Conservatives Trying to Ruin More American Jobs (aka Listen to Craig234 lecture)

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Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
Craig234 said:
I'm going to reply to your post - and note that you should do less pointless sniping. Please think longer before you post.!
I thought you might enjoy a quick look at why I have chosen to respond to you as I have. Again...'tis not "pointless" sniping I'm doing with you. What follows is certainly an incomplete laundry list. Note all the references to a "you". (And we could start with your post, above.) Names of those to whom you were referring have been edited out.

Craig234 said:
It's not so simple, children.

You just want to complain and be smug.


The first thing you are missing is the global perspective of your role. You are the cash cow that feeds the pigs in charge.

No, you are the elite.

And you are an idiot, if you are like 99% of the population. I don't mean your abilities - I mean that you, as a smart but incredibly misinformed person, behaves idiotically because you have bad information

things that leave you nattering about nothing.


But you would know how if you put the research in.

What nonsense. Read some books and get informed and make things better.

There are a whole lot of unnecessary problems we could but do not solve because the people do not get off their rear ends and lazily chew the propaganda cud fed daily.

Want to learn more? Probably not. You can explain to the cows all day, and have you seen any cow revolutions lately? .
Craig234 said:
Few people know much of the history of unions
Craig234 said:
So, no ignorance, just ignorance from you in your mistaken assumption.

You have a right to your opinion, but be intellectualy honest enough not to distort the facts by excluding the ones you want to. It's embarrassing.

I hate to brak the news to you
Craig234 said:
I think you go too far when you personalize the issue. You *cannot* protect society by expecting politicians to ignore what works and to somehow all refuse to take the corporate money.
Craig234 said:
It's easy to be arrogant
Craig234 said:
You need to translate the argument. It is basically nonsensical

And in 2006, our nation has discrimination in its law, and bigots in its voting booths.
Craig234 said:
We need look no further than your post:

Your absurd manichean view is just nonsense.
Craig234 said:
You articulated your reasons clearly - and they are wrong,

you appear not to understand

You mention that the issue involves money. It does, but you have it backwards.

You can capitalize aberration all you want,

No, you really need to apply some rational principles and get past the selfish, narrow-minded "it's icky to me and so I'll deny them equal rights" view.
Craig234 said:
do the research.
Craig234 said:
I'd say that you are the one who is one-sided.

If you only look at one side's wrongs, that's called 'bias'. You hardly present any sort of balanced picture in your post.

In short, you are the very sort of person who helps make the situation worse, IMO, with an uninformed vote of how billions are given to one side.
Craig234 said:
Or, for your even greater lack of reading comprehension, it's not for judging the people, either.

It really goes beyond the mild word 'irrational'. It's actively pursuing the worst option and not just ignoring the evidence, but misrepresenting it in a very one-sided manner.

It's a little funny the way that the topic of unions can make some people hop up and down, turn red, and speak in tongues while frothing.

You responded with something pretty nuts:
Craig234 said:
I think you confused a lot of the points so I won't try to answer each one in a tedious list.

You are oversimplifying.
Do you see any pattern here? I could go on, but I have spent enough time on you.
 
krabapple

krabapple

Banned
So, what rapier wit renamed the thread?

:rolleyes:

Might as well just close it down.
 
krabapple

krabapple

Banned
rjbudz said:
I thought you might enjoy a quick look at why I have chosen to respond to you as I have. Again...'tis not "pointless" sniping I'm doing with you. What follows is certainly an incomplete laundry list. Note all the references to a "you". (And we could start with your post, above.) Names of those to whom you were referring have been edited out.
Do you see any pattern here? I could go on, but I have spent enough time on you.
Whereas your first contribution to the thread was to *question the nationality of the person who started it*.

Jerk that knee, dude.

:rolleyes:
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
krabapple said:
Whereas your first contribution to the thread was to *question the nationality of the person who started it*.

Jerk that knee, dude.

