into my comment...

 

[Mr._Clark]

Vietnam is reporting that they detected a "hybrid" of the Indian and UK variants that seems to be spreading quickly there. The initial reports I've seen so far do not include much specific information, so it's not clear (at least to me) that this is actually a significant development.

>>>"Vietnam has uncovered a new COVID-19 variant combining characteristics of the two existing variants first found in India and the UK," Health Minister Nguyen Thanh Long said, describing it as a hybrid of the two known variants.

"That the new one is an Indian variant with mutations that originally belong to the UK variant is very dangerous," he told a government meeting, a recording of which was obtained by Reuters.<<<

Vietnam detects hybrid of Indian and UK COVID-19 variants

Authorities in Vietnam have detected a new coronavirus variant that is a combination of the Indian and UK COVID-19 variants and spreads quickly by air, the health minister said on Saturday.

www.reuters.com

 

[Mr._Clark]

That story about vaccines causing autism is completely wrong. And it won't go away.. . . .

It's bad enough to die because of your beliefs, but it's worse to die because of your mistaken beliefs.

I agree completely about autism and vaccines.

My wife posted a link to a local vaccine clinic on Facebook about a month and a half ago after she got her vaccine, and encouraged others to get the vaccine. One of her Facebook friends responded with "No thanks." (not in-your-face antivax rhetoric, but the woman made it clear she was not getting the vaccine).

It turns out this woman now has COVID and she has been in the ICU under sedation for over week. I do not know any details, but a post by another person said "she is hanging on," which gives me the impression it is very serious I believe she is roughly 40-45. Hopefully she pulls through. I'm not sure what else to say.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I agree completely about autism and vaccines.

My wife posted a link to a local vaccine clinic on Facebook about a month and a half ago after she got her vaccine, and encouraged others to get the vaccine. One of her Facebook friends responded with "No thanks." (not in-your-face antivax rhetoric, but the woman made it clear she was not getting the vaccine).

It turns out this woman now has COVID and she has been in the ICU under sedation for over week. I do not know any details, but a post by another person said "she is hanging on," which gives me the impression it is very serious I believe she is roughly 40-45. Hopefully she pulls through. I'm not sure what else to say.

You are too nice of a person.("hopefully she pulls through")

I don't have much empathy for such folks. Wonder how many people she infected before having a sign and got hospitalized.

 

[Trell]

You are too nice of a person.("hopefully she pulls through")

I don't have much empathy for such folks. Wonder how many people she infected before having a sign and got hospitalized.

And then there is this: 117 staffers sue over Houston hospital’s vaccine mandate, say they don’t want to be ‘guinea pigs’

>>>"A group of 117 unvaccinated staffers from Houston Methodist Hospital filed a lawsuit Friday seeking to avoid the hospital’s coronavirus vaccine mandate, saying it’s unlawful for bosses to require the shots.

The staffers join a growing list of employees challenging compulsory immunizations at businesses, colleges and other workplaces essential to the country’s reopening. Vaccine mandates have faced mounting resistance from anti-vaccination groups and some Republican politicians, even as health officials promote the proven safety of the vaccines and millions of Americans line up to get the shots every week.

The lawsuit against Houston Methodist was filed by Jared Woodfill, a Houston-area attorney and conservative activist. It appears to mirror a legal strategy used by a New York-based law firm, Siri & Glimstad, that is closely aligned with one of the country’s biggest anti-vaccination organizations but unaffiliated with the Houston litigation.

The complaint, filed in state court, says Houston Methodist’s vaccine mandate violates a set of medical ethics standards known as the Nuremberg Code, which was designed to prevent experimentation on human subjects without consent. The code was created after World War II in response to the medical atrocities Nazis committed against prisoners in concentration camps. ..."
<<<

 

[mtrycrafts]

And then there is this: 117 staffers sue over Houston hospital’s vaccine mandate, say they don’t want to be ‘guinea pigs’

>>>"A group of 117 unvaccinated staffers from Houston Methodist Hospital filed a lawsuit Friday seeking to avoid the hospital’s coronavirus vaccine mandate, saying it’s unlawful for bosses to require the shots.

The staffers join a growing list of employees challenging compulsory immunizations at businesses, colleges and other workplaces essential to the country’s reopening. Vaccine mandates have faced mounting resistance from anti-vaccination groups and some Republican politicians, even as health officials promote the proven safety of the vaccines and millions of Americans line up to get the shots every week.

The lawsuit against Houston Methodist was filed by Jared Woodfill, a Houston-area attorney and conservative activist. It appears to mirror a legal strategy used by a New York-based law firm, Siri & Glimstad, that is closely aligned with one of the country’s biggest anti-vaccination organizations but unaffiliated with the Houston litigation.

