Cold and Flu season - heres a cure

[mtrycrafts]

The bubbling isn't related to the degree of any illness or the killing of bacteria or viruses, it's the reaction of the H2O2 with the wax in the ear canal yielding O2 (bubbles), H2O water, and softened wax or wax in solution with the water. H2O2 applied in the ear of anyone with wax in their ear (regardless whether they are sick or not) will result in bubbling due to the reaction of the H2O2 with the wax...etc. It is not indicative of the H2O2 working on any bacterial or viral infection, it just shows you have wax in your ears!

In most cases, experimenting with H2O2 in ones ear won't hurt you, other than maybe drying out the skin in your ear canal, but if someone has any perforation of their tympanic membrane (ear drum), they could do further harm by pouring anything in their ear no matter what it is. So be careful before you start trying this at home if you have any medical history w/ your ear canal or tymp. membrane.

Next, Cold & flu effects in ones throat & chest could not possibly be affected by administration of H2O2 to the ear. Unless one does have a perforated tympanic membrane (most of you should not), no solution/drops applied to the external ear canal would pass the tympanic membrane to get into the middle ear or eustachian tube to the sinuses or anywhere else, so unless the virus or bacteria that one is infected with is only present outside the tympanic membrane, H2O2 applied into the ear would have no systemic effects, no effects outside the external ear canal.

Next, even if there was no tympanic membrane, the H2O2 into the external ear would react and turn to water and oxygen before it made it far down the eustachian tube into the sinuses, but again, this speculation is pointless since the tympanic membrane IS there to block the passage into the ear. This is why when we have patients with middle ear infections (otitis media), we treat them with oral antibiotics, usually amoxicillin, 2nd generation cephalosporin such as cefuroxime, or trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole, not with drops into the outer ear, because that is ineffective in all but localized external ear (otitis externa) infections like swimmers ear, which is usually due to Pseudomonas aeruginosa. Cold & flu infections are not external ear infections.



The idea of cold & flu bacteria & viruses only infecting you through your ears is simply incorrect... Nose & mouth.

If someone has "tubes in their ears", hydrogen peroxide has been used as prophalaxys to keep the tubes opened if they become chronically blocked (blocked tympanostomy), as an option instead of removing and reinserting new tubes. Other than this and the usual removal of hardened ear wax, H2O2 poured in the ears is pretty much useless. If it makes one's cold or flu feel better, then go for it (placebo), but there is no medical reasoning for it.
Brad

Thanks for your thorough explanation of this, doc.
Isn't it funny that just because some Dr makes a claim it is accepted unchallenged? There are plenty of Mds that fall for silly urban legends and pure bs. Some even make it to TV and gets a following. Reminds me of audio how some EEs, working in audio, are so gullible to audio bs and voodoo.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I don't know about the science behind it (if any).....I started to get a cold about a week ago (I have a 4 year old, he brings everything home from pre-k) I had not read this thread (so I wasn't biased)

Humans are biased as a given, defacto condition.

I started using HP and it actually kept my cold from developing.

Maybe yes, most likely other factors in play.

an MD buddy said he'd heard about it....

And? He recommends this to his patients? Ask for true and credible clinical trials on this.
I say this because Airborne advertised 'clinical trials' only to be found fraud and no longer allowed to claim this.

..I tried it and damn it, it worked,

No. You tried it and the cold went away, didn't materialize or you didn't have a cold to begin with, but it is not evidence that this method worked.
I'd say, it is exactly parallel in audio:
I tried this cable, heard a difference, so it makes a difference.

also gets rid of bad breath, gingivitis, sore gums, canker sores

Totally a different issue. Just because it may work on these doesn't mean it works for colds, through the ear canal.
Better listen to some expert testimony who a cold/flew is transmitted.


I know this sounds like real snake oil, but man it really worked and I wasn't expecting it to. (no placebo)

Sorry, not convincing testimonial

 

[mtrycrafts]

Maybe it doesn't need to. The placebo effect, as you of all people know, is very powerful.

My question there was a rhetorical one to that doc Let her try to find the answer
Yes, placebo is powerful but is not enough for the real nasties in illness where you really need to kill some of the virus, or fix things. that, the mind will not accomplish. And, state of mind is important but not the be all answer

 

[stratman]

Just one question: Those that question the results, have you tried it? I don't have an axe to grind; simple question: Have you tried it??

How about chicken soup? For years moms all over would give chicken soup to help get rid of colds, and everybody laughed, remember. Then science finally catches up and says; Yup. I reckons it does work, whadd'ya know, huh? If something works it works.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Excellent point. I'm all against snake oil - expensive snake oil.