:rolleyes:
Oh Crabbie....That was not "questioning" his nationality like some interrogation. It was asking his nationality based upon my erroneous thinking he was was another poster who earlier wouldn't tell. In my next post, I so admitted my error. Do you equate asking someone's nationality to be equivalent to calling someone a cow? Or a bigot? Or ....?

"Jerk that knee, dude."? Do you have issues, my friend? How was any of that relative to the insulting and arrogant nature of the posts to which I was referring?
 
krabapple

krabapple

Banned
rjbudz said:
Oh Crabbie....That was not "questioning" his nationality like some interrogation. It was asking his nationality based upon my erroneous thinking he was was another poster who earlier wouldn't tell.
And supposing you'd been right, what, pray tell, would that have to do with the subject...?


In my next post, I so admitted my error. Do you equate asking someone's nationality to be equivalent to calling someone a cow? Or a bigot? Or ....?
It's an odd first-reponse behavior, for sure.


"Jerk that knee, dude."? Do you have issues, my friend? How was any of that relative to the insulting and arrogant nature of the posts to which I was referring?
Stop, the irony is killing me.

:rolleyes:
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
As one of those pesky Capitalistic, Greedy, not paying my "fair share of taxes" conservatives .. an update:

My dealership partner and I just finished the purchase of another dealership. The 18 people working there get to keep their jobs, and we will likely be adding 12 more jobs in the next 24 months.

It is also a domestic dealership, and our planning volume is for $7.5 million in new vehicle sales annually.

Assistance from the government ... $0.00

Taxes the government will want ... About 32%, plus state and local.
 
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Craig234

Audioholic
Wow, no government

As one of those pesky Capitalistic, Greedy, not paying my "fair share of taxes" conservatives .. an update:

My dealership partner and I just finished the purchase of another dealership. The 18 people working there get to keep their jobs, and we will likely be adding 12 more jobs in the next 24 months.

It is also a domestic dealership, and our planning volume is for $7.5 million in new vehicle sales annually.

Assistance from the government ... $0.00

Taxes the government will want ... About 32%, plus state and local.
Wow, you did all that with $0.00 assistance from the government.

Congratulations.

So, I guess that you had $0.00 assistance from the government n protecting you from foreign invaders taking your dealership. In providing the roads on which your employees will get to your place of business. In managing the monetary system in which you get paid the money for the cars. In educating the employees who will work for you. In providing loans to the local doctors to go to medical school for your injured employee. In providing the court system under which customer disputes are settled. The police who keep your cars from being stolen. The regulators who keep the system working for you to have affordable power. From keeping your customers from financial disaster at times so the can afford to buy your cars. From zoning your city for retail in ways to improve the efficiency. From providing safety controls for the very food you eat, and safety measures for your cars which build customer confidence to buy them. And we haven't even mentioned the disabled people who may not be able to work or buy your cars, but who are not starving on the street because the more abled provide a small share of their wealth to help care for others.

As I said before, people tend to exaggerate their own roles, and none moreso than two classes - 'entrepeneurs' who indeed do deserve plenty of credit and reward but often, as you show above, take far more - I see you did not choose to do what I asked and try to put yourself in the role of someone overseeing the good of society, not just your own pockets, in fact there's no indication yo read my post since you answer $0.00 of the arguments I made.

(The second class are politicians).

I'd congratulate you on the new dealership, but I think you have more than covered all the congratulations already without any help from me.

And oh, you did not get away with the cheap rhetorical trick of trying to paint liberals as 'anti-capitalistic', to paint any entrepeneurs as 'greedy', etc.

I'm more on your side than you know. I don't mean the side of your opinions - I mean the side of you prospering, looking at the bigger picture on how you have opportunity for nice sales.

But you are off worshipping at the altar of the crooks who are taking care of themselves in ways that reduce your sales, and add debt for future Americans.

