"considering first diy" -or- "subs in the oven"

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Baltic birch plywood (the real stuff is hard to find, tho) is good, or good multiple layer void free (like 9 or better) 3/4" plywood is my choice. Sawdust not as nasty as mdf and makes for a lighter box and staining such makes for a reasonably good looking box (I've also used duratex). The one time I had the home improvement store cut some ply for me they didn't do a very good job with the details (and it was just quartering the panel),now I found a specialty lumber store with all kinds of wood and plywood and they have a really good saw and the guys can measure and cut straight. I'd cut my own but handling a 4x8 sheet just isn't all that fun.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Since @Matthew J Poes brought it up, and this is very early in the conversation... materials:
MDF, i've seen some reference to avoiding what they sell at Lowes and Home Depot. What should I be looking for if I go that route?
Plywood... void free. I've seen some people mention using Birch...
What are the overall best options, please, and what are their drawbacks?
MDF is denser than plywood and costs a bit less. When you cut MDF, especially with a router, it makes lots of fine dust. Some people, especially if they work indoors, object to that dust. Others don't. MDF has a smooth & flat surface – easier to finish.

I personally don't worry about the more expensive heavier grades of MDF. Strong cross bracing is more important for speaker cabinets than heavy panels.

Plywood is somewhat lighter. When you cut, it makes chips & shavings, with much less dust. Plywood, in my opinion, is harder to finish. Do you have any finish plans? Veneer or paint? For a higher price, you can buy plywood that comes with hardwood veneer on one side.

Baltic Birch, a type of plywood, is more expensive and looks better. Woodworking magazines love to show projects made with Baltic Birch because the photos look cool.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
It was so heavy I couldn't move it by myself and never bothered to paint it because I couldn't get it outside once it was assembled.
Ha! Nothing affects the sound quality of a speaker worse than a cabinet too heavy to move out of the basement :D.

I have similar stories :rolleyes:, but if I told them, no one would ever listen to any of my advice.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Do you have any finish plans? Veneer or paint? For a higher price, you can buy plywood with hardwood veneer on one side.
More likely than not, I am interested in dying veneer. Painting might be the way to go, all things considered. I have seen some of those Hardwood Veneer Plywood cut, but not in large panels.

I'm going to futz around with some MDF panels that I'm going to use as shelf toppers on thin metal shelving, so I'll get to see how that goes. Plywood always makes me mad. Granted, I'm more used to sheathing, than anything finer. But my experience there is that it has a tendancy to warp so easily.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
More likely than not, I am interested in dying veneer. Painting might be the way to go, all things considered. I have seen some of those Hardwood Veneer Plywood cut, but not in large panels.
Everything I know about finishing wood came from this book: Understanding Wood Finishing by Bob Flexner.

If I remember, he says seal veneer with at least two clear coats before applying dye. Then follow with many more clear coats.

I once tried painting a speaker cabinet. I'll never do that again. It requires much more careful sanding or every tiny flaw gets telegraphed through the paint. I think veneer is actually easier.
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

Audioholic Chief
Staff member
Since @Matthew J Poes brought it up, and this is very early in the conversation... materials:
MDF, i've seen some reference to avoiding what they sell at Lowes and Home Depot. What should I be looking for if I go that route?
Plywood... void free. I've seen some people mention using Birch...
What are the overall best options, please, and what are their drawbacks?
My opinion is as follows, and as is my style, is born out of the science more than internet wisdom or even my own experiences.
1) Subwoofers should be made as light and stiff as possible. Enclosure density for a subwoofer is of little value, it doesn't contain the sound any more than a low-density enclosure. At low frequencies the enclosures operates as a pressure vessel and as such it is stiffness than dominates.
2)Plywood is a more sensible material than MDF for subwoofers (the reverse is true of main speakers) because MDF is less stiff, better damped, and denser. All things that are good for a full range speaker, but of no value to a LF only enclosure. Plywood is quite a bit stiffer and quite a bit lighter, so it's better for subs and easier to work with.
3) bracing is better than thickness. Where doubling the thickness makes a panel 8 times stiffer, it also lowers the resonant frequency (you want the opposite), and doubles the weight. Bracing only increases weight a little bit while making the panel more like 16 times (or more) stiffer.
4) Bracing should not use the windowpane method unless out of convenience as its a waste of material. Cross-bracing panels is of greatest value. Also, braces should be made out of stiff material, like hardwood dowels. Use of MDF as a brace is less than ideal.
5)Enclosures should be made to maximize the glue area and, if possible, without screws. Clamps and brads is more than sufficient. If you are a good woodworker (I am not), then locking joints with the largest possible glue surface area is best. I have had enclosures crack at the seams occasionally, especially if I have to handle them a lot.

