T

TankTop5

Audioholic Chief
More curious if he could....
Could you say something more stupid?
How about we see if you can? COVID-19 is very lethal to the elderly with several other conditions such as high blood pressure and obesity. These people should wear a mask with a valve as it filters the air THEY breath in and not the air they breathe out. Nearly everyone else is at near insignificant mortality rates so we should protect our most at risk the most.

I said nothing about everyone else wearing a mask so you shouldn’t read anything into that. I simply said who we should worry about the most.

I will say we have millions of elderly in senior care facilities who have no visitors, eat off a styrofoam plate daily and are very lonely. We should ask them what they want, would they risk their health for a little personal contact? That’s got to be hard at the end of your life to spend your last months by yourself because that’s what’s best for you.

I just came back from Seattle visiting my mom to have a meeting and decide if it’s time for hospice. Luckily she did well for herself and she was wheeled out onto a patio overlooking the Puget Sound where I could visit with her from 20’ away. I know she wanted a hug but it wasn’t allowed.

Given the choice what do you think her choice would have been?

LET ME SEE IF YOU CAN ANSWER lord helmet HEAD!
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Field Marshall
Yes, that's why CDC guidance says valved masks should not be used as they don't provide for source control. They are not allowed for use at my job either for this reason.
I disagree, old susceptible people should use valved masks. This is really an exercise to save our elderly most susceptible, most everyone else isn’t at risk.
You disagree with the CDC's guidance? Or do you disagree that they don't provide source control? I guess I'm confused because my reply was a statement of fact, not really sure what there is to disagree on. I mean, there are plenty of non-valved masks that have good filtering efficiency as well to protect people.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Full Audioholic
How about we see if you can? COVID-19 is very lethal to the elderly with several other conditions such as high blood pressure and obesity. These people should wear a mask with a valve as it filters the air THEY breath in and not the air they breathe out. Nearly everyone else is at near insignificant mortality rates so we should protect our most at risk the most.

I said nothing about everyone else wearing a mask so you shouldn’t read anything into that. I simply said who we should worry about the most.

I will say we have millions of elderly in senior care facilities who have no visitors, eat off a styrofoam plate daily and are very lonely. We should ask them what they want, would they risk their health for a little personal contact? That’s got to be hard at the end of your life to spend your last months by yourself because that’s what’s best for you.

I just came back from Seattle visiting my mom to have a meeting and decide if it’s time for hospice. Luckily she did well for herself and she was wheeled out onto a patio overlooking the Puget Sound where I could visit with her from 20’ away. I know she wanted a hug but it wasn’t allowed.

Given the choice what do you think her choice would have been?

LET ME SEE IF YOU CAN ANSWER lord helmet HEAD!
Why not have everyone wear N95 masks without valves so that the masks prevent spread by an elderly person who has the virus? I'm not aware of any benefits of a valved N95 mask compared to a non-valved N95 mask.

I wear 3M 8210 N95 masks. I bought them at clinicalsuppliesusa.com These N95 masks do not have a valve so they filter the air I exhale (protects others) and also filter air I inhale (protects me).
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Field Marshall
Why not have everyone wear N95 masks without valves so that the masks prevent spread by an elderly person who has the virus? I'm not aware of any benefits of a valved N95 mask compared to a non-valved N95 mask.

I wear 3M 8210 N95 masks. I bought them at clinicalsuppliesusa.com These N95 masks do not have a valve so they filter the air I exhale (protects others) and also filter air I inhale (protects me).
That would be more logical. And in regards to the elderly being most at risk, there are plenty of other people with conditions that put them at elevated risk as well. 1 out of every 8 people in this country has heart disease, 1 in 7 have diabetes, and 1 in 12 have asthma (all data pulled from CDC website: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/diseases-and-conditions.htm). That's a whole lot of people at elevated risk.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Chief
You disagree with the CDC's guidance? Or do you disagree that they don't provide source control? I guess I'm confused because my reply was a statement of fact, not really sure what there is to disagree on. I mean, there are plenty of non-valved masks that have good filtering efficiency as well to protect people.
You disagree with the CDC's guidance? Or do you disagree that they don't provide source control? I guess I'm confused because my reply was a statement of fact, not really sure what there is to disagree on. I mean, there are plenty of non-valved masks that have good filtering efficiency as well to protect people.
Maybe I mean it more as an intent of purpose rather than a solution, the theory of a valved mask protects the wearer. You all mean well but I wonder if our seniors and infirmed would sacrifice some safety for some time with their family. I think that’s what people mean when they say the cure may be worse than the disease.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Field Marshall
Maybe I mean it more as an intent of purpose rather than a solution, the theory of a valved mask protects the wearer. You all mean well but I wonder if our seniors and infirmed would sacrifice some safety for some time with their family. I think that’s what people mean when they say the cure may be worse than the disease.
But a non-valved mask protects all parties involved, not just the party wearing the mask. That is the point of the CDC's guidelines.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Chief
Ahh, you're anti-science. Got it.
You know who dies the fastest in retirement homes? The people who don’t have family or friends that visit them often. Furthermore it’s scientifically proven that people with more close friends live longer than those who don’t. I’m not anti mask or anti science, I’m simply pointing out in this current pandemic we’re kinda dammed if we do and dammed if we don’t.