For example, when the drug companies gave huge donations to republicans, and republicans passed a drug bill which prohibited the government from negotiating lower drug prices (like the VA does), which put something like $150 billion of pure windfall profit in the pockets of the drug companies, paid for by you and me and the reduced benefits of the seniors who get the drugs, how did that help you prosper? It didn't, but you are 'on their team' because they market well to you, convincing you that the liberals hate you or something.

If you respond to my previous post to you, great. If not, I'll recognize you just want a monologue, and let you have it in peace.
 
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craigsub

Audioholic Chief
Craig234 said:
Wow, you did all that with $0.00 assistance from the government.

Congratulations.

1..... So, I guess that you had $0.00 assistance from the government n protecting you from foreign invaders taking your dealership. In providing the roads on which your employees will get to your place of business. In managing the monetary system in which you get paid the money for the cars. In educating the employees who will work for you. In providing loans to the local doctors to go to medical school for your injured employee. In providing the court system under which customer disputes are settled. The police who keep your cars from being stolen. The regulators who keep the system working for you to have affordable power. And we haven't even mentioned the disabled people who may not be able to work or buy your cars, but who are not starving on the street because the more abled provide a small share of their wealth to help care for others.

2 ... As I said before, people tend to exaggerate their own roles, and none moreso than two classes - 'entrepeneurs' who indeed do deserve plenty of credit and reward but often, as you show above, take far more - I see you did not choose to do what I asked and try to put yourself in the role of someone overseeing the good of society, not just your own pockets, in fact there's no indication yo read my post since you answer $0.00 of the arguments I made.

(The second class are politicians).

3 ... I'd congratulate you on the new dealership, but I think you have more than covered all the congratulations already without any help from me.

4 ... And oh, you did not get away with the cheap rhetorical trick of trying to paint liberals as 'anti-capitalistic', to paint any entrepeneurs as 'greedy', etc.

I'm more on your side than you know. I don't mean the side of your opinions - I mean the side of you prospering, looking at the bigger picture on how you have opportunity for nice sales.

5 ... But you are off worshipping at the altar of the crooks who are taking care of themselves in ways that reduce your sales, and add debt for future Americans.
You must make friends everywhere you go. Let us look at your view of the world one point at a time ...

1. The government collects taxes in order to fund roads, bridges, the defense department ... etc ... Our purchase of this new business did not cost the government any money. They do not have to build one more road, nor hire one more soldier. The police department is paid with local taxes. We also will be paying school taxes in the form of property tax asessment, to cover education costs. Highways and bridges are paid for by user taxes (Gas Tax, Excise Tax .. etc ... )

Loans to Doctors ? Those loans have to be repaid. With interest. Besides, how do YOU know which doctors even took student loans ? You don't.

Nice quip about the disabled. I realize this will open me up to another insult from you about "self congratulations", but we do a lot with community service. In fact, if you took away all the moneys donated by entrepreneurs, a lot of shelters, hospitals, libraries and food kitchens would fold.

The government WILL collect appx. $1 million per year in payroll income, and excise taxes from our new business.

I merely stated as fact what we will be paying.

Stating what we are paying is NOT complaining about it. I don't have a problem with paying taxes. I do have a problem being constantly told by people like you that I don't pay enough.

Why don't you tell us what you made last year, and what taxes you paid.

While you are at it, how many people did you hire last year ?

2. Entrepreneurs "exxagerate" their roles. How much money would the Federal Government have if there were no entrepeneurs ? If there was NO ONE with the courage and work ethic to start a business, Government would be broke.

"We take far more?" ... How do you know this ? I know from our own financial statements that for every dollar in profits we keep, we are paying $10 in payroll to employees.

To keep you from think this is a complaint ... it is not. I merely think people should have access to real information from someone who actually OWNS a business.

Do you think it is unreasonable for a business to pay $10 in payroll for ever $1 it earns as profit ?

3. Again with the small minded insults.

4. Where did I pain liberals as anything ? The title of this thread BASHES CONSERVATIVES ... You, sir, cannot even keep your comments truthful. I never said anything about liberals.

