M

Mr._Clark

Full Audioholic
I find myself wondering how much impact all this disinformation is having on our country. I run across people on Facebook who firmly believe that COVID-19 is a hoax, that all of the deaths being reported are fake, etc. I guy yesterday told me that the the death numbers in New York City were because people there are killing babies and the death certificates are being falsified to list COVID-19 as the cause of death.

This kind of stuff so absurd it is almost beyond comprehension, yet these people firmly believe they know the "truth" and anyone who thinks differently is a naive sucker of sorts.

I F'n hate Putin.

>>>Nearly half of the Twitter accounts spreading messages on the social media platform about the coronavirus pandemic are likely bots, researchers at Carnegie Mellon University said on Wednesday. . . .

Among the misinformation disseminated by bot accounts were tweets that conspiracy theories about hospitals being filled with mannequins, or tweets connected the spread of the coronavirus to 5G wireless towers, a notion that is patently untrue.<<<

 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
It [taking hydroxychloroquine] is a distraction. He's playing the buffoon (a natural talent) because we don't then look at the important stuff.
He's playing a particular type of buffoon, a hydroxychloroquine-taking buffoon… a hydroxymoron :rolleyes:.

(I can't take credit for that play on 'oxymoron'. Jimmy Kimmel said it the other night, and I can't stop laughing about it.)
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
I find myself wondering how much impact all this disinformation is having on our country. I run across people on Facebook who firmly believe that COVID-19 is a hoax, that all of the deaths being reported are fake, etc. I guy yesterday told me that the the death numbers in New York City were because people there are killing babies and the death certificates are being falsified to list COVID-19 as the cause of death.

This kind of stuff so absurd it is almost beyond comprehension, yet these people firmly believe they know the "truth" and anyone who thinks differently is a naive sucker of sorts.

I F'n hate Putin.

>>>Nearly half of the Twitter accounts spreading messages on the social media platform about the coronavirus pandemic are likely bots, researchers at Carnegie Mellon University said on Wednesday. . . .

Among the misinformation disseminated by bot accounts were tweets that conspiracy theories about hospitals being filled with mannequins, or tweets connected the spread of the coronavirus to 5G wireless towers, a notion that is patently untrue.<<<

There's positives as well as negatives to this.

If so many of those accounts are bots theres far less of that level of idiocy going around as people think

For what it's worth I see a lot of people everywhere I go doing social distancing wearing masks people are starting to get out more but a LOT of people are trying to go about it the right way

For every party in Florida theres so many that see that and choose to stay away.

I'm hoping that even with the foolishness of some that the responsible actions of others while mitigate some of the damage they will cause with spreading the virus

We will still be impacted but hopefully not as bad as it could be it's frustrating when selfish actions of a few impact us in ways we can't control

You fellas know I'm concerned about the economy no secret right? And I was excited for the oppurtunity to see some things being lifted to help. But I was excited in a responsible manner I work with high risk so I asked my parents to stay in Red River for the summer, I always wear masks hand sanitize and keep my distance everywhere I go, I try to stay ought of risky places where the virus seems to have a high risk of spreading

I wanted the economy to open back up so people wouldn't suffer I will admit myself included I'm not a saint and I shake my head when I see the behavior of some because if we end up with another New York somewhere well we are going to clamp back down because people will get scared and everything I fear will come to pass anyway

But I have to just accept that some of this is out of our hands you can't make others see the long game with this virus

I think part of the problem is this virus is quiet ingenious in some ways as much as I hate the little booger I have to respect it's strengths

The biggest one is that for a lot of people it doesn't come off as scary. With so many asymptomatic or that have mild symptoms running around or because it still has a long way to go to spread through the population people see a picture of it that just doesn't intimidate them like it's not going to impact them

Its not like Ebola where you pretty much had blood running out of all your orifices something brutal that will get people's attention

So it spreads for awhile silently like a venus fly trap and by the time because it is a really fast spreader the numbers increase where enough that are vulnerable are impacted for others to get it well it's like that fly in the trap it's almost too late to react at that point

Combine that with the fact that they are getting restless with the restrictions some people really being at risk with unemployment the anger that comes from that over something that they were asked to do a sacrifice there asked to make over something they don't see as scary add in fear of survival family making a live and you have a boiling pot which brings out stupid for some people

Doesn't make it right but I understand it

But we have some control and there's so many that are trying to do the right thing we can build on the hope that some of that good can outweigh the bad

Man every day with our military on the units we've gotta tell them put on your mask put on your mask remember to distance these guys are so sic of staff having to say it I'll bet you

But they are so bad about complying they're tough I mean there our military in shape trained they just don't see it as a threat to them so they just don't think to make these behaviours a habit

But there's always hope man for all of the ones that can't see there are those that do.

