Conservatives win Canada

[Buckeyefan 1]

Wow, is this the thinking of an average American? I hope not!

The USA, to my understanding was built on people helping and looking out for people. I guess the greatest empire on earth today is like that of all great empires in history falling. And Very fast, I would think with this kind of mentality and thinking.

McIntosh Man is not a religious man. When he was, he actually took money OUT of the collection basket.

 

[MacManNM]

Wow, is this the thinking of an average American? I hope not!

The USA, to my understanding was built on people helping and looking out for people. I guess the greatest empire on earth today is like that of all great empires in history falling. And Very fast, I would think with this kind of mentality and thinking.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Notice it says “the pursuit of Happiness”, not guarantee of happiness.

Heaven forbid everyone actually try to work, or perform some type of service for the collective good.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Thats funny the man hampers my pursuit of happiness everyday.....

 

[HookedOnSound]

Heaven forbid everyone actually try to work, or perform some type of service for the collective good.

I've read some of your posts, that's a pretty cynical view of the world you got there MacManNM, are you self-employed?

 

[Tomorrow]

Thanks, I will read up on the "Steam Vent" as I do confess I did not.

And no retribution for the “SheepStar(a Northern resident) starting a thread and railing against the U.S. policies.” Never even saw it. I'm not too interested in babble on forms, but I will have a look further to this post and then decide if it’s not too boring and pointless to argue cross boarders when it’s uneducated writing and opinions.

This is when the net really gets lameo. I simply do not have the time, although some of the mentality out there is simply simple and amazing on how one could think.

Sir/Ms,

If you're "bored by uneducated writing and opinions" here, I suggest you learn the English language. It may assist in your opinions as well as your expressions and spelling.

 

[furrycute]

Healthcare. We have such good healthcare in the good old U.S. that a lot of poor folks don't seek health care until the very last stages of major illnesses, when the chances of recovery are virtually nill, or the cost of the medical care needed to bring about recovery is astronomical, literally.

That's why you see the ERs of most major medical centers flooded all day long, that's the poor person's primary care clinic.

I would much rather prefer the Canadian nationalized health care system, comparable to the VA system here in the U.S., only larger and more efficient. Sure health care providers (M.D.s, nurses, etc.) will have to take cuts in the paycheck. But for the sake of the welfare of the entire nation, those cuts are necessary.

Plus, look where our health care dollars are being spent. Administration, administration, administration. With the myriad of private insurance companies, HMOs, etc., we are probably spending close to 50% of our health care dollars just on administration, yes, that's right, administration, that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual medical of patients.

By having a single payer nationalized health care system, we can trim this layer of fat right off our backs. Of course that also means cutting out a large chunk of the insurance companies' workforce.

 

[MacManNM]

I've read some of your posts, that's a pretty cynical view of the world you got there MacManNM, are you self-employed?

No, I'm not self-employed. I currently work in the scientific community. I grew up average middle class. I have been a bus boy, a cook, medical tech, a steelworker, a mechanic, an engineer in the USAF, and finally now a scientist. I have lived in so many different countries that I have lost count, and seen things no normal person would care to see in these strange places, you call it cynical, I call it realistic. That, in my opinion, is one of the problems in today’s society, everyone is afraid to call a spade a spade.

 

[prfsask]

what does call a spade a spade mean?

what does call a spade a spade mean?

thanks for the spelling checkup rjbudz's

 

[HookedOnSound]

MacManNM, to some degree I agree with you on alot of topics except for the "Let them die a miserable death" comment. That's just plain nasty.

Sometimes bad things happen to good people. Assuming that all it would take is "good ol' elbow grease" to fix all woes of the world is unrealistic.

I don't wish to start an argument, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. But you gotta lighten up or you'll end up with ulcers.

Have a great day!

 

[MacManNM]

what does call a spade a spade mean?

You don’t always have to be politically correct.

 

[Sheep]

prfsask, read up on what the Steam Vent is about! BTW, I have a feeling that this might have been a little bit of retribution for the SheepStar(a Northern resident) starting a thread and railing against the U.S. policies.

