Clip light coming on subwoofer amp

[lovinthehd]

Actually, I did download a manual entitled, "Denon AVR2308CI Manual Explained." The guy straightened out a lot of stuff.

Where I get stuck is trying to figure out all the audio industry's various formats. They seem endless and all have different characteristics that make it so confusing to choose. Thanks for that link. I'll definitely check it out!

Glad to help decipher if you need....but there aren't that many formats, altho some are connection type limited. The sound modes within an avr are a different matter, and definitely more variations there.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

I just checked out the link. Looks like some excellent info.

I got my Covid booster yesterday and have been flat on my back all day. Going to toddle off to bed. I'll read more tomorrow. I owe you big time, lovinthehd!

 

[lovinthehd]

I just checked out the link. Looks like some excellent info.

I got my Covid booster yesterday and have been flat on my back all day. Going to toddle off to bed. I'll read more tomorrow. I owe you big time, lovinthehd!

I've heard that a few times about the booster, haven't got mine setup yet....been procrastinating

 

[Lee Batchelor]

My first and second shots produced similar side effects. I'm one of those, who after receiving a shot, must be prepared to just put my feet up with Netflix for a day or two and let those little antibodies get churned out. Apparently, when you get a strong side effect from the shots, it's proof the shot is working and that you didn't receive normal saline instead .

I'm back on my pins today and will recalibrate the system. As per your idea, I'll run the Yamaha amp volume to nearly full during the calibration. On these older Denon amps, the calibration measurement is done in 6 places and is painfully slow! The CPUs in those amps were probably taken from surplus Commodore Pets ! I looked into a new Denon a few months ago but their prices scared me away at nearly $3,000 Canadian.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

Okay, I was reading the article on the batpigworld.com link you posted. It reads,

• • EXT.IN SUBWOOFER LEVEL: This setting applies ONLY to the multichannel analog inputs. If you have an external device (like an SACD player or a Blu Ray Player) that is connected with multichannel analog cables, this setting ensures that the LFE channel gets the appropriate level boost. If you are not using the multichannel analog inputs (labeled "EXT IN") then this setting is totally meaningless and you can ignore it!! Note that this setting will not even exist on many newer models that have done away with the multichannel analog inputs.

This confuses me. This is where I have been playing with the +10dB and +15dB settings. I'm using two sources: a Bell Fibe PVR and a Sony DVD player. Both are connected via HDMI ports. These are digital connections and he's saying that this setting only affects analog signals, and yet, I am hearing more bass at +15dB. How can that be?

 

[lovinthehd]

Okay, I was reading the article on the batpigworld.com link you posted. It reads,

• • EXT.IN SUBWOOFER LEVEL: This setting applies ONLY to the multichannel analog inputs. If you have an external device (like an SACD player or a Blu Ray Player) that is connected with multichannel analog cables, this setting ensures that the LFE channel gets the appropriate level boost. If you are not using the multichannel analog inputs (labeled "EXT IN") then this setting is totally meaningless and you can ignore it!! Note that this setting will not even exist on many newer models that have done away with the multichannel analog inputs.

This confuses me. This is where I have been playing with the +10dB and +15dB settings. I'm using two sources: a Bell Fibe PVR and a Sony DVD player. Both are connected via HDMI ports. These are digital connections and he's saying that this setting only affects analog signals, and yet, I am hearing more bass at +15dB. How can that be?

I thought you meant you were doing that in the Yamaha amp, no wonder. Yeah that's for older gear with analog only output, and the ext.in provide limited dsp too.

FWIW the LFE channel gets another 10dB THX reference levels....with modern players like it says that level is adjusted automatically from the calibration. Still, many do like to bump sub level up a bit at the end.

Let us know the resulting sub trim levels after raising the gains in the Yamaha amp.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

Let us know the resulting sub trim levels after raising the gains in the Yamaha amp.

Will do, thanks! It's starting to sound like my manual setup has been a failure. Like you said, use the Audyssey calibration first, and then tweak from there in small amounts.

 

[lovinthehd]

Audyssey does a decent job of basic setup, so it's a good starting place.....annoying to run I know. It didn't get particularly faster on the new units....and when you add more channels that just slows it down even more

 

[Lee Batchelor]

I'm about to start the recalibration. I'll do a factory reset on the Denon first. I had used parametric EQ settings on the Yamaha to account for room response in the sub. To do that, I used REW software with a Behringer mic. I'll set the Yamaha to flat. I can re-measure after.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

Calibration is running as I type this note. When it swept the sub with the Yamaha about 95% full power, there was very little sound from the sub; almost like a gentle low frequency knock! It seems my match between the Denon and Yamaha is out of whack.

Another point - I always used to manually override the Distance settings. These settings aren't really about feet or meters. They are about time alignment and you only alter the feet measurement if you really know what you're doing. This is not specified in the Denon literature. This is totally unacceptable!

I am a technical writer and technical writing instructor at Humber College in Toronto. For a company that produces such an excellent product as Denon, and then to offer up such deplorable documentation is criminal. They rely on third party documentation for clarity. They need to fix that .