For a theoretical physicist you’re not real smart.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
I disagree, old susceptible people should use valved masks. This is really an exercise to save our elderly most susceptible, most everyone else isn’t at risk.
At this point, the elderly aren't the most vulnerable because they aren't mingling with large crowds, in enclosed places, although they are at the highest risk in general terms if they were engaging in the same contact with crowds,as other age groups.

After checking my masks, I found that the exhaust valve isn't filtered, just has a rubber diaphragm but they still filter the incoming air, so it helps when others are wearing a mask. as long as the wearer of this type of mask isn't in a small space and remaining very close to others, I see no reason to avoid these but I'll be buying different masks today. That said, I tested negative, so I wouldn't be a source of the virus.

Those who have tested positive really need to stay at home but non-wearers (and the pinheads who don't cover their mouth and/or nose) need to be slapped.
 
Last edited:
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
You know who dies the fastest in retirement homes? The people who don’t have family or friends that visit them often. Furthermore it’s scientifically proven that people with more close friends live longer than those who don’t. I’m not anti mask or anti science, I’m simply pointing out in this current pandemic we’re kinda dammed if we do and dammed if we don’t.
Well, your first comment is true but even before COVID, most people who were in retirement homes weren't visited often, once they reached certain ages and conditions. They generally have a life span after entering and unfortunately, it's not very long. Once some people started cramming COVID patients into these places, the residents died at an alarming rate, but that doesn't prevent at least one of these DBs from crowing about how great their response has been and the main DB I'm referring to is governor of the state with the most deaths.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
At this point, the elderly aren't the most vulnerable because they aren't mingling with large crowds, in enclosed places, although they are at the highest risk in general terms if they were engaging in the same contact with crowds,as other age groups.
Finally, the authorities, at least some of them, are acknowledging that private gatherings, usually in homes, are currently the most common spreading events. And these gatherings are the most common cause of vulnerable people still being infected. I know this sounds callus, but I'm finding it increasingly difficult to have any sympathy for stupid people. This isn't like March or April, anyone who's conscious knows how this virus is spread, and yet many people are still having family gatherings in small residential rooms with poor ventilation and are not even wearing masks. Billy Joel was wrong. Mostly the dumb die young.

Those who have tested positive really need to stay at home but non-wearers (and the pinheads who don't cover their mouth and/or nose) need to be slapped.
I couldn't agree more. The fitness center I used to go to recently posted a video on Facebook of some members talking about important workouts are to their well-being. In the video, one member was not wearing a mask at all, and one young man had his nose sticking out of his mask, covering only his mouth. I get pretty annoyed about the lax enforcement of mask wearing at that location, so I posted a comment calling them out about their ineffective policies. They had the nerve to respond that they allowed members to adjust their masks to make it easier to speak. Such baloney. I've seen the young jerk with his nose sticking out working out quite a bit, and he almost never has his mask adjusted properly. When I worked out there (I recently switched locations) I consistently found 25-50% of all males working out there were not wearing masks properly. Most of the transgressors were old men (65+), who you would think would be more cautious, but they're apparently too stupid to be cautious. So dumb.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Ninja
Maybe I mean it more as an intent of purpose rather than a solution, the theory of a valved mask protects the wearer. You all mean well but I wonder if our seniors and infirmed would sacrifice some safety for some time with their family. I think that’s what people mean when they say the cure may be worse than the disease.
I know you're simply thinking of people that haven't been able to see their families, but this line of thinking (albeit, compassionate from you) is where a lot of the issues we are seeing come from.

You aren't advocating for not wearing masks at all. That's obvious. However, saying someone can wear a valve mask that lets them breath out potentially harmful particles while protecting themselves when around "people that aren't as prone to die" is why so many more are dying or getting infected that shouldn't be. The purpose of the masks is to protect the other people from the mask wearer's potential "germs". While some masks also protect the wearer, that's not the main intent of the masks for this purpose.