5. I am not worshipping anything. Again, if this confuses you, let me know.
 
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nibhaz

nibhaz

Audioholic Chief
Craig234 said:
For example, you have repeatedly 'corrected' me that when I refer to the US having democracy, I'm wrong, it's not democracy but a republic.

You are wrong, though, and would know that had you looked up the dictionary definition. Democracy included elected, representative government.
Actually, for someone that claims to be so intelligent, and claims to be a provider of perfect information you would know that labeling the US as a representative democracy is accurate, but not precise, and must in fact concede that the most precise label for the US form of government is in fact Republican. But perhaps you just prefer generalizations?

Craig234 said:
No, I would not suggest that. They lie at times; far less than republicans They feed their 'sponsors'; far less than republicans.
This is purely your opinion, nothing more.

Craig234 said:
They do tend to support trial lawyers, since republicans are dedicated to destroying much of the public's ability to hold big corporations accountable through the law. Sometimes, trial lawyers go too far and are in the wrong; other times, their opponents go too far and are in the wrong.
Again, purely your opinion, showing your bias.

Craig234 said:
Yes. My politicians are far more fighting for the good of the public, the nation and mankind than the right-wing politicians are.
There may be a trend here...what's that...biased opinions, opinions, opinions.

Craig234 said:
It's not bias. You misuse the word for something other than what it means.
Oh really, the definition of bias is an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially: a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment.

Let's take one more look

Craig234 said:
Yes. My politicians are far more fighting for the good of the public, the nation and mankind than the right-wing politicians are.
This is your perception of things, your biased view of how things are.
Someone else’s biased view may be that liberals attempt to buy the votes of weak and down trodden by making them dependent on their handouts while telling them it's not their fault, so they never take personal responsibility for their socioeconomic position. Thus creating a society that believes they are entitled to what others have worked for.


Craig234 said:
You can't look at the small fact only, the recession the economy entered as Bush took office - you need to look at the bigger picture, the policies and results economically over terms, across Regan/Bush, across Clinton's two terms, across Bush 2's term and a half. They pain a picture on my side, big time.

No, in fact, I can show that there is a strong correlation between economic positive performance and presidencies and congresses of democrats.
Please, please, do!... but make sure you provide all the US macro and microeconomic variables which are beyond the executive branches direct influence. Make sure you also provide global economic variables, as well as all confounding geopolitical variables. Global climactic data would also help. I would also ask that all of your data come from a government or true academic source. That means .gov or .edu. not .org, .com, or .net. And please, please give me something with teeth, some thing that statistically proves causation, not correlation, because someone of your intellectual superiority knows that correlation to one variable without eliminating all other confounding variables is absolutely worthless. Please no post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Ceteris paribus is not an option in this argument.

Craig234 said:
The president is the most important - while Congress fine tunes the budget and adds the pork, the president submits the starting budget and greatly influences the direction of the economy. That's why they call it Reagan's tax cut, Reagan's tax increase the following year, or Clinton's tax increase in 1993. The president has the strongest voice.
This is merely your opinion, please academically prove this claim. Stating the fact that the tax cuts under Regan are commonly labeled Regan’s proves what?


Craig234 said:
However, I will say that there can be some benefit to having the president and congress of opposite parties, checking each others' all-out waste on their party's favorite causes. What we're seeing now in the outrageous spending and debt is the result of the democrats not being in power to check the republicans' grabbing for their interests. The pretty pictures I posted show the disastrous debt they are causing.
Outside of defense spending please, show the massive increase of spending in relation to the GDP as compared to past administrations. Again I ask for academic resources.

Craig234 said:
Well, we know he would have implemented Bill Clinton's war plan on Al Queda, drawn up at the end of his term after it was confirmed Al Queda was behind the USS Cole bombing - thw plan Clinton gave to Bush to let him decide, while his cabinet warned the incoming Bushies that Al Queda was the #1 threat to deal with.
In actuality, this is perhaps the scariest thing you’ve said so far! Seriously, you are kidding me right! Gore would have put in place Clinton’s strategic defense policy...well, let’s take a look at what that would have looked like based on Clinton’s track record.