For a government that doesn't help it's people hopefully the people take that power back to help themselves

We've all been saying for years things need to change may be this situation can be a step towards that change

If as many of the people are up to it are willing to rise to that change then what's happened and the people we've lost well they won't have been lost for no reason

There's always hope man always we can't let Putin and his Damn bots get us down
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
OK. I'll change the punctuation then.

You mean the power to pass and enforce laws.
No- he commented on cartels enforcing rules and that we could try that- once a government reaches that point, it's time to make changes. I have no problem with passing and enforcing laws as long as they're sensible, not over-reaching, and not oppressive. With the large number of people being the stupid creatures they are, laws are needed in order to have a peaceful society. The problem- many don't care if something is illegal, so they do what they want. Penalizing all because of the unlawful activities of a small number isn't going to make the majority happy and enforcing with an iron fist is a good way to piss off a country.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
He's playing a particular type of buffoon, a hydroxychloroquine-taking buffoon… a hydroxymoron :rolleyes:.

(I can't take credit for that play on 'oxymoron'. Jimmy Kimmel said it the other night, and I can't stop laughing about it.)
Somewhere, someone is eating these as a way to combat COVID.
 

Attachments

panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Ninja
There's positives as well as negatives to this.

If so many of those accounts are bots theres far less of that level of idiocy going around as people think

For what it's worth I see a lot of people everywhere I go doing social distancing wearing masks people are starting to get out more but a LOT of people are trying to go about it the right way

For every party in Florida theres so many that see that and choose to stay away.

I'm hoping that even with the foolishness of some that the responsible actions of others while mitigate some of the damage they will cause with spreading the virus

We will still be impacted but hopefully not as bad as it could be it's frustrating when selfish actions of a few impact us in ways we can't control

You fellas know I'm concerned about the economy no secret right? And I was excited for the oppurtunity to see some things being lifted to help. But I was excited in a responsible manner I work with high risk so I asked my parents to stay in Red River for the summer, I always wear masks hand sanitize and keep my distance everywhere I go, I try to stay ought of risky places where the virus seems to have a high risk of spreading

I wanted the economy to open back up so people wouldn't suffer I will admit myself included I'm not a saint and I shake my head when I see the behavior of some because if we end up with another New York somewhere well we are going to clamp back down because people will get scared and everything I fear will come to pass anyway

But I have to just accept that some of this is out of our hands you can't make others see the long game with this virus

I think part of the problem is this virus is quiet ingenious in some ways as much as I hate the little booger I have to respect it's strengths

The biggest one is that for a lot of people it doesn't come off as scary. With so many asymptomatic or that have mild symptoms running around or because it still has a long way to go to spread through the population people see a picture of it that just doesn't intimidate them like it's not going to impact them

Its not like Ebola where you pretty much had blood running out of all your orifices something brutal that will get people's attention

So it spreads for awhile silently like a venus fly trap and by the time because it is a really fast spreader the numbers increase where enough that are vulnerable are impacted for others to get it well it's like that fly in the trap it's almost too late to react at that point

Combine that with the fact that they are getting restless with the restrictions some people really being at risk with unemployment the anger that comes from that over something that they were asked to do a sacrifice there asked to make over something they don't see as scary add in fear of survival family making a live and you have a boiling pot which brings out stupid for some people

Doesn't make it right but I understand it

But we have some control and there's so many that are trying to do the right thing we can build on the hope that some of that good can outweigh the bad

Man every day with our military on the units we've gotta tell them put on your mask put on your mask remember to distance these guys are so sic of staff having to say it I'll bet you

But they are so bad about complying they're tough I mean there our military in shape trained they just don't see it as a threat to them so they just don't think to make these behaviours a habit

But there's always hope man for all of the ones that can't see there are those that do.

For a government that doesn't help it's people hopefully the people take that power back to help themselves

We've all been saying for years things need to change may be this situation can be a step towards that change

If as many of the people are up to it are willing to rise to that change then what's happened and the people we've lost well they won't have been lost for no reason

There's always hope man always we can't let Putin and his Damn bots get us down
When the military types say that they're tough and don't need masks. Show them this picture of WWI soldiers wearing masks to help prevent the spread of Spanish flu before they depart for France. At least, that's what the internet said it was...

 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
No- he commented on cartels enforcing rules
Exactly.

So the cartels made rules (laws) and enforced them. You said "You really want to give the gubmint that much power over us?"