The complaint, filed in state court, says Houston Methodist’s vaccine mandate violates a set of medical ethics standards known as the Nuremberg Code, which was designed to prevent experimentation on human subjects without consent. The code was created after World War II in response to the medical atrocities Nazis committed against prisoners in concentration camps. ..."
<<<

What morons. Experimentation is over. Had a trial and it works.
These idiots are the ones who contaminate the gene pool.

 

[NINaudio]

Since the standard response of most of the people who don't want to get vaccinated to those who were afraid of getting Covid in the beginning of this pandemic was: "Well then, just stay home." I feel that should be our response to them. Don't want to get vaccinated because you're afraid of the vaccine, well then just stay home.

 

[cpp]

We had this anti everything guy, ( i mean everything and a racist to boot) in our neighborhood that pretty much went around bad mouthing the vaccine and those that fell for the get vaccinated govt push. His wife told our HOA pres, that Sat he was admitted to the hospital with covid. This ex military ( nothing against that as I'm a Vet myself) always stayed fit felt he had the flu, but after being tested turned out to be covid -19, his breathing got labored so in he went.. In our neighborhood of 21 homes, we have 3 people that have not been vaccinated and MR Anit-vax and his wife are 2. The other guy can't at this time due to his chemo treatments, but his wife has. We heard today, his wife is scheduled for her vaccine Wed. Sometimes in life, jerks get what they deserve.

 

[Mr._Clark]

Since the standard response of most of the people who don't want to get vaccinated to those who were afraid of getting Covid in the beginning of this pandemic was: "Well then, just stay home." I feel that should be our response to them. Don't want to get vaccinated because you're afraid of the vaccine, well then just stay home.

Yeah, but many (if not most) of the anti vaxers apparently believe the virus is harmless, or close to harmless. Their view seems to be “the virus is a hoax, and masks and vaccines are part of the hoax.” The woman I mentioned in my prior post who refused the vaccine was also anti mask.

As far as I can tell, these people are going to continue spreading the virus amongst themselves while continuing to proclaim it a hoax. (I’m using “hoax” broadly to include those who believe the virus is real but assert that the danger associated with the virus is way overblown, etc)

In other words, I suspect that the majority of the vaccine holdouts are not afraid of the virus.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Yeah, but many (if not most) of the anti vaxers apparently believe the virus is harmless, or close to harmless. Their view seems to be “the virus is a hoax, and masks and vaccines are part of the hoax.” The woman I mentioned in my prior post who refused the vaccine was also anti mask.

As far as I can tell, these people are going to continue spreading the virus amongst themselves while continuing to proclaim it a hoax. (I’m using “hoax” broadly to include those who believe the virus is real but assert that the danger associated with the virus is way overblown, etc)

In other words, I suspect that the majority of the vaccine holdouts are not afraid of the virus.

While I agree with @NINaudio that we should be telling anti-vaccers to stay home if they're afraid of/don't want the shot, I also agree that (from being misinformed/stupid) they aren't afraid of the virus.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I thought I'd give an update on how Nova Scotia is doing in our battle against the COVID-19 3rd wave:

We had been happily toodling along at low single digit numbers of daily new cases until mid-April. Then, numbers started to dramatically increase and on April 22nd, when we hit 38 new cases, restrictions were ramped up to combat it. On April 27th, when we hit 96 new cases, those restrictions were further enhanced to:

Gatherings, schools and daycare

• Nova Scotians can only gather indoors or outdoors with their household bubble, which is the people they live with
• households of two or less people can socialize with one or two others but they must be the same people for this two-week period
• no unnecessary travel between communities; a community is defined as the municipality where you live - people should stay as close to home as possible when accessing essential or necessary services or products
• all public and private schools are closed
• day cares will remain open, with the focus on providing service to those providing essential services or have no other child-care option

Masking

• mandatory masking for staff, visitors and children over two years old in indoor child-care settings
• mandatory masking outdoors where physical distancing cannot be maintained, including playgrounds and parks
• in private indoor workplaces such as offices or warehouses, masks are mandatory in all common areas, places where there is interaction with the public, areas with poor ventilation, and areas where distance cannot be maintained

Retail and business

• retail stores are closed for in-person service unless those stores provide services essential to the life, health or personal safety of individuals and animals. These stores can remain open at 25 per cent capacity and include those that provide:
• food
• pharmaceutical products, medicine and medical devices
• personal hygiene products
• cleaning products
• baby and child products
• gas stations and garages
• computer and cellphone service and repair
• electronic and office supplies
• hardware supplies
• pet and animal supplies.
• restaurants and licensed establishments are closed for dine-in service, but contactless take-out or delivery is allowed
• Nova Scotia Liquor Commission stores can remain open at 25 per cent capacity
• personal services such as hair salons, barber shops and spas are closed
• regulated and unregulated health professions can remain open with an approved COVID-19 plan
• Casino Nova Scotia in Halifax and Sydney and First Nations gaming establishments and VLTs must close

