Compare and contrast: which integrated amplifier?

[lovinthehd]

Most AVR's have to be made with cost cutting to all manner of components in order to pay the fees associated with all those stickers and logos on the outside of the box and keep pricing as low as they do. An integrated amp that doesn't have to pay for firmware, chips, ports and licenses associated with DTS, Atmos, HDMI, HDCP, Audyssey and so on. On an integrated amp the money (usually a higher amount) is spent on more robust toroidal transformers, circuits, wiring and other things related to improving sound quality. Less of them are sold (by orders of magnitude) so it's accepted by those who consider them that they cost "more per output watt."

When you refer to "integrated amps with only a "cutoff" of 100hz for the sub without a similar filter for the speakers is lame", are there examples of how this has tested to be true? I've heard Parasound Integrated and today the new Rotel RA-1592 and was very impressed that I noticed right away how nice they sound as compared to the Marantz SR5010 that was also demonstrated. It's not a HUGE difference, so one has to rationalize what value it is to oneself.

I just think it's lame for modern integrated amps with digital capabilities to not include proper bass managment....without a real dbt test who knows what you experienced.

 

[lovinthehd]

Most AVR's have to be made with cost cutting to all manner of components in order to pay the fees associated with all those stickers and logos on the outside of the box and keep pricing as low as they do. An integrated amp that doesn't have to pay for firmware, chips, ports and licenses associated with DTS, Atmos, HDMI, HDCP, Audyssey and so on. On an integrated amp the money (usually a higher amount) is spent on more robust toroidal transformers, circuits, wiring and other things related to improving sound quality. Less of them are sold (by orders of magnitude) so it's accepted by those who consider them that they cost "more per output watt."

When you refer to "integrated amps with only a "cutoff" of 100hz for the sub without a similar filter for the speakers is lame", are there examples of how this has tested to be true? I've heard Parasound Integrated and today the new Rotel RA-1592 and was very impressed that I noticed right away how nice they sound as compared to the Marantz SR5010 that was also demonstrated. It's not a HUGE difference, so one has to rationalize what value it is to oneself.

What makes you think that with the very limited number of "integrated 2ch amps" that Yamaha issues that there'd be much difference, if any, over their avr line? Doesn't make much sense....the licenses aren't that costly nor are the bean counters saying let's do something extraordinary for the luddites still buried in 2ch land?

 

[lovinthehd]

Most all consumer electronics are made with cost cutting in mind. The licensing for such as Yamaha I'd think is minimal. You may be interested in your sighted/review based gear but over the years I've found that pretty much useles..YMMV.

 

[lovinthehd]

As an example of where bass comes into picture....try this at high volume AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

 

[lovinthehd]

Most AVR's have to be made with cost cutting to all manner of components in order to pay the fees associated with all those stickers and logos on the outside of the box and keep pricing as low as they do. An integrated amp that doesn't have to pay for firmware, chips, ports and licenses associated with DTS, Atmos, HDMI, HDCP, Audyssey and so on. On an integrated amp the money (usually a higher amount) is spent on more robust toroidal transformers, circuits, wiring and other things related to improving sound quality. Less of them are sold (by orders of magnitude) so it's accepted by those who consider them that they cost "more per output watt."

When you refer to "integrated amps with only a "cutoff" of 100hz for the sub without a similar filter for the speakers is lame", are there examples of how this has tested to be true? I've heard Parasound Integrated and today the new Rotel RA-1592 and was very impressed that I noticed right away how nice they sound as compared to the Marantz SR5010 that was also demonstrated. It's not a HUGE difference, so one has to rationalize what value it is to oneself.

]

Limited bass management is what it is...you can imagine you don't need it or not. I prefer it. If you think others may not benefit from it, whatever....

I wouldn't follow your path in this regard, have done so in the past and was disappointed.

 

[lovinthehd]

So do low production number integrated amps....you seem to be more influenced by reviews rather than reality IMO. YMMV

 

[PENG]

I understand the OP only needs two channel but for $499.99 plus one year manufacturer warranty I would take advantage of those ACFL offers such as the one linked below.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marsr6009/marantz-sr6009-7.2-ch-x-110-watts-networking-a/v-receiver-bonus-hdmi-cables-100-value/1.html

The SR6009 actually has a phono input for MM cartridge. It also has streaming capabilities including DSD (in direct/pure direct) and decent bass management features including Audyssey XT.

 

[herbu]

I would look for an inexpensive receiver and leave as much budget as possible for the speakers. For $1k total, that means giving up some features.

Here's my thinking. If you spend $500 for an AVR with bass mgmt and all the features, you're left w/ $500 for 2 speakers and no sub. You'll have features you can't use, and 2 speakers that are not as good as they could be. This is the system you'll live with until you decide to upgrade, if you decide to upgrade, and while you save $ to upgrade.