The first terrorist attack on World Trade Centers on February 26, 1993, resulted in no response from Clinton.

The second terrorist attack was on the Khobar Towers in June of 1996, Clinton response nothing.

The third terrorist attack was in 1998 on the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania Clinton response: cruise missile strike.

The Forth terrorist strike October 12, 2000 on the U.S.S. Cole…nothing.

Is this the plan you’re talking about? I must concede that Clinton’s administration had taken notice of Al Queda and was collecting intelligence, but when it came to taking military action to prevent future terrorist attacks the administration just didn’t have the mettle. In the fall of 2000 Predator drones transmitted real time video of Bin Laden at the Tarnak Farm, resulting in no action from the Administration. Never mind the fact that the Sudanese government had attempted to offer Bin Laden on a silver platter in the late 90’s, but again the Administration failed to attack

Craig234 said:
Bush's government, contemptuous and doing the opposite of anything Clinton did usually, did almost nothing against terrorism for 9 months. They had no meetings on terrorism, it was not discussed hardly at all at NSC meetings (Iraq was), the justice dpeartment's top 10 priorities exluded terrorims altogether, the war plan was put on the shelf. Who knows, maybe Gore could have disrupted 9/11, as Cinton disrupted the bombing of LAX in 2000.
First off, were you at these meetings? Do you have Top Secret clearance and first hand knowledge of these meetings, or is this merely more speculation, more hearsay?

Craig234 said:
But we don't know for sure what Gore would have done on some things (had 9/11 occured it's clear he would have invaded Afghanistan, and that he would not have pursued the war in Iraq. He may have taken lesser measures to try to overthrow Saddam, but he would not have followed the Project for a New American Century war policy). All in all, his policies were much closer to the views the public held as shown in polls.
Actually, you’ve already stated that Gore would’ve taken the same approach to the terrorist attack as Clinton had in the past. Which means we’ve might have seen some cruise missiles at best. However the past record really suggests that there would have been some strong rhetoric, with little action.

Craig234 said:
And there's *huge* corrupt spending he would not have pursued for republican interests. He and Clinton took the huge debt of Reagan/Bush and balanced the budget, while Bush 2 skytocketed the debt back up with money for the most wealthy and corrupt spending. Look at Clinton for an idea what Gore would have done.
Again you are trying to present things in a vacuum, without taking into account all of the confounding variables that apply to your juxtapositions. It would have been quite interesting to see what Gore would have done after loss of tax revenue from the crash of the internet boom, and the economic fallout of 9/11. The only way he could have balanced the budget would’ve been by reducing government allocations to social programs…which you and I know he would have never done.

Craig234 said:
Gore did win the election by the way. He officially won the popular vote, and he actually won the electoral vote.
Keep telling yourself this! And keeping spewing this blather, it shows your bias.

Craig234 said:
Whether you want to use the screwup on the butterfly ballot (it was an accident, but it robbed thousands of voters of their intended vote), or the measures which kept thousands of blacks from voting through such acts as the voter purge lists designed to target blacks (92% Gore voters), or the recount sponsored by the media which showed that Gore won under *every* scenario involving a statewide recount, he won the election.
That ballot design was approved by Democrats as well as Republicans so where is the big conspiracy there? I also find your bigoted assertion that blacks were not intelligent enough to understand the ballot layout deplorable at best.

Craig234 said:
It's unamerican to put your candidate ahead of the desire of the voters and sneer at the election going to the person the people did not elect.
Again, merely your biased opinion.

Craig234 said:
It's Talk about bias!
Yes, talk about your bias:eek:
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
nibhaz said:
Actually, for someone that claims to be so intelligent, and claims to be a provider of perfect information you would know that labeling the US as a representative democracy is accurate, but not precise, and must in fact concede that the most precise label for the US form of government is in fact Republican. But perhaps you just prefer generalizations?