The power involved is passing and enforcing rules.

have no problem with passing and enforcing laws as long as they're sensible, not over-reaching, and not oppressive. With the large number of people being the stupid creatures they are, laws are needed in order to have a peaceful society. The problem- many don't care if something is illegal, so they do what they want. Penalizing all because of the unlawful activities of a small number isn't going to make the majority happy and enforcing with an iron fist is a good way to piss off a country.
That's all non-sequiter.

Everyone opposes over-reach.
Everyone opposes being oppressed.

I assume you are attempting to say some rule *is* overreach, but that's not a presence or lack of "power over us". At best, that's how said power is exercised.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
I find myself wondering how much impact all this disinformation is having on our country...
It's always been bad on the front lines, trying to redirect patients away from dangerous nonsense such as anti-vaccine conspiracy theories, alt med charlantry, etc. (I suppose this is why I detest snake oil audio too, the same grifter game in a different milieu). COVID-19 has cranked the BS up to eleven. In the deluge I even find myself being susceptible to some of it, calling into doubt my own internal BS meter. It's been pegged for so long now I think it's broken. o_O

I suppose we'll find out soon enough how this will go. Opening back up, nonchalant attitudes, and the inevitable Memorial Day gatherings sounds like an epidemiological bomb set to explode in our faces.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
The US is now backing the Oxford vaccine to the tune of a billion dollars. This is very good news. Honestly they are the only team who stand a chance of bailing us out form this disaster before an almost certain second wave in the fall wrecks absolute havoc.

This business about the virus persisting in the nose of monkeys is still not put in perspective. None of the monkeys got pneumonia or seriously ill who had the vaccine. They were challenged with large doses of virus.

Now humans can have positive viral tests up to 80 days after recovery. However after 10 days the virus recovered will not grow in culture. So somehow the virus is inactivated.

I attended the webinar of the NDMA again last night and the data is now clear. After 10 days of recovery a person is not an infectious risk. Yes, the tests often remain positive but the patients are not infectious. That data is now clear.

This is so complicated more physician journalists need to be recruited. This is a far to complicated a subject to be reported on by people without the correct training.

The vaccine can not come soon enough. The case fatality is 10 times worse than seasonal flu. It is also producing a burden of long term care. It is now becoming apparent there will be the burden of chronic care form this. The list includes pulmonary fibrosis, heart damage and stroke.

Being outside is much safer than being inside. The longer the exposure to the virus the higher the transmission rate. Singing is a super spreading activity. Churches should take note. Transmission from surfaces is low. The vast bulk of the transmission is airborne. The 6' social distancing inside is of little use. The take home message, don't spend any significant time inside with other people.

When seeing how we are doing there are really only three indices. One is case count. That is the number of cases having to go to hospital. The next is deaths. Since these are way UNDER reported, we need to look closely at the excess death numbers. Those are the numbers of importance following this pandemic, the rest is noise.

The presentation by Dr Paul Carson infectious disease specialist from Fargo Sanford Health and professor of medicine UND, were I was an associate professor was excellent. He talked at some length about the Oxford vaccine. He was very optimistic about the success of this vaccine. He urges patience and not risking unnecessary death and disability when an effective vaccine is more likely than not close at hand. If not he fears a terrible fall and winter season.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
The US is now backing the Oxford vaccine to the tune of a billion dollars. This is very good news. Honestly they are the only team who stand a chance of bailing us out form this disaster before an almost certain second wave in the fall wrecks absolute havoc.

This business about the virus persisting in the nose of monkeys is still not put in perspective. None of the monkeys got pneumonia or seriously ill who had the vaccine. They were challenged with large doses of virus.

Now humans can have positive viral tests up to 80 days after recovery. However after 10 days the virus recovered will not grow in culture. So somehow the virus is inactivated.

I attended the webinar of the NDMA again last night and the data is now clear. After 10 days of recovery a person is not an infectious risk. Yes, the tests often remain positive but the patients are not infectious. That data is now clear.

This is so complicated more physician journalists need to be recruited. This is a far to complicated a subject to be reported on by people without the correct training.

The vaccine can not come soon enough. The case fatality is 10 times worse than seasonal flu. It is also producing a burden of long term care. It is now becoming apparent there will be the burden of chronic care form this. The list includes pulmonary fibrosis, heart damage and stroke.

Being outside is much safer than being inside. The longer the exposure to the virus the higher the transmission rate. Singing is a super spreading activity. Churches should take note. Transmission from surfaces is low. The vast bulk of the transmission is airborne. The 6' social distancing inside is of little use. The take home message, don't spend any significant time inside with other people.