I know. that is why my comment in the first place. Applying skeptical thinking to all aspects in the consumer marketplace, including medicine.

I don't disagree this remedy doesn't fall into the bounds of a magical cure. All I'm saying is this works for me,

Isn't this contradictory? If this falls into magic, why would it then work for you, or anyone? There is no magic, just lack of understanding so far. I doubt the mechanism for colds and flue falls into that category?

If you do feel a cold or flu coming on, try it. If it doesn't work, what have you lost?

Skeptical thinking

If you think taking vitamin C or zinc pills works better, go for it.

Vitamin C doesn't work either. Not sure about the zink.

If you avoid shaking hands, children, or people in general, then you probably don't get sick in the first place.

I can do that

H2O2 bubbles (releases oxygen) when introduced to bacteria or fungus. Try some in the bathroom drain, or on your hand, or on the counter, or on your toothbrush. Hospitals use it in sterlising equipment, and dentists use it when performing root canals.

I think you need to read Zildjian's post. He may be a doc and just may know why it bubbles. But, I think I chopped the link
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=218671#

 

[mtrycrafts]

Take it easy Buck...i know this would come anyway so i'm not that surprised. Being in a forum full of smart, critical and sometimes cynical members you gotta expect this gonna come. Anyway, I agree totally with you that eventhough there's no real paper to prove any of the thing you said in your first post, it's hard for me to see why some folks are so hard on the issue. It's .99 in my area for a big bottle of it. Don;t compare it to Bose equivalent stuff. If you find it hard to spend .45-.99 and think it's a waste of your money, i'll help Buck refund your money (receipt of purchase required ).

It is not the price at all. The main point is that it is an urban legend, unproven. Critical thinking should be practiced not just in audio but in all marketplaces and human endeavor.
Like Carl Sagan was so found of saying ' Don't leave the baloney detection bag at the office' or some similar words.

Besides, we are buds, buckey and me

 

[mtrycrafts]

Just one question: Those that question the results, have you tried it? I don't have an axe to grind; simple question: Have you tried it??

How about chicken soup? For years moms all over would give chicken soup to help get rid of colds, and everybody laughed, remember. Then science finally catches up and says; Yup. I reckons it does work, whadd'ya know, huh? If something works it works.

Irrelevant question. My trying it has no relevance to this issue working or not.
If it works, clinical trials will show that it works, period. Anecdotes, testimonials as these here is not evidence of anything working. Unreliable information. Just because moms use chicken soup doesn't mean it gets rid of cold. Chicken soup is good, and one needs fluids when they have a cold or flue. Oh, show me that evidence for chicken soup. I think I missed that issue of the Journal of Medicine.

No difference from audio: if you haven't tried it, you cannot say it doesn't work. Absolute nonsense. I don't need to try anything and can rely on credible evidence to show things work or don't work.
I rather not reinvent the wheel at every corner.

 

[mtrycrafts]

That's the same thing people selling super duper $100 a foot speaker wire, magic tuning rocks, and other snake oil products always say...

Carl Sagan would say that someone left their baloney detection bag at the office

 

[stratman]

mtrycrafts.....have you tried it? What if it does work but no one has done a trial yet? Would that disqualify it? Untill science says it works? I just read this in kidshealth.com " chicken soup contains a mucus-thinning amino acid called cysteine and some research shows chicken soup helps control congestion-causing white cells called neutrophils". While this is a far cry from saying it's a cure all for a cold it could well support that a patient that feels better heals faster.

 

[Buckle-meister]

...the only proof that is needed is that this method works. Since there is none, it doesn't.

No, that's not strictly correct. Since there is none, it just means that the jury's still out there. It may work even though it hasn't yet been clinicly tested. Or it may not.

mtrycrafts.....have you tried it? What if it does work but no one has done a trial yet?

Exactly.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Exactly.

No, that is incorrect. My trying it will not confirm it efficacy as I am in not in a position to do a clinical placebo controlled trial. No different from me listening to a cable under biased conditions; meaningless.

 

[mtrycrafts]

mtrycrafts.....have you tried it? What if it does work but no one has done a trial yet? Would that disqualify it? Untill science says it works? I just read this in kidshealth.com " chicken soup contains a mucus-thinning amino acid called cysteine and some research shows chicken soup helps control congestion-causing white cells called neutrophils". While this is a far cry from saying it's a cure all for a cold it could well support that a patient that feels better heals faster.

