Trell

Trell

Audioholic General
This pretty shows that even with a 'Lockdown' unless followed by common sense it's all for naught .......

In another post you proposed a Libertarian as a third-party candidate Presidential candidate in a good-faith attempt (yup, I give you that) as an alternative. So, how would your candidate handle this, as the GOP Liberaterians are all-in-Trumps-ass-and-then-some?

Edit: My bad, it was @chris357 that proposed this candidate. Yet, again, my apologies.
 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Field Marshall
In another post you proposed a Libertarian as a third-party candidate Presidential candidate in a good-faith attempt (yup, I give you that) as an alternative. So, how would your candidate handle this, as the GOP Liberaterians are all-in-Trumps-ass-and-then-some?
what other post ? What candidate are you talking about ? What / how does that pertain to the post of mine that you quoted ?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Did she go into that store without a mask? Maybe she parked right outside and no one around to need a mask?
This is inside the store getting hair washed and dried.
And, buy the way, why was the hair salon open in the first place? Owner broke the law and apparently more than once.
Did the owner or hair dresser have a mask on?
In reality the store should have been closed, period. And, of course the video had to be handed over to Carl Tucker. :eek:
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Field Marshall
So maybe 3000 US deaths a day in flu season? Thank god this is only a projection.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
A couple of interesting (somewhat redundant) articles on using the Oak Ridge "Summit" supercomputer to analyze Covid-19, and resulting theories:


 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
A couple of interesting (somewhat redundant) articles on using the Oak Ridge "Summit" supercomputer to analyze Covid-19, and resulting theories:


Very interesting. But I'm a cancer guy, and know almost nothing about bradykinin and what regulates the renin-angiotensin system (RAS) pathway. So, I'll wait to hear from TLS Guy. As an ICU guy, he'll have plenty to say about blood pressure regulation systems and SARS-CoV-2.

It certainly suggests a new set of drug targets to look into. Look for treatments that increase the turnover of bradykinin, or decrease it's signalling level.

Vitamin D takes days or weeks to act. I doubt if it can do anything fast enough to matter for a patient in acute respiratory or vascular distress.

I do wonder about the comment that dismisses the cytokine storm hypothesis. Treatments that cool down the cytokine storm, cortico-steroids (dexamethasone), and antibodies against IL-6 were reported to be clinically effective. It may very well be that both storms are going on at the same time.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Very interesting. But I'm a cancer guy, and know almost nothing about bradykinin and what regulates the renin-angiotensin system (RAS) pathway. So, I'll wait to hear from TLS Guy. As an ICU guy, he'll have plenty to say about blood pressure regulation systems and SARS-CoV-2.

It certainly suggests a new set of drug targets to look into. Look for treatments that increase the turnover of bradykinin, or decrease it's signalling level.

Vitamin D takes days or weeks to act. I doubt if it can do anything fast enough to matter for a patient in acute respiratory or vascular distress.

I do wonder about the comment that dismisses the cytokine storm hypothesis. Treatments that cool down the cytokine storm, cortico-steroids (dexamethasone), and antibodies against IL-6 were reported to be clinically effective. It may very well be that both storms are going on at the same time.
I think that issue was more eye catching than anything new. In the inflammatory cascade it is bradykinin that triggers the cytokine storm, so I don't think this is news.

However Coavid-19 is primarily a vascular infection. It damages the blood vessels, not only causing blood clotting, but also rupture of blood vessels and bleeding. It enters the body though angiotensin II receptors and damages them. This is what makes Covid-19 such a dangerous infection and nothing like flu. We have never encountered anything like this before. Now once the bradykinin/angiotensin cascade is activated, blood pressure drops and has to be supported with infusion of nor-epinephrine or vasopressin. The damage done to the angiotensin receptors, makes blood pressure control a hugely difficult task in these patients.

Blood pressure control is very complex with hormonal, and neurological feedback loops that are interrelated. The involves baroreceptors in blood vessels, heart and kidney. The hormonal organs are principally the kidneys and pituitary. The autonomic nervous system is also involved including both sympathetic and parasympathetic systems.

Here is a simplified diagram of it all, but it actually much more complicated than this diagram indicates.



The real take home is that everyone will remain at risk from a potentially devastating illness until it is brought under control by vaccination.

