M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Chief
An article published today (first link below) states:

"A single dose of vaccine boosts protection against SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus variants, but only in those with previous COVID-19, a study has found."

This is curious to me:

"It remains unclear precisely how much protection is offered by T cells. Interestingly, the mutations in the Kent and South Africa variants here resulted in T cell immunity which could be reduced, enhanced or unchanged compared to the original strain, depending on genetic differences between people."

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/220613/prior-sars-cov-2-infection-boosts-response-variants/

Here's the paper describing the results of the study:

 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
This is curious to me:

"It remains unclear precisely how much protection is offered by T cells. Interestingly, the mutations in the Kent and South Africa variants here resulted in T cell immunity which could be reduced, enhanced or unchanged compared to the original strain, depending on genetic differences between people."
In the Science paper, look in the abstract for the sentence I marked in bold:
SARS-CoV-2 vaccine rollout has coincided with the spread of variants of concern. We investigated if single dose vaccination, with or without prior infection, confers cross protective immunity to variants. We analyzed T and B cell responses after first dose vaccination with the Pfizer/BioNTech mRNA vaccine BNT162b2 in healthcare workers (HCW) followed longitudinally, with or without prior Wuhan-Hu-1 SARS-CoV-2 infection. After one dose, individuals with prior infection showed enhanced T cell immunity, antibody secreting memory B cell response to spike and neutralizing antibodies effective against B.1.1.7 and B.1.351. By comparison, HCW receiving one vaccine dose without prior infection showed reduced immunity against variants. B.1.1.7 and B.1.351 spike mutations resulted in increased, abrogated or unchanged T cell responses depending on human leukocyte antigen (HLA) polymorphisms. Single dose vaccination with BNT162b2 in the context of prior infection with a heterologous variant substantially enhances neutralizing antibody responses against variants.
Let me guess. You probably understood things fine until you ran into the words human leukocyte antigen (HLA) polymorphisms.

I know many scientists who, like myself, know some immunology, but learned it on the side instead of having it as their main line of work. The whole topic of what HLA is, how it works, and how it varies widely among different populations of humans is a very difficult topic. I think I understand it well enough to nod my head intelligently while keeping my mouth shut. But I would never try to explain it to anyone.

When all else fails, look it up in Wikipedia. (If you read & understand all of this, please let me know. I'll buy you a beer. And while we're drinking the beer, please explain it to me ;).)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_leukocyte_antigen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_histocompatibility_complex

To oversimplify, 'HLA polymorphisms' in this context means that humans are not a homogeneous population. There are genetic differences among different populations of humans. One major type of difference is the wide & complex variations in how the immune system functions at recognizing and processing foreign antigens.
 
Last edited:
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Chief
Let me guess. You probably understood things fine until you ran into the words human leukocyte antigen (HLA) polymorphisms.
I'm not sure actually, I don't really remember. I seem to recall that is about where my eyes glazed over and a I took an involuntary nap! o_O

[/QUOTE]To oversimplify, 'HLA polymorphisms' in this context means that humans are not a homogeneous population. There are genetic differences among different populations of humans. One major type of difference is the wide & complex variations in how the immune system functions at recognizing and processing foreign antigens.
[/QUOTE]
That's helpful.

Some of the cases involving identical twins are interesting. Kelly and Kimberly Standard are identical twins, but only one had high blood pressure and diabetes. However, it was the one without these preexisting conditions that had a much more severe case of COVID.


This is getting off track, but I was surprised when I first read that some genetic changes could be passed on to later generations.

 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
To finish what I had to say about genetic polymorphisms, a simple example in humans is eye color. There are different eye colors, all of them genetically determined, but none are considered mutations. They are simply naturally occurring differences. Or, in scientificese, polymorphisms. Hair color or blood types are other more complex examples. On the extreme end of complexity is the HLA complex.

When I was a young scientist, I first learned about HLA function and its wide variety of genetic polymorphisms. At the time, we were just beginning to understand what went on at the molecular level. Much more was learned in the next 10-20 years. What really impressed me was the whole subject of HLA function and its wide variety of genetic polymorphisms was first studied in lab mice (in mice it was called MHC, murine histocompatability complex) using classical genetic methods, when molecular biology was in it's infancy. Their early efforts at understanding this very difficult subject were largely correct.

Inbred strains of lab mice were available that allowed those genetic studies to be done. They were the equivalent of twins, but every individual mouse of a given inbred strain was genetically identical to all the other mice of that strain. It was soon realized that different inbred strains of mice reacted differently to the same immune challenges.

Human populations, for the most part, are genetically outbred, like wild mice and most other animals in the wild. Except in isolated locations like small Pacific islands, or West Virginia. That's the major reason why clinical trials of vaccines, as well as other pharmaceuticals, have to be done on such a large scale.
This is getting off track, but I was surprised when I first read that some genetic changes could be passed on to later generations.
Epigenetics is a subject I understand much better. In essence, we have many genes in us that are turned on only briefly, or in certain tissues but not in others. If the genes in all our cells are the same, why is muscle tissue so different than bone or brain? Mutations or polymorphisms are not involved. Instead, there are chemical switches in genes that allow them to be turned on or off during development that account for this.