This is purely your opinion, nothing more.



Again, purely your opinion, showing your bias.



There may be a trend here...what's that...biased opinions, opinions, opinions.



Oh really, the definition of bias is an inclination of temperament or outlook; especially: a personal and sometimes unreasoned judgment.

Let's take one more look



This is your perception of things, your biased view of how things are.
Someone else’s biased view may be that liberals attempt to buy the votes of weak and down trodden by making them dependent on their handouts while telling them it's not their fault, so they never take personal responsibility for their socioeconomic position. Thus creating a society that believes they are entitled to what others have worked for.




Please, please, do!... but make sure you provide all the US macro and microeconomic variables which are beyond the executive branches direct influence. Make sure you also provide global economic variables, as well as all confounding geopolitical variables. Global climactic data would also help. I would also ask that all of your data come from a government or true academic source. That means .gov or .edu. not .org, .com, or .net. And please, please give me something with teeth, some thing that statistically proves causation, not correlation, because someone of your intellectual superiority knows that correlation to one variable without eliminating all other confounding variables is absolutely worthless. Please no post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Ceteris paribus is not an option in this argument.



This is merely your opinion, please academically prove this claim. Stating the fact that the tax cuts under Regan are commonly labeled Regan’s proves what?




Outside of defense spending please, show the massive increase of spending in relation to the GDP as compared to past administrations. Again I ask for academic resources.



In actuality, this is perhaps the scariest thing you’ve said so far! Seriously, you are kidding me right! Gore would have put in place Clinton’s strategic defense policy...well, let’s take a look at what that would have looked like based on Clinton’s track record.

The first terrorist attack on World Trade Centers on February 26, 1993, resulted in no response from Clinton.

The second terrorist attack was on the Khobar Towers in June of 1996, Clinton response nothing.

The third terrorist attack was in 1998 on the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania Clinton response: cruise missile strike.

The Forth terrorist strike October 12, 2000 on the U.S.S. Cole…nothing.

Is this the plan you’re talking about? I must concede that Clinton’s administration had taken notice of Al Queda and was collecting intelligence, but when it came to taking military action to prevent future terrorist attacks the administration just didn’t have the mettle. In the fall of 2000 Predator drones transmitted real time video of Bin Laden at the Tarnak Farm, resulting in no action from the Administration. Never mind the fact that the Sudanese government had attempted to offer Bin Laden on a silver platter in the late 90’s, but again the Administration failed to attack



First off, were you at these meetings? Do you have Top Secret clearance and first hand knowledge of these meetings, or is this merely more speculation, more hearsay?



Actually, you’ve already stated that Gore would’ve taken the same approach to the terrorist attack as Clinton had in the past. Which means we’ve might have seen some cruise missiles at best. However the past record really suggests that there would have been some strong rhetoric, with little action.



Again you are trying to present things in a vacuum, without taking into account all of the confounding variables that apply to your juxtapositions. It would have been quite interesting to see what Gore would have done after loss of tax revenue from the crash of the internet boom, and the economic fallout of 9/11. The only way he could have balanced the budget would’ve been by reducing government allocations to social programs…which you and I know he would have never done.



Keep telling yourself this! And keeping spewing this blather, it shows your bias.



That ballot design was approved by Democrats as well as Republicans so where is the big conspiracy there? I also find your bigoted assertion that blacks were not intelligent enough to understand the ballot layout deplorable at best.



Again, merely your biased opinion.



Yes, talk about your bias:eek:

Nibhaz....that is a really nice post, well thought out, detailed, accurate, and fair. I just didn't have energy to beat my head against that wall anymore (which I fear you just did). He's on a mission and no amount of logic will prevail against his intractible political bias, nor his constant character assassinations. Hopefully others will appreciate the veracity of your replies.