I would go with what sounds best for your $1k now. If/when you decide to upgrade, you can... but in the meantime you have something that sounds as good as it can.

I'm not an expert. Some here are, and can perhaps tell if anything is wrong with these choices. But I might look at something like this:

2-channel Yamaha networking receiver: $209.99
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamrn301bl/yamaha-r-n301-2-ch-x-100-watts-networking-stereo-receiver/1.html

B-stock Ascend Sierra-1 speakers: $746.24
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=9SRM1PPBS&Category_Code=BSTOCK

I'm OK buying refurb from A4L, and B-stock from the manufacturer Ascend. I'd be less inclined to do something like Craig's List, but that's just me. I think the system above would sound real good.

 

[KenM10759]

So do low production number integrated amps....you seem to be more influenced by reviews rather than reality IMO. YMMV

Wow. Six replies in a row, my worthless opinions must have grated you. I'm sorry. I will keep them to myself so you don't wear out your keyboard.

 

[Lauben]

Thanks once again to all for your help. I've been looking at speakers, following the general advice here, but there's a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg problem. I'll need an amplifier to test them out at home. The question then is: should I just narrow down the choice of speakers to a handful and then buy an amplifier with those particular speakers in mind?

I realize this is all rather basic stuff, and I appreciate your patience with me.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Thanks once again to all for your help. I've been looking at speakers, following the general advice here, but there's a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg problem. I'll need an amplifier to test them out at home. The question then is: should I just narrow down the choice of speakers to a handful and then buy an amplifier with those particular speakers in mind?

I realize this is all rather basic stuff, and I appreciate your patience with me.

While I strong proponent of least amount of money for electronics, I still consider that there is such thing as minimum requirements which electronics must match.
I +1 on Peng post above. Even though it will eat half of your (rather modest) budget on electronics, but it will give you a solid base for many years to come. Including must have things like: photo input, bass management, pre-outs, dac, network player,good auto room correction and good amp(s).

Other half of your budget I'd recommend to look at these http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340m.html
It now includes free shipping and return (I have yet to hear of one person who didn't like these)

 

[Mark of Cenla]

An Onkyo or Yamaha integrated amp will sound good, have a subwoofer output, have a phono input, and will be less than $500. I like my Onkyo A-9050, which I use in my office/mancave system, also has a built-in quality DAC. I also have two AVR's (a Yamaha and a Pioneer) that have only been used in stereo. Amps/receivers do not sound as different as speakers, so it makes more sense to spend less on a receiver/amp and more on speakers. Peace and goodwill.

 

[lovinthehd]

Wow. Six replies in a row, my worthless opinions must have grated you. I'm sorry. I will keep them to myself so you don't wear out your keyboard.

Whatever, yes, I often don't agree with you.

 

[herbu]

While I strong proponent of least amount of money for electronics, I still consider that there is such thing as minimum requirements which electronics must match.

Agree. But I would consider 2 things...
1) Do you think you'll expand/grow your system?
2) Can you attach a TV/monitor to use the on-screen setup guides/menu?

If you answer "yes" to both those questions, then it would be worth your while to consider a higher functioning AVR.

 

[Lauben]

OK, I will look into AVRs. I've some space constraints, so I'm a little reluctant to look at some of the AVRs mentioned thus far. Do any one of you have any sense of how the 'slim line' of Marantz's AVRs compares with something like the the SR6009? In particular, I'm thinking of this:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marnr1606/marantz-nr1606-slimline-7.2-ch-x-50-watts-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html?gclid=COGgiJSGj80CFdhahgod5GcGGA

I see that there's a 50w difference between them, but I'm not quite sure how much that matters given my other constraints (space, budget for speakers, etc.)

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts.

 

[Lauben]

Agree. But I would consider 2 things...
1) Do you think you'll expand/grow your system?
2) Can you attach a TV/monitor to use the on-screen setup guides/menu?

If you answer "yes" to both those questions, then it would be worth your while to consider a higher functioning AVR.

I'm pretty sure I will not be connecting a TV/monitor to it. As for expanding, etc: yes, I suppose I'd like to be able to upgrade some of the components in the long run. But the current plan is to have the TV setup in a different room, so whether I get an AVR or a receiver or an integrated amplifier, it would only be for music.

 

[herbu]

I'm pretty sure I will not be connecting a TV/monitor to it. As for expanding, etc: yes, I suppose I'd like to be able to upgrade some of the components in the long run... only be for music.

If you get a 2-channel system, with all the features you want, your only "upgrade" in the future would be the speakers.

But BSA and Peng make a good point. It might be easier to find an AVR with the versatility of bass mgmt and Audyssey or YPAO. Those things are very useful for music, even stereo. But you may have to temporarily connect a TV to walk through the features and settings initially. They're tough to follow and understand using only the panel on the AVR. But once you understand them, and get them set, you can remove the TV.

 

[Lauben]

Oh, I see. That's very helpful, thanks.