When seeing how we are doing there are really only three indices. One is case count. That is the number of cases having to go to hospital. The next is deaths. Since these are way UNDER reported, we need to look closely at the excess death numbers. Those are the numbers of importance following this pandemic, the rest is noise.

The presentation by Dr Paul Carson infectious disease specialist from Fargo Sanford Health and professor of medicine UND, were I was an associate professor was excellent. He talked at some length about the Oxford vaccine. He was very optimistic about the success of this vaccine. He urges patience and not risking unnecessary death and disability when an effective vaccine is more likely than not close at hand. If not he fears a terrible fall and winter season.
Thanks for the info I'm really glad to hear the US is finally now pitching in I hope it helps and I hope Oxford gets it working

Heck even if the vaccine can just reduce or eliminate pneumonia and the more serious complications I'd take that as a win

Its not like they couldn't continue to improve vaccines down the road anything that helps is hopefully a step in the right direction
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
The US is now backing the Oxford vaccine to the tune of a billion dollars. This is very good news. Honestly they are the only team who stand a chance of bailing us out form this disaster before an almost certain second wave in the fall wrecks absolute havoc.

This business about the virus persisting in the nose of monkeys is still not put in perspective. None of the monkeys got pneumonia or seriously ill who had the vaccine. They were challenged with large doses of virus.

Now humans can have positive viral tests up to 80 days after recovery. However after 10 days the virus recovered will not grow in culture. So somehow the virus is inactivated.

I attended the webinar of the NDMA again last night and the data is now clear. After 10 days of recovery a person is not an infectious risk. Yes, the tests often remain positive but the patients are not infectious. That data is now clear.

This is so complicated more physician journalists need to be recruited. This is a far to complicated a subject to be reported on by people without the correct training.

The vaccine can not come soon enough. The case fatality is 10 times worse than seasonal flu. It is also producing a burden of long term care. It is now becoming apparent there will be the burden of chronic care form this. The list includes pulmonary fibrosis, heart damage and stroke.

Being outside is much safer than being inside. The longer the exposure to the virus the higher the transmission rate. Singing is a super spreading activity. Churches should take note. Transmission from surfaces is low. The vast bulk of the transmission is airborne. The 6' social distancing inside is of little use. The take home message, don't spend any significant time inside with other people.

When seeing how we are doing there are really only three indices. One is case count. That is the number of cases having to go to hospital. The next is deaths. Since these are way UNDER reported, we need to look closely at the excess death numbers. Those are the numbers of importance following this pandemic, the rest is noise.

The presentation by Dr Paul Carson infectious disease specialist from Fargo Sanford Health and professor of medicine UND, were I was an associate professor was excellent. He talked at some length about the Oxford vaccine. He was very optimistic about the success of this vaccine. He urges patience and not risking unnecessary death and disability when an effective vaccine is more likely than not close at hand. If not he fears a terrible fall and winter season.
Hey one question I know indoors 6ft distance isn't effective but is wearing masks and maintaining 6ft effective? How much do masks help with keeping say if I caught it from infecting others?

Just wanting some help here on what's helpful
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Hey one question I know indoors 6ft distance isn't effective but is wearing masks and maintaining 6ft effective? How much do masks help with keeping say if I caught it from infecting others?

Just wanting some help here on what's helpful
According to the experts, when the 6 foot distancing is impossible, if everyone wears a mask, they all are protected to a great extent and more so if nobody coughs or sneezes at someone's face.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Ninja
According to the experts, when the 6 foot distancing is impossible, if everyone wears a mask, they all are protected to a great extent and more so if nobody coughs or sneezes at someone's face.
Ok thanks
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
The US is now backing the Oxford vaccine to the tune of a billion dollars. This is very good news. Honestly they are the only team who stand a chance of bailing us out form this disaster before an almost certain second wave in the fall wrecks absolute havoc.
$1.2 billion is indeed good news. To assure that an effective vaccine becomes available as soon as possible, large amounts of money should go to more than one vaccine effort.
This business about the virus persisting in the nose of monkeys is still not put in perspective. None of the monkeys got pneumonia or seriously ill who had the vaccine. They were challenged with large doses of virus.
True, none of the 6 vaccinated and virus-challenged monkeys got pneumonia. But how many non-vaccinated monkeys would get pneumonia with the same virus challenge? Was that test done during those experiments? We don't know because we lack complete data and only have a press release.
Now humans can have positive viral tests up to 80 days after recovery. However after 10 days the virus recovered will not grow in culture. So somehow the virus is inactivated.
Interesting. Do you have a publication link(s) for this info?

I searched Google Scholar with this phrase "how long after recovery are SARS-CoV-2 patients infectious", but found way too many hits to read just the abstracts.