Good cheer.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....why don't we all just go ahead and pretend like we don't vote the party that will benefit us the most on an individual basis....you bet, I'm in a labor union and support the middle class, so I vote Democratic....repugs vote for personal gain and the elimination of the middle class, period....no need to post any eronious stats that are crap, either....
 
warhummer

warhummer

Junior Audioholic
mulester7 said:
.....why don't we all just go ahead and pretend like we don't vote the party that will benefit us the most on an individual basis....you bet, I'm in a labor union and support the middle class, so I vote Democratic....repugs vote for personal gain and the elimination of the middle class, period....no need to post any eronious stats that are crap, either....
Can you please define "middle class"? I might have to change my voting habits.
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
warhummer said:
Can you please define "middle class"? I might have to change my voting habits.
.....well, WarHummer, from what Craig234 said, evidently the middle class is just above poverty and minimum wage, up to just short of the top 1% of the workforce....is that the impression you got?......
 
C

craigsub

Audioholic Chief
mulester7 said:
.....why don't we all just go ahead and pretend like we don't vote the party that will benefit us the most on an individual basis....you bet, I'm in a labor union and support the middle class, so I vote Democratic....repugs vote for personal gain and the elimination of the middle class, period....no need to post any eronious stats that are crap, either....
This whole myth that the Republican party only favors the upper 1% is just plain a lie. Of course, as the following information is directly from the IRS, and not some nut case blog, I am sure you will call it "crap".

The following tax rates were in effect in 2000 for a married filing jointly return. Also, there was a $500 tax credit per child.....

0-$43,850 ..................... 15%
$43,850 to $105,950 ....... 28%
$105,950 to $161,450...... 31%
$161,450 to $288,350 ......36%
$288,350 and up .............39.6%

Here are the 2006 rates, and the child tax credit is doubled to $1000 per child, as long as one's income is under $110,000

0-$15,100 .......................10%
$15,100 to $61,300 ...........15%
$61,300 to $123,700 ..........25%
$123,700 to $188,450 ........28%
$188,450 to $335,550 ........33%
$335,550 and up ...............35%

Here are the actual taxes paid for a family of four, based on AGI, and taking into account the child tax credit, for both 2000 and 2006. We will also see the % cut for each group.

$20,000 AGI .... 2000 - $2000 .... 2006 - $245 .... % cut - 87.8 %

$40,000 AGI .... 2000 - $5000 ..... 2006 - $3235 ... % cut - 35.3%

$60,000 AGI .... 2000 - $10,100 .... 2006 - $6245 ... % cut - 38.1%

$1,000,000 AGI ... 2000 - $368,000 ... 2006 - $324,000 ... % cut - 12%

The middle class saw a much higher percentage reduction in taxes paid than did the wealthy.

The $20000 earner now pays 1.23 % of his income in taxes

$40000 .... 8.1 % of income to taxes

$60000 .... 10.41 % of income to taxes

$1,000,000 ... 32.4% of income to taxes.

Feel free to look all this up, too. :)
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
.....Craig, what type of existance would it be to only have enough to eat and pay $100 a month to be crammed into a relative's house, with about 12 people sharing the one bathroom?....the poor up to minumum-wage shouldn't be taxed at all....at all....let's see, from your stats, a person making a million a year will pay 32.4% in taxes, and will only have around $670,000 left to get by on, bless their hearts....and they still cry too much is being held out and it ain't fair the poor should go ahead and fill graves....no man can serve two masters.....
 
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craigsub

Audioholic Chief
mulester7 said:
.....Craig, what type of existance would it be to only have enough to eat and pay $100 a month to be crammed into a relative's house, with about 12 people sharing the one bathroom....the poor up to minumum-wage shouldn't be taxed at all....at all....let's see, from your stats, a person making a million a year will pay 32.4% in taxes, and will only have around $670,000 left to get by on, bless their hearts....and they still cry too much is being held out and it ain't fair the poor should go ahead and fill graves....no man can serve two masters.....
Mulester, The minimum wage individual pays 0% in taxes. Nothing.