I did? Wow, I must sleep-post. I believe you are referring to Takeereasy.

How can I not "rail" US policies? If I disagree, it's taken as "railing". Sorry if I like health care.

This is why I want the members of this forum to meet in public. It will put things in perspective. People can hide behind computer screens and forum names all they want, and say what they want. It means a lot more when you say it to someones face.

SheepStar

 

[Audioholics]

This is when the net really gets lameo. I simply do not have the time, although some of the mentality out there is simply simple and amazing on how one could think.

Yeah, well, don't take it too seriously. A lot of our members like to hide behind the "this-is-the-steam-vent-we-can-do-whatever-we-want" clause (which isn't really true) and blow off some steam... It's all in fun for the most part. Except for furrycute's crack about wanting to be in a nationalized health care system. That deserves a ban.

By the way, for any American whose employer DOESN'T cover health care, you owe it to yourself to at least investigate an HSA (Health Savings Account). Best thing for a young (under 40) person in the US who has to pay their own insurance in my opinion (it's what I use). Basically a major medical coverage plan with a high deductible. Then you get to pay yourself and take a tax deduction for everything you put in (up to 100% of the yearly deductible). Anything unused gets rolled over the next year... At age 65 any unused money (and there should be a TON of it) becomes a standard IRA account.*

*Audioholics does not endorse nor specifically agree with all financial or political statements made by right wing conservative Editor-in-Chiefs
- Clint

 

[furrycute]

Yes, I have been known for my left wing views.

Who was it that said "if by the age of 20 you are still not a liberal, you are heartless; if by the age of 40 you are still not a conservative, you are clueless." Or it was something like that.


Anyways, the whole point of having an insurance system is to have as many people in it as possible, so the odds of any single person falling ill and its associated medical costs gets diluted over all the people enrolled in this insurance plan.

Just by simple logic, it makes perfect sense to include everyone in a nationalized health insurance plan, whether it be government run or privately run, doesn't really make all that much difference. The key is that this insurance plan includes everyone.

Plus like I said before, you can trim layers upon layers of administrative waste when you change to a single payer system.

 

[furrycute]

Who cares what happens to them. Let them die a miserable death. Chances are, if they don't have health insurance, they never were a productive part of society anyhow. The same thing goes for the poor unfortunate soles that can’t find a job and need welfare. To hell with them, there is no one in this country that can’t get a job if they don’t want one, so I don’t feel sorry for any of them. The people in this country are getting lazy, and I’m sick of the freeloaders. Same thing goes for all of the foreign aid we send out.

Wow.

Speechless.

I guess this is another version of our glorious compassionate conservatism.

 

[MacManNM]

Wow.

Speechless.

I guess this is another version of our glorious compassionate conservatism.

I thought you were speechless?

 

[Matt34]

Yes, I have been known for my left wing views.

Who was it that said "if by the age of 20 you are still not a liberal, you are heartless; if by the age of 40 you are still not a conservative, you are clueless." Or it was something like that.


Anyways, the whole point of having an insurance system is to have as many people in it as possible, so the odds of any single person falling ill and its associated medical costs gets diluted over all the people enrolled in this insurance plan.

Just by simple logic, it makes perfect sense to include everyone in a nationalized health insurance plan, whether it be government run or privately run, doesn't really make all that much difference. The key is that this insurance plan includes everyone.

Plus like I said before, you can trim layers upon layers of administrative waste when you change to a single payer system.

I'm really ignorant when it comes to this countries health care plan(s)(when you get it free, you don't worry about it too much) but when I was stationed in Germany they had a nationalized plan. They had good hospitals and from what I saw everyone was entitled to treatment but that is also why they pay up around 40%+ in income taxes. Imagine just under half your paycheck goes to the federal government.

That just doesn't pass the common sense test, IMNSHO.

I do agree that the current system needs reformed but I can't offer any solutions.