Here's why. If a person wants to see their grandkids great. We'll use my grandmother (87) as that person. She isn't in a nursing home or any sort of home, but let's say she is for this argument. She wants to see me and her great-grandkids and my parents want to see their kid and grandkids. Well, my parents are in the age range where if they get it, they might be toast. My mom has an auto-immune disorder so no vaccine for her.

We all wear masks when out around non-family. For the folks in my house, that's almost never. Kids aren't in school learning so that is a big layer of protection as they are tiny disease spreaders even without COVID. So, if great-grandma comes over wearing proposed valve mask and everyone else is safe and wears their masks there is still a risk of infection. Not that great-grandmother will get it, but spread it to everyone else. Her kids, her grandkids, her great-grandkids. Great grandma could be asymptomatic and have no idea.

So that ONE visit to help her mental health about being lonely during this time could potentially infect me, my kids, and my parents. Who could then spread to to all sorts of people (maybe less so since they wear masks, but still). This could potentially kill both my parents and leave me and my wife with life long issues and maybe my kids too.

If we think of this whole issue like that, then that risk isn't' worth it one bit. Not even close. HOWEVER, if we can get great grandma a mask that protects her AND everyone around her, that risk is very minimal. That's how we need to look at things.

So when people seem to go off the rails saying people with your logic (again, compassionate, heart in the right place) saying you're anti science and you are thinking "how the hell could they think that?" Now you know why. I know (especially from your responses after) that you aren't anti science and are just trying to think of ways to keep certain folks safe, but also try to help their happiness, but there are things you may not have thought of. Nothing wrong with that, but that's why we need to listen to folks that know more about this stuff than us (the CDC, and numerous other organizations). They say a certain type of mask is bad, OK, let's find one that isn't.

We have to think critically and remove emotion from this (this is for people in general) and rely on experts to tell us the best path forward. Don't let the fact that information may change sway you toward thinking the experts don't know what they're doing, that may just mean the experts learned something that mad them change their thinking.

Too many things in this country are centered on how it affects "ME" instead of how it affects "US". We don't think enough about each other, but instead focus on what we want and how it affects us if we don't get it. We've got to start thinking like a nation as a whole and not let this "personal freedom" nonsense get in the way of us coming out of this on the other side. Again, this is directed to nobody in particular, just venting.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Ninja
Finally, the authorities, at least some of them, are acknowledging that private gatherings, usually in homes, are currently the most common spreading events. And these gatherings are the most common cause of vulnerable people still being infected. I know this sounds callus, but I'm finding it increasingly difficult to have any sympathy for stupid people. This isn't like March or April, anyone who's conscious knows how this virus is spread, and yet many people are still having family gatherings in small residential rooms with poor ventilation and are not even wearing masks. Billy Joel was wrong. Mostly the dumb die young.



I couldn't agree more. The fitness center I used to go to recently posted a video on Facebook of some members talking about important workouts are to their well-being. In the video, one member was not wearing a mask at all, and one young man had his nose sticking out of his mask, covering only his mouth. I get pretty annoyed about the lax enforcement of mask wearing at that location, so I posted a comment calling them out about their ineffective policies. They had the nerve to respond that they allowed members to adjust their masks to make it easier to speak. Such baloney. I've seen the young jerk with his nose sticking out working out quite a bit, and he almost never has his mask adjusted properly. When I worked out there (I recently switched locations) I consistently found 25-50% of all males working out there were not wearing masks properly. Most of the transgressors were old men (65+), who you would think would be more cautious, but they're apparently too stupid to be cautious. So dumb.
Like I posted below, all anyone (well, not everyone, but too many) people think about is themselves and how this is inconvenient to them. People need to get over themselves and realize how insignificant they really are in the grand scheme of things. If nose over mask moron infects even one person, he should be able to be held liable for anything that happens to that person. Obviously there is no way to do that, but still.

People perfectly understand why drinking and driving is bad. They could kill someone. But there are too many that simply don't care about that enough to not do it. Not wearing a mask is a victimless crime to them and they are dead wrong. People are too selfish and it's starting to be a big problem.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Chief
I know you're simply thinking of people that haven't been able to see their families, but this line of thinking (albeit, compassionate from you) is where a lot of the issues we are seeing come from.

You aren't advocating for not wearing masks at all. That's obvious. However, saying someone can wear a valve mask that lets them breath out potentially harmful particles while protecting themselves when around "people that aren't as prone to die" is why so many more are dying or getting infected that shouldn't be. The purpose of the masks is to protect the other people from the mask wearer's potential "germs". While some masks also protect the wearer, that's not the main intent of the masks for this purpose.