This one paper came close:

It looked at 23 patients, collecting samples for up to 25 days after symptom onset. Samples were assayed for viral RNA load (RT-PCR) and antibody levels against SARS-CoV-2 (ELISA assays). Although the RT-PCR method is very sensitive for viral RNA, it does not address the question of how infectious the viral particles are. Apparently, they did not perform any of the more time consuming measures of virus infectivity, such as a plaque formation assay.

There could be several reasons why viral RNA was detectable, but little or no infectious virus was found. One reason would be the virus particles – bound by antibodies – could not spread and infect in the usual way. But the Lancet paper I linked didn't speak about that.
I attended the webinar of the NDMA again last night and the data is now clear. After 10 days of recovery a person is not an infectious risk. Yes, the tests often remain positive but the patients are not infectious. That data is now clear.
A link or links?
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Ok thanks
You're quite welcome.
Also, I think it's a good procedure to ask anyone visiting to also use a hand sanitizer gel when they access the house entrance.
If they don't have a mask, you sell them one. :D
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
$1.2 billion is indeed good news. To assure that an effective vaccine becomes available as soon as possible, large amounts of money should go to more than one vaccine effort.
True, none of the 6 vaccinated and virus-challenged monkeys got pneumonia. But how many non-vaccinated monkeys would get pneumonia with the same virus challenge? Was that test done during those experiments? We don't know because we lack complete data and only have a press release.
Interesting. Do you have a publication link(s) for this info?

I searched Google Scholar with this phrase "how long after recovery are SARS-CoV-2 patients infectious", but found way too many hits to read just the abstracts.

This one paper came close:

It looked at 23 patients, collecting samples for up to 25 days after symptom onset. Samples were assayed for viral RNA load (RT-PCR) and antibody levels against SARS-CoV-2 (ELISA assays). Although the RT-PCR method is very sensitive for viral RNA, it does not address the question of how infectious the viral particles are. Apparently, they did not perform any of the more time consuming measures of virus infectivity, such as a plaque formation assay.

There could be several reasons why viral RNA was detectable, but little or no infectious virus was found. One reason would be the virus particles – bound by antibodies – could not spread and infect in the usual way. But the Lancet paper I linked didn't speak about that.
A link or links?
The NDMA webinar is available to NDMA members only. I have a secure access code, but I'm not allowed to share it.

I did log on and find the key slide, from Wolfel, R. I understand he is a virologist at John Hopkins. I tired to look up his paper which I think is on the John Hopkins ABX site, but I don't have access. Dr Carson gave an excellent presentation last night that was very well received.

One point, last night a paper came through the AMA Wire that helps explain why children get no or mild primary disease. They are spreaders though. The reason is that their angiotensin IIe receptors are not fully expressed and functional. That is the thought now anyway.

Today on the BBC news there is increasing concern about the mortality of the BAME group in the NHS workers, especially those from the Indian subcontinent and Black populations. So much so that they are thinking of taking them off the front lines. This is highly problematic as the have so many including key senior staff. It seems this can not be explained by social status and co-morbidity alone.

It occurs to me after reading last night paper that there may be differences in the angiotensin IIe receptors in different races. This could well be so as African Americans get a different variety of hypertension as a rule to Caucasians, who generally have high renin hypertension, whereas African Americans usually have a harder to treat low renin hypertension.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
I did log on and find the key slide, from Wolfel, R. I understand he is a virologist at John Hopkins. I tired to look up his paper which I think is on the John Hopkins ABX site, but I don't have access.
Thanks for the first author name. Searching on Google Scholar for R Wolfel and SARS-Cov-2 was enough to find a recent (April 1st) paper in Nature:


A quick read makes me think it might be what I'm looking for. See Figure 1 panel F, it shows a graph of days after onset of symptoms vs. positive cultures. I'll read it tonight or tomorrow morning.

When I have more time, I'll write, as briefly as I can, on what the differences are with RNA assays, vs. ELISA antibody assays, and plaque forming assays. They all answer different questions. Basically, you can't talk about viral RNA loads to say anything useful about viral infectiousness. For that, you must have the results of a virus plaque forming assay. Viral RNA assays are easy once you have the RT-PCR kit and the right lab machinery. Virus plaque forming assays are time consuming and labor intensive.
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
When the military types say that they're tough and don't need masks. Show them this picture of WWI soldiers wearing masks to help prevent the spread of Spanish flu before they depart for France. At least, that's what the internet said it was...

The uniform would fit. Spanish American War didn't require masks. So, it is highly likely. :D

We need to rewrite the name to American Flue.
 

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