So I think a reasonable time line is starting to develop. There is a remote possibility of having a small supply of vaccine available at the end of next month. There is a reasonable chance of having enough vaccine for front line personnel by years end, may be 20 million doses. I think we are nine months away from having enough vaccine to get herd immunity up to where life can return to some sort of reasonable normality. I expect the next four months in particular to be very difficult and tragic.

We are seeing what I feared as universities in particular, and schools open. The UK is seeing the same issues we are with the return of university students, and the universities are not due to open in the UK for another two weeks. Personally I think universities should only be open for distance learning for this academic year.

So my sense that we are now about at the half way point of this crisis. I'm timing it from January when there was evidence that the world was about to face a really serious crisis. It has turned out that way. It will end, and my advice is to lay low and do everything possible to avoid getting and spreading this very dangerous infection.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Another update on the thermo-stability of vaccines. As is now widely known that the mRNA vaccines (Moderna and Pfizer) require storage at - 70 to 80 degrees C. Many consider this impractical. There is far too much chance that vaccines will be inactivated before administration and lead to excess vaccine failures. This is now widely recognized as a major draw back.

The Jenner institute has been thinking about this for a long time. I have found papers from them going back at least four years on this issue. They found that by using the monkey adenovirus as vector you can make thermo-stable vaccines. It has been stated in the UK that the Oxford vaccine can be distributed and stored at -2 to -8 C. That is the same as current practice.

This makes it a practical proposition. I think the UK authorities are getting good signals that this vaccine is safe and effective. The UK unfortunately seem to be starting their second surge. It is starting to look grim with the return of universities and schools. So it looks as if they are going to manufacture enough vaccine to start distribution late December or early January. Large scale production has already started.

If it does prove to be safe, effective and practical, this will be a huge advance. If that occurs, then countries should use their war powers act to have all manufacturers produce that vaccine.

Absent a vaccine that meets those criteria the outlook for the world is grim. Today the health minister of the UK, Matt Hancock, spoke well in the Hose of Commons, and was at pains to point out the long term effects of this infection, and that many are likely still unknown.

Since this virus is at is core a unique vascular infection, a legacy of long term vascular disease from this pandemic seems to me more likely than not, and gives added urgency to bringing it under control sooner rather than later.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
We are seeing what I feared as universities in particular, and schools open. The UK is seeing the same issues we are with the return of university students, and the universities are not due to open in the UK for another two weeks. Personally I think universities should only be open for distance learning for this academic year.
Within one week of school re-opening, my niece got a fever and then tested positive for COVID-19. That was Friday. Now my brother and sister-in-law are exhibiting symptoms of having caught it too. It was clear that it came from my niece's school. Just a horrific failure on all levels of government, especially since this was all so predictable. I want to immolate every single administrator who thought it was a good idea to open schools up in the midst of such an infectious disease.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Full Audioholic
Within one week of school re-opening, my niece got a fever and then tested positive for COVID-19. That was Friday. Now my brother and sister-in-law are exhibiting symptoms of having caught it too. It was clear that it came from my niece's school. Just a horrific failure on all levels of government, especially since this was all so predictable. I want to immolate every single administrator who thought it was a good idea to open schools up in the midst of such an infectious disease.
Mind if I ask what state your niece's school is in?

My son is doing everything on-line, but many of the local school districts have in-person classes. I'm concerned that it will spread through the school to my coworkers, and I'm not sure what would happen then.

It annoys me how many people are anxious to avoid all precautions except those mandated by the government (apparently on the theory that COVID-19 is basically just the flu and all restrictions are therefore ridiculous). I suspect that those who are most opposed to restrictions will prove that restrictions are necessary.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Mind if I ask what state your niece's school is in?

My son is doing everything on-line, but many of the local school districts have in-person classes. I'm concerned that it will spread through the school to my coworkers, and I'm not sure what would happen then.

It annoys me how many people are anxious to avoid all precautions except those mandated by the government (apparently on the theory that COVID-19 is basically just the flu and all restrictions are therefore ridiculous). I suspect that those who are most opposed to restrictions will prove that restrictions are necessary.
Illinois, which is supposedly one of the states which are handling the pandemic more sensibly, but I guess each school district is allowed to make their own policies.
 

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