Events, recreation, arts and culture

• wedding and funeral ceremonies can have five people, plus officiants
• no social events, special events, festivals, arts/cultural events, sports events, faith gatherings, wedding receptions, or funeral visitation or receptions
• no meetings or training except mental health and addictions support groups, which can have 10 people with physical distancing and masks
• virtual gatherings and performances can be held with a maximum of five people in one location
• all fitness, recreational and sports facilities are closed
• licensed and unlicensed establishments cannot host activities such as darts, cards, pool and bowling
• indoor fitness facilities like gyms and yoga studios and sport and recreation facilities like pools, arenas, tennis courts and large multipurpose recreation facilities are closed
• businesses and organizations offering a wide variety of indoor recreation activities are closed, such as indoor play areas, arcades, climbing facilities, dance classes and music lessons
• outdoor recreation activities, including individual sports, are allowed and encouraged; outdoor fitness and recreation businesses and organized clubs can operate with a maximum of five people and physical distancing
• museums, libraries and the Art Gallery of Nova Scotia are closed, but libraries can offer pick-up and drop-off of books and other materials

Long-term care/special care

• there will be no visitors or volunteers allowed inside long-term care facilities except for designated care providers and no visits to the community
• all adult day programs for seniors closed
• all homes licensed by the Department of Community Service under the Homes for Special Care Act cannot have visitors and residents cannot have community access
• all adult day programs for persons with disabilities funded by the Department of Community Services will be closed except for scheduled vaccine clinics at three of these programs

People who do not follow the public health measures can be fined. For example, the fine is now $2,000 for each person at an illegal gathering.

These restrictions are still in effect, but will be gradually reduced, starting on Wednesday.

How effective were they? We peaked at 227 new cases on May 7th, followed by a gradual decline and today, we have 17 new cases. Active case numbers reached well over 2000 at the peak, but are now below 500. Hospital cases put some added strain on our health care system and we had about 20 deaths over the past month. But, hospital bed/ICU capacity was never seriously threatened.

Vaccination progress has been very good and we have passed 50% of the population who have received at least one shot. Since older people were prioritized for vaccination, 3rd wave infections have skewed towards younger people. My hope is that we can see a high percentage of the populace having received their second doses before we get hit by the so-called Indian variant.

Meanwhile, the province of Manitoba has become a COVID $hit$how.
Manitoba officials didn't heed warnings about a 3rd COVID-19 wave. Now hospitals are overwhelmed | CBC News
I'm not bragging about Nova Scotia's accomplishment to wrestle the numbers down, I'm just saying that you can't be half-assed about public health measures when trying to address a serious outbreak.

 

[Mikado463]

I thought I'd give an update on how Nova Scotia is doing in our battle against the COVID-19 3rd wave:

We had been happily toodling along at low single digit numbers of daily new cases until mid-April. Then, numbers started to dramatically increase and on April 22nd, when we hit 38 new cases, restrictions were ramped up to combat it. On April 27th, when we hit 96 new cases, those restrictions were further enhanced to:


These restrictions are still in effect, but will be gradually reduced, starting on Wednesday.

How effective were they? We peaked at 227 new cases on May 7th, followed by a gradual decline and today, we have 17 new cases. Active case numbers reached well over 2000 at the peak, but are now below 500. Hospital cases put some added strain on our health care system and we had about 20 deaths over the past month. But, hospital bed/ICU capacity was never seriously threatened.

Vaccination progress has been very good and we have passed 50% of the population who have received at least one shot. Since older people were prioritized for vaccination, 3rd wave infections have skewed towards younger people. My hope is that we can see a high percentage of the populace having received their second doses before we get hit by the so-called Indian variant.

Meanwhile, the province of Manitoba has become a COVID $hit$how.
Manitoba officials didn't heed warnings about a 3rd COVID-19 wave. Now hospitals are overwhelmed | CBC News
I'm not bragging about Nova Scotia's accomplishment to wrestle the numbers down, I'm just saying that you can't be half-assed about public health measures when trying to address a serious outbreak.

Love Nova Scotia, one of my more memorable vacations years ago was the overnight train from Montreal to Halifax, rented a house down @ the 'Digby Gut' for a week and ate scallops and lobster like there was no tomorrow !

Glad things are improving up your way !

 

[mtrycrafts]

... Sometimes in life, jerks get what they deserve.

At times, just not soon enough.

 

[Swerd]

I saw a decent news article on the mRNA technology that has been so successful in corona virus vaccines. The article goes into how it was first discovered in the early 1990s, how it's such an improvement over previous vaccine making methods, and how it might be applied to vaccines against other viral diseases, as well as treatment for cancer, auto-immune diseases and others.

Now proven against coronavirus, mRNA can do so much more | CNN

The messenger RNA technology used to make Moderna's and Pfizer/BioNTech's wildly successful coronavirus vaccines is being tested not only in other vaccines, but as a cancer treatment, gene therapy and more.

www.cnn.com