I worked in that field in cancer research, as it was realized that many of the so-called tumor suppressor genes were regulated by epigenetic mechanisms, where they were aberrantly turned off in certain cancers. Drugs were found that could reverse that, by acting through epigenetic mechanisms. Some of these drugs have actually worked well enough to be used in chemotherapy.
 
Last edited:
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
How quickly can case numbers go off the rails? One month ago, Nova Scotia had a 7-day average of 3 new daily cases. Mid-April was 4.5. As of today, it is 94.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Well, it's been two days since my second shot and I've had zero side effects. Same with wifey. My arm is still tender, but that's about it.
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Field Marshall
How quickly can case numbers go off the rails? One month ago, Nova Scotia had a 7-day average of 3 new daily cases. Mid-April was 4.5. As of today, it is 94.
Yep they are on lock down now. My yearly trip to see my cousin in Bridgewater and do some sailing is a no go now. .
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Yep they are on lock down now. My yearly trip to see my cousin in Bridgewater and do some sailing is a no go now. .
Yup, our restrictions were ramped up about 10 days ago. Even before that, you would have to self-isolate for two weeks upon entry into the province.

Although inconvenient, I don't see any alternative to enhanced restrictions. Especially when I see what happening in provinces like Alberta. They are reporting 4X our daily cases per capita and have a test positivity rate of 12%, yet their restrictions are less than ours! Our test positivity rate in NS is still under 1% with test numbers having skyrocketed over the last couple of weeks.

But then, we don't have nonsense like this going on: Alberta Health Services exploring legal options after hundreds attend rodeo | CBC News
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Chief
I've been trying to understand the reasoning behind the anti-(COVID)vaccination crowd. This piece provides a bit of insight:

What Are No-Vaxxers Thinking? - The Atlantic
It’s an interesting article but the reasons given by the no-vaxxers don’t seem logical. To my mind the question is “based on the available evidence am I more likely to have significant negative health consequences from the vaccine or the virus?” It seems like a no-brainer

(I don’t think attempting to evade the virus indefinitely is a realistic option, and it doesn’t sound like very many of the anti-vaxxers are planning to try to avoid the virus)
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
It’s an interesting article but the reasons given by the no-vaxxers don’t seem logical. To my mind the question is “based on the available evidence am I more likely to have significant negative health consequences from the vaccine or the virus?” It seems like a no-brainer

(I don’t think attempting to evade the virus indefinitely is a realistic option, and it doesn’t sound like very many of the anti-vaxxers are planning to try to avoid the virus)
They don't seem logical, because there isn't any logical reason to avoid getting vaccinated, beyond the allergic or immuno-compromised portion of the population. It's a very tribal mindset and if you want to maintain those tribal bona fides, well, you must adopt that mindset.

It's like sharing fake news - you know, deep down, that it's fake. But, that isn't the point. The point is that it is in keeping with a world view common to your cohort.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
The Wall Street Journal reported this morning that there are 277 COVID19 vaccines under development worldwide. I could understand tens of vaccines being developed, but 277? What possible justification could there be for that many development projects?
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Chief
They don't seem logical, because there isn't any logical reason to avoid getting vaccinated, beyond the allergic or immuno-compromised portion of the population. It's a very tribal mindset and if you want to maintain those tribal bona fides, well, you must adopt that mindset.

It's like sharing fake news - you know, deep down, that it's fake. But, that isn't the point. The point is that it is in keeping with a world view common to your cohort.
A lot of no-vaxxers say they distrust the media, drug companies, the government, etc. but a lot of these same people apparently believe all sorts of wacky stuff from sources that are at best highly dubious. Perhaps, as you suggested, they know deep down it's fake but they "believe" it at some level because it's consistent with their world view.

The school in Miami that barred contact between vaccinated teachers and students is apparently holding firm on their wacky theories. It's unclear to me if the people who run the school actually believe that standing next to a vaccinated person can cause miscarriages. My initial impression was that it must be a political stunt (a retaliation of sorts). Who knows, perhaps they honestly believe it. At some point, attempting to understand this sort of thinking becomes tiresome.


>>>MIAMI -- A private school founded by an anti-vaccination activist in South Florida has warned teachers and staff against taking the COVID-19 vaccine, saying it will not employ anyone who has received the shot.

The Centner Academy in Miami sent a notice to parents on Monday informing them of a new policy for its two campuses for about 300 students from pre-kindergarten through eighth grade. Teachers or staff who have already taken the vaccine were told to continue reporting to school but to stay separated from students. . . .