Ok, as for materials. Void Free plywood is usually something like apple ply or birch. There are other options. I think Marine grade is also void free, but I'm not a wood expert. Baltic or russian birch ply comes in 5x5 sheets and can be a little harder to source. That is often the best quality however.

MDF at the big box stores seems to be a lower density and less smooth/flat material. It isn't as good quality as MDF can be. Better lumber stores carry the good stuff. I don't know how to describe the difference other than to say you will know it when you see it. It feels harder and denser, it heavier, and looks different. It also costs more. Around here Owl Lumber carries the good stuff, the big box stores does not carry any of it. Having said that, I'm not a fan of MDF for sub enclosures.

OSB is actually a good sub enclosure material. People rag on it for its voids, but it actually is known not to have a lot of voids. The key is good quality OSB. It's cheaper than plywood and stiffer than MDF. It's ugly and hard to finish. I had a speaker designer once tell me that OSB is one of the best subwoofer enclosure materials and that the only reason most companies don't use it is finish quality. It requires a skin or surface layer be applied in order to give it a nice finish.
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

Audioholic Chief
Staff member
Everything I know about finishing wood came from this book: Understanding Wood Finishing by Bob Flexner.

If I remember, he says seal veneer with at least two clear coats before applying dye. Then follow with many more clear coats.

I once tried painting a speaker cabinet. I'll never do that again. It requires much more careful sanding or every tiny flaw gets telegraphed through the paint. I think veneer is actually easier.
Painting is hard! The only paint finish that is easier than veneer is the super thick textured finishes, like truck bed liner. Some companies actually veneer MDF in order to provide a better surface to paint. In fact, I've been told that Wilson Audio uses a phenolic resin panel for finish quality and consistency, not sound quality. MDF and plywood couldn't provide a consistent finish, so they invested in very expensive new panels in order to improve the finish.
 
Matthew J Poes

Matthew J Poes

Audioholic Chief
Staff member
More likely than not, I am interested in dying veneer. Painting might be the way to go, all things considered. I have seen some of those Hardwood Veneer Plywood cut, but not in large panels.

I'm going to futz around with some MDF panels that I'm going to use as shelf toppers on thin metal shelving, so I'll get to see how that goes. Plywood always makes me mad. Granted, I'm more used to sheathing, than anything finer. But my experience there is that it has a tendancy to warp so easily.
Good plywood doesn't warp, and once it's braced, a complete non-issue. The layers are each oriented differently so as each layer trys to warp across the grain, it fights the next layer. Honestly, check out Baltic Birth plywood. It's gorgeous.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
All: Thank you so much! You've given me a lot of info to sink my teeth into for the day... hell, for a week! :cool:

@Swerd, I ordered that wood finishing book along with a couple others. Those and the speaker books will be arriving over the next week.

I look forward to more of this as I get a little more familiar with the technical stuff and better understand the ins and outs of picking a driver and finding the right plan for what I want to accomplish.

Cheers!
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
I have had an excellent performance with the Dayton RSS Subwoofer series of drivers.

My current HT system uses three RSS390HF-4 15 inch subs as woofers in identical front 3-way 7.8 cf enclosures, positively bi-amped through a crossover between the subs and the mid-woofers as midrange drivers. With that design, I get a response with an F3 at 20Hz without EQ..

Those subs are really musical and can also adequately perform for action movies.

I also build a pair of 3-way speakers using a 12 inch RSS sub in each cabinet with very satisfactory results. I don't hesitate to recommend those subwoofers which are solidly constructed and also carry a 5 year warranty.
 
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