And, you trying it will qualify its efficacy? Under what conditions will you try it? Can you conduct a bias controlled DBT trial? What, you cannot? Then, your trial is meaningless, just like any other such claim for anything, be it audio or homeopathic medicine or psychics, for that matter.

Controlling congestion is after the fact. That is what other medications do as well.

Cold and flue virus need a respiratory passage to affect the body, period. The ear canal is not one of that method of catching and passing this virus to the body, period. It cannot work. The bubbling has been mischaracterized as having a meaning in this case. It doesn't.

This is why so much garbage is out there for cures that is worthless. So easy to jump on it, humans are so gullible. Same reason why cables and other products of snake oil fame are such a big item in audio. No different from the peroxide.

 

[stratman]

Correct me if I'm wrong: Six people use HP and it "cuts" their cold, is that a placebo if not tested under certain conditions? If it works, will that still deny it's efficacy because it wasn't done according to protocol? What about Chinese medicine? What's your take on it? Western science over that last few decades has come to the conclusion that it works and I seriously doubt that the Chinese had elaborate DBT thousands of years ago. My point is sometimes science doesn't get around to "testing" all variables, specially some that might not be "high-brow" scientifically speaking (chicken soup).

I don't have a hard opinion on what's considered scientific fact, science is constantly re-writing itself as new discoveries are made. So who is to say it doesn't work, like ZICAM (a lot of people swear by it, it makes me sick to my stomach), in my experience HP worked, I'll try again, most likely I will get another cold soon thanks to my kid, I'll give HP a try on the onset and take notes, wait for another cold, won't try it and take notes....not very scientific, but I would consider it a valid observation. Then I'll post.

And, cables are cables right? Not a human body full of variables (and germs)

 

[Buckle-meister]

No, that is incorrect. My trying it will not confirm it efficacy as I am in not in a position to do a clinical placebo controlled trial.

I never said that you trying it would confirm whether or not it worked. I'm saying that if there isn't any data, that until there is you yourself cannot definitively say that it doesn't work because that has yet to be determined.

You may choose not to try something or another because of a lack of evidence conclusively demonstrating that it does work, but that's an altogether separate thing.

 

[stratman]

Robbie: Amen.

 

[zildjian]

If anyone wants a better idea as to where the H2O2 goes (or doesn't go) once poured into the ear canal, just google "ear anatomy" and click on images to see ear cross section diagrams. The external ear canal is essentially a tube with a membrane at the end that seals it, no where to go, one might as well pour H2O2 in their bellybutton and let it soak, and it'd have just as much chance of going anywhere in your body or having any effects systemically (you could at least maybe see some bubbles!). Again, look up ear anatomy and see where you are talking about putting H2O2, it shouldn't take much more than this by anyone to start to see how laughable this whole thing is. Anything poured into your ear stays outside of your body unless you have a hole in your ear drum.

 

[zildjian]

Here are a couple images. Anything poured into the external ear stays there, that's why you can see in the first picture, when ear canal flushing is done, the water and peroxide mixture doesn't wash anything anywhere but out of the canal. It's a sealed tube.

 

[Tomorrow]

Here are a couple images. Anything poured into the external ear stays there, that's why you can see in the first picture, when ear canal flushing is done, the water and peroxide mixture doesn't wash anything anywhere but out of the canal. It's a sealed tube.

LOL, it's all falling on deaf ears, Brad! (Too much HP. )

They even have the pseudo-scientific bent..."It COULD be effective. We don't know everything. Science changes all the time. Etc." This is what keeps wive's tales alive. "It worked for Uncle Charlie. Don't knock it till you've tried it!"

Maybe you just started something, though. Now people everywhere are gonna try putting HP in their navels to see if it cures the 'stomach flu'.

LOL.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Now people everywhere are gonna try putting HP in their navels to see if it cures the 'stomach flu'.

LOL.

HUH? Don't knock it unless you have tried it.
LOL

 

[stratman]

LOL, it's all falling on deaf ears, Brad! (Too much HP. )

They even have the pseudo-scientific bent..."It COULD be effective. We don't know everything. Science changes all the time. Etc." This is what keeps wive's tales alive. "It worked for Uncle Charlie. Don't knock it till you've tried it!"

Maybe you just started something, though. Now people everywhere are gonna try putting HP in their navels to see if it cures the 'stomach flu'.

LOL.

I don't think trying something to find out if it works is pseudo scientific, in fact trial is the basis for science...I personally didn't put HP in my ear, I gargled with it and I still stand by the effect.