Centner stood by the decision Tuesday in a statement sent to The Associated Press, which featured the biologically impossible claim that unvaccinated women have experienced miscarriages and other reproductive problems just by standing in proximity to vaccinated people. . . .

Earlier this month, Centner criticized measures by the CDC to curb the spread of the virus, and said her school went against the guidelines from the moment it reopened in September.

"We did not follow any of the tyrannic measures that were in place. I did not force our kids to wear a mask," Centner said while attending a "Health and Freedom" rally for a Republican candidate that featured supporters of former President Donald Trump and critics of public health restrictions in Tulsa, Oklahoma. <<<



>>>MIAMI — A fifth-grade math and science teacher peddled a bogus conspiracy theory on Wednesday to students at Centner Academy, a private school in Miami, warning them that they should not hug parents who had been vaccinated against the coronavirus for more than five seconds because they might be exposed to harmful vaccine shedding.<<<

 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
The Wall Street Journal reported this morning that there are 277 COVID19 vaccines under development worldwide. I could understand tens of vaccines being developed, but 277? What possible justification could there be for that many development projects?
Maybe to get a single dose that is as close to 100% effectiveness as possible? I do agree that 277 seems excessive unless every country plans on having their own variant.
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
277 does seem like a lot, but I suppose more is better in this case. I personally feel the mRNA vaccines are the best bet as they can be tweaked in a very short time.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
The Wall Street Journal reported this morning that there are 277 COVID19 vaccines under development worldwide. I could understand tens of vaccines being developed, but 277? What possible justification could there be for that many development projects?
I can think of a couple of possibilities.

One, the possible profits for a vaccine that will probably be required for the foreseeable future, when you consider the likelihood of needing annual booster shots.

Two, vaccine nationalism. The US blocked export of COVID vaccines for many months, to ensure their own population had adequate access. That left countries like Canada in the lurch, because we had allowed our capacity to develop and manufacture vaccines to dwindle away. When you can't count on a secure supply from other countries, some nations will hedge their bets and develop their own. That's not a dig at the US. When you have voters to answer to, it would be difficult to explain why your citizens can't access a vaccine while it's being exported. So, I get it.

Vaccine envy: Why can't Canada make COVID-19 doses at home? | CBC News

That's one the downfalls of globalisation. It makes sense to import products when they can be made more efficiently elsewhere - except when a crisis arises and you no longer have access.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Chief
I saw no mention of July 2019, but the paper says the SARS-Cov-2 virus was already in Italy by September 2019. Their evidence is pretty good.

In an Italian-sponsored clinical trial of lung cancer screening methods, 959 people, without lung cancer symptoms, were enrolled. Blood samples were taken and archived. Later, these blood samples were tested for SARS-CoV-2, using a test specific for antibodies directed against the receptor binding domain (RBD) of SARS-CoV-2. These antibodies are said to be specific for SARS-CoV-2 and do not cross-react with antibodies directed against other corona viruses. The tests showed overall that 111 (11.6%) individuals out of 959 were positive for SARS-CoV-2. 14% of these positive blood samples were taken as of September 2019. None of these people had any known symptoms of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

The Wuhan, China outbreak occurred at the end of December 2019. Now, there's good evidence for SARS-Cov-2 circulating among asymptomatic people in Italy several months earlier. We have to rethink the origins of this virus, and be open to reshaping the history of the pandemic.
Here's a recent video by John Campbell discussing the Italian antibody study published last year. There isn't a lot of new material in the video, but his discussion is somewhat interesting.

 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I can think of a couple of possibilities.

One, the possible profits for a vaccine that will probably be required for the foreseeable future, when you consider the likelihood of needing annual booster shots.

Two, vaccine nationalism. The US blocked export of COVID vaccines for many months, to ensure their own population had adequate access. That left countries like Canada in the lurch, because we had allowed our capacity to develop and manufacture vaccines to dwindle away. When you can't count on a secure supply from other countries, some nations will hedge their bets and develop their own. That's not a dig at the US. When you have voters to answer to, it would be difficult to explain why your citizens can't access a vaccine while it's being exported. So, I get it.

Vaccine envy: Why can't Canada make COVID-19 doses at home? | CBC News

That's one the downfalls of globalisation. It makes sense to import products when they can be made more efficiently elsewhere - except when a crisis arises and you no longer have access.
I understand what you're saying, but addressing that issue doesn't require developing a unique vaccine. If Canada enabled the construction of a manufacturing site and ensured the raw materials supply chain (no small feat, I've read), a successful vaccine could be licensed. 277 COVID19 vaccines seems to this layman as a silly number.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I understand what you're saying, but addressing that issue doesn't require developing a unique vaccine. If Canada enabled the construction of a manufacturing site and ensured the raw materials supply chain (no small feat, I've read), a successful vaccine could be licensed. 277 COVID19 vaccines seems to this layman as a silly number.
Oh, I agree. 277 different vaccines is a vast waste of time effort and expense.
 

newsletter
  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top