Here's why. If a person wants to see their grandkids great. We'll use my grandmother (87) as that person. She isn't in a nursing home or any sort of home, but let's say she is for this argument. She wants to see me and her great-grandkids and my parents want to see their kid and grandkids. Well, my parents are in the age range where if they get it, they might be toast. My mom has an auto-immune disorder so no vaccine for her.

We all wear masks when out around non-family. For the folks in my house, that's almost never. Kids aren't in school learning so that is a big layer of protection as they are tiny disease spreaders even without COVID. So, if great-grandma comes over wearing proposed valve mask and everyone else is safe and wears their masks there is still a risk of infection. Not that great-grandmother will get it, but spread it to everyone else. Her kids, her grandkids, her great-grandkids. Great grandma could be asymptomatic and have no idea.

So that ONE visit to help her mental health about being lonely during this time could potentially infect me, my kids, and my parents. Who could then spread to to all sorts of people (maybe less so since they wear masks, but still). This could potentially kill both my parents and leave me and my wife with life long issues and maybe my kids too.

If we think of this whole issue like that, then that risk isn't' worth it one bit. Not even close. HOWEVER, if we can get great grandma a mask that protects her AND everyone around her, that risk is very minimal. That's how we need to look at things.

So when people seem to go off the rails saying people with your logic (again, compassionate, heart in the right place) saying you're anti science and you are thinking "how the hell could they think that?" Now you know why. I know (especially from your responses after) that you aren't anti science and are just trying to think of ways to keep certain folks safe, but also try to help their happiness, but there are things you may not have thought of. Nothing wrong with that, but that's why we need to listen to folks that know more about this stuff than us (the CDC, and numerous other organizations). They say a certain type of mask is bad, OK, let's find one that isn't.

We have to think critically and remove emotion from this (this is for people in general) and rely on experts to tell us the best path forward. Don't let the fact that information may change sway you toward thinking the experts don't know what they're doing, that may just mean the experts learned something that mad them change their thinking.

Too many things in this country are centered on how it affects "ME" instead of how it affects "US". We don't think enough about each other, but instead focus on what we want and how it affects us if we don't get it. We've got to start thinking like a nation as a whole and not let this "personal freedom" nonsense get in the way of us coming out of this on the other side. Again, this is directed to nobody in particular, just venting.
Thanks for that post, I take back and change my opinion on valved masks.

I do want everyone to have an honest conversation on the costs to the survivors of this pandemic. When this is over we will have global mental health pandemic in its wake, perhaps that will draw the attention needed to address mental health more as a holistic approach to healthcare.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks for that post, I take back and change my opinion on valved masks.

I do want everyone to have an honest conversation on the costs to the survivors of this pandemic. When this is over we will have global mental health pandemic in its wake, perhaps that will draw the attention needed to address mental health more as a holistic approach to healthcare.
I think we're already in the mental health part of it and have been.

Totally agree with the more holistic approach to healthcare.

My doctor looked at me like I was crazy when I went in for a check up for the first time in 15 years or so. I'm 36, but haven't been to a doctor in a very, very long time. I don't get sick. Pretty much ever. I get the flu, it's a mild sneeze and a slight headache, everyone else around me feels like death.

I went to get labs just because I had no clue what my levels for anything were outside of blood pressure.

Get my results, nothing wrong with me. Everything in perfect order. Doctor still looks at me funny. Guess he's not used to people trying to be pro-active instead of reactive.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
I couldn't agree more. The fitness center I used to go to recently posted a video on Facebook of some members talking about important workouts are to their well-being. In the video, one member was not wearing a mask at all, and one young man had his nose sticking out of his mask, covering only his mouth. I get pretty annoyed about the lax enforcement of mask wearing at that location, so I posted a comment calling them out about their ineffective policies. They had the nerve to respond that they allowed members to adjust their masks to make it easier to speak. Such baloney. I've seen the young jerk with his nose sticking out working out quite a bit, and he almost never has his mask adjusted properly. When I worked out there (I recently switched locations) I consistently found 25-50% of all males working out there were not wearing masks properly. Most of the transgressors were old men (65+), who you would think would be more cautious, but they're apparently too stupid to be cautious. So dumb.
After seeing so many wearing no mask, a mask under their nose or chin or constantly f*cking with it the way Pelosi does, I called the local health department (not Milwaukee) to ask about enforcement. I was told that their city attorney had decided the state's mask requirement isn't Constitutional and that enforcement is up to the place where it's not being heeded.

Maybe those 65+ year olds have stopped caring.
 

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