 

[Takeereasy]

Healthcare is sucking the life out of the Canadian economy, and it's only getting worse. Baby boomers are getting older and the care that they need is going to bankrupt us or at least push the taxes into the 50% + zone. I pay 30% income tax (I barely make this bracket, lucky me) and 15% sales tax/GST on everything I buy. That means 45% of my money is gone before I see a cent of it, or that I'm working 5 months a year at zero profit. So far I haven't eaten or put gas in my car, let alone a roof over my head, and I'm half broke. The really bad news is that 30% tax is no where near what you can be charged in Canada for your salary, believe me, I'm not raking in the big bucks by any means. Socialized healthcare is a great idea, everyone should be entitled to a shot at having a disease free life, but things are getting out of hand. We're most likely going to loose social security within 20 years, a fund I've been paying into since I was 16 but won't receive a dime from, and to be honest saving for retirement is pretty hard when close to half of what you make is gone before you see a penny.

I say we Canadians should set up our society in a new way, ala Logan's run. When the gem beeps you've had it. Into the incenerator pops or it's straight to the Soylent Green factory for you.

Again I think MacMan is taking it to the extreme, but I do tend to see his point on this one, except for the let them die thing of course .

Oh yeah, and the conservatives up here are pretty similar to republicans down there. I really don't care for our new Prime Minister, he just seems like such a tool, but it really was time for a change in our govt. Bush is going to have a new buttboy with Harper, but I bet it's good for the economy.

 

[kia303]

Sorry Sheep

I did? Wow, I must sleep-post. I believe you are referring to Takeereasy.

How can I not "rail" US policies? If I disagree, it's taken as "railing". Sorry if I like health care.

This is why I want the members of this forum to meet in public. It will put things in perspective. People can hide behind computer screens and forum names all they want, and say what they want. It means a lot more when you say it to someones face.

SheepStar

Sheep,
I got that one confused, so I apologize! Forgot that Takeereasy
started that thread. Anyway it is all good, I was not saying that it bothered me that people were complaining about US policies, or railing as I put it, I was just saying that as a conservative it was nice to see another viewpoint in this thread. The other thread seemed to be pretty slanted to the left. Sometimes it is hard for me to express my personality from behind a keyboard, I do not normally use those smilies thingies, guess I should start. Sorry if I offended you, it was not my intent, quite the contrary as I meant most of the comments as tongue in cheek, is there a smilie for that. I am new here so hopefully I will get to know you guys better as we go. Once again sorry Sheep.
BTW if we meant in person you would think I was pretty cool, I have a lot of friends that are liberal and we still are able to have a drink together.

 

[Mort Corey]

I say we Canadians should set up our society in a new way, ala Logan's run. When the gem beeps you've had it. Into the incenerator pops or it's straight to the Soylent Green factory for you.

.

We're already getting a head start on you Canucks with the "right to die" movement. Next step.....the "duty" to die

Mort

 

[furrycute]

If you have medical insurance, we all have to pay into that insurance plan. It doesn't matter if the insurance plan is government or privately run. So if you don't have a nationalized healthcare plan, it is true the government wont take that 30% out of your paycheck. But you have to pay that 30%, if not a bigger chunk of your paycheck to the private health insurance companies. The only difference is if you write the check now or later. But you have to write that check.

Having hundreds and thousands of small fragmented private health insurance plans if grossly inefficient. Running this system takes a bigger chunk out of our paychecks than a single payer system will.

Healthcare is sucking the life out of the Canadian economy, and it's only getting worse. Baby boomers are getting older and the care that they need is going to bankrupt us or at least push the taxes into the 50% + zone. I pay 30% income tax (I barely make this bracket, lucky me) and 15% sales tax/GST on everything I buy. That means 45% of my money is gone before I see a cent of it, or that I'm working 5 months a year at zero profit. So far I haven't eaten or put gas in my car, let alone a roof over my head, and I'm half broke. The really bad news is that 30% tax is no where near what you can be charged in Canada for your salary, believe me, I'm not raking in the big bucks by any means. Socialized healthcare is a great idea, everyone should be entitled to a shot at having a disease free life, but things are getting out of hand. We're most likely going to loose social security within 20 years, a fund I've been paying into since I was 16 but won't receive a dime from, and to be honest saving for retirement is pretty hard when close to half of what you make is gone before you see a penny.
QUOTE]