And TRY to follow along here: These are not "my stats". They are IRS numbers available on the IRS website.

And, Mulester, would you at least ATTEMPT to be realistic ? How many people do you know that make $1,000,000 per year ? I know quite a few, and they never complain about paying taxes.

This "cry too much is being held out" is pure BS on your part.
 
C

Craig234

Audioholic
Craigsub, you have yet to answer the facts in post #51, though you were reminded to in my last post.

You did respond to that post, somewhat - why, #51 is the main one for you to answer, if you are wanting a conversation.

I'll withhold comment other than that until I see if you are going to answer it.

With one exception, this last post:

Mulester, The minimum wage individual pays 0% in taxes. Nothing.
Of course, this is completely wrong.

The minimum wage individual pays all kinds of taxes, from payroll taxes to sales taxes to property taxes, either directly or in their rent.

You can get a little blood from a turnip after all.

How many people do you know that make $1,000,000 per year ? I know quite a few, and they never complain about paying taxes.
What a joke. They are waging an enormous war against paying the taxes they pay. You may not hear them say anything socially, but they certainly fund radical anti-tax politicians.

Read David Cay Johnston's book for some facts, "Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich - and Cheat Everybody Else"

The subtitle gives you a hint there may be more than you are saying with your 'they never complain' comment. Johnston is a Pulitzer Prize winner, and the NY Times' tax reporter.

It's not a perfect book but there is plenty to shock you and far better inform you.

Here, it's only a click away on sale for $7.99:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0008102D6/sr=8-1/qid=1152320382/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-1096784-6332741?ie=UTF8
 
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mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
Craig234 said:
Craigsub, you have yet to answer the facts in post #51, though you were reminded to in my last post.

You did respond to that post, somewhat - why, #51 is the main one for you to answer, if you are wanting a conversation.

I'll withhold comment other than that until I see if you are going to answer it.

With one exception, this last post:



Of course, this is completely wrong.

The minimum wage individual pays all kinds of taxes, from payroll taxes to sales taxes to property taxes, either directly or in their rent.

You can get a little blood from a turnip after all.



What a joke. They are waging an enormous war against paying the taxes they pay. You may not hear them say anything socially, but they certainly fund radical anti-tax politicians.

Read David Cay Johnston's book for some facts, "Perfectly Legal: The Covert Campaign to Rig Our Tax System to Benefit the Super Rich - and Cheat Everybody Else"

The subtitle gives you a hint there may be more than you are saying with your 'they never complain' comment. Johnston is a Pulitzer Prize winner, and the NY Times' tax reporter.

It's not a perfect book but there is plenty to shock you and far better inform you.

Here, it's only a click away on sale for $7.99:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0008102D6/sr=8-1/qid=1152320382/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-1096784-6332741?ie=UTF8
.....Craigsub....yeah, what he said, haha......
 
JeffD2.

JeffD2.

Audioholic
.....Craig, what type of existance would it be to only have enough to eat and pay $100 a month to be crammed into a relative's house, with about 12 people sharing the one bathroom?....
That would suck. Guess they should have stayed in school, kept off drugs, entered the country legally, not been a teen pregnency statistic, and just PERHAPS exercised a little personal responsibililty. Tough nuts. You reap what you sew.
the poor up to minumum-wage shouldn't be taxed at all....at all....
I'll go along with that, but according to law, you have to at least file a return.
let's see, from your stats, a person making a million a year will pay 32.4% in taxes, and will only have around $670,000 left to get by on, bless their hearts....and they still cry too much is being held out
Try being a business owner, you don't put in 8 hour days with ½ hr. lunch break, you typically will put in 10-14 hrs a day. You bust your arse, take the risks that other don't, and reap the rewards for it. I guess the crack heads should "have it all" too.
and it ain't fair the poor should go ahead and fill graves....no man can serve two masters.....
Please explain the above, especially about filling graves.:rolleyes:
 
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