 

[lovinthehd]

There's a few things about Audyssey documentation that lack in the avr manual, agree they should mention the possibilities of delay inherent in the sub. Supplemental info is out there, can take a while to dig thru it, tho. IIRC their advice on mic location isn't all that great in some manuals either. You can always get a mic/software and really analyze what's going on, too. The tones I don't think are particularly loud for subs....more interesting to see ending trim....

 

[Lee Batchelor]

Results are in...

The only thing I needed to adjust was the sub volume output level on the Denon. It seems there's plenty there now at about 45% volume on the Yamaha knob. (Otherwise, the wife will start writing up the divorce papers .) I also restored the room response curve that was stored in the Yamaha. There's tons of bass now and no clipping so far. The Denon software set the level at +15dB. I assume that's in case I connected an analog signal?

The volume balance is far better between channels, since I didn't monkey with the Distance measurements. I wish that had been pointed out in the documentation! For a signal source I'm listening to Netflix. It seems less compressed than regular Bell Fibe. I have the second best package from Netflix.

For the Denon EQ, I selected Audyessy Flat. It was the only option available.

One confusing point is the sound fields when playing the Netflix signal. There are only two available: Dolby PLII Cinema and DTS Neo: 6 Cinema. Can I assume that the incoming signal is being read by the Denon and those are the only two possible decoding formats for that particular signal? Of course, there are also Stereo and a host of other cheesy effects like Jazz Club, Rock Arena...all of which I never use.

Any further comments are welcome. If I take anymore of your time, you'll need to send me a bill !

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't understand why you're needing to reduce the gain on the Yamaha? If Audyssey/avr set your sub trim level in the avr to +15 that would mean you're not getting enough gain on the Yamaha, let alone reducing it....

Audyssey Reference/Movie wasn't an option? I think on your model that was an alternative at least.

The sound modes are upmixing what signal? I usually only use those for 2ch sources myself. What is the Netflix supposed to be? Dolby Digital + is what I get on Netflix....doesn't appear to be able to be processed by your avr from a glance at your manual. It might let you have Dolby Digital (and those sound modes would probably work fine with Dolby Digital, but if Dolby Digital isn't one of the choices for sound mode I suspect that is just a 2ch signal)....what does the audio say on the Netflix app? What do you play Netflix with?

 

[lovinthehd]

Wait, so you set the subwoofer level in manual setup to +15? IIRC the range is only -12 to +12.....

 

[Lee Batchelor]

I don't understand why you're needing to reduce the gain on the Yamaha? If Audyssey/avr set your sub trim level in the avr to +15 that would mean you're not getting enough gain on the Yamaha, let alone reducing it....

Correct. I set it back and the sub sounds great now.

Audyssey Reference/Movie wasn't an option? I think on your model that was an alternative at least.

I've never seen that option in my Denon menu.

You're correct about Netflix. The two options I mentioned earlier are the only choices I have and they sound fine. I’m not sure what Netflix broadcasts. Couldn’t find that anywhere.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

All things considered, the system sounds much better. There's more distinction between the channels, probably thanks to the baseline Audyssey settings. I went in and switched off the Audyssey tool and went to Manual, and then tweaked the center channel from 2K to 8k (or there about) to add some highlights to the dialog.

Wish you could come and give a listen. I'm running a very odd setup. I bought a pair of Altec Lansing A7-800 kits back in 1974. They have the 811B horn and cross over at 800 Hz. If you know anything about these vintage speakers, they looked like this.

I don't think there are many people out there still using them for L/R channels. I placed the drivers in the Valencia cabinet of the day. They looked like these. I made my own version with the exact same dimensions.

I had the tweeters redone at Great Plains Audio about 10 years ago. I couldn't find a comparable center channel speaker to match the Altec speaker characteristics, so I built one using a 6 inch Eminence bass driver and an RCF horn. I also designed and built the sub from a 12 inch Lab 12 Eminence driver. Nearfield sweeps on the center channel and sub showed pretty good linearity.

Thanks again for all the help! Send me the bill. Merry Christmas too!

 

[lovinthehd]

All things considered, the system sounds much better. There's more distinction between the channels, probably thanks to the baseline Audyssey settings. I went in and switched off the Audyssey tool and went to Manual, and then tweaked the center channel from 2K to 8k (or there about) to add some highlights to the dialog.

Wish you could come and give a listen. I'm running a very odd setup. I bought a pair of Altec Lansing A7-800 kits back in 1974. They have the 811B horn and cross over at 800 Hz. If you know anything about these vintage speakers, they looked like this.
View attachment 52585
I don't think there are many people out there still using them for L/R channels. I placed the drivers in the Valencia cabinet of the day. They looked like these. I made my own version with the exact same dimensions.
View attachment 52586

I had the tweeters redone at Great Plains Audio about 10 years ago. I couldn't find a comparable center channel speaker to match the Altec speaker characteristics, so I built one using a 6 inch Eminence bass driver and an RCF horn. I also designed and built the sub from a 12 inch Lab 12 Eminence driver. Nearfield sweeps on the center channel and sub showed pretty good linearity.

Thanks again for all the help! Send me the bill. Merry Christmas too!

LOL happy holidaze....but I'm still mystified by what you're setting there in the trim levels/gain....but if it works for ya, it works but I think we're still not talking about the same things somehow. Cool old speakers! Love to listen but you're a bit far away....

 

[Lee Batchelor]

I'm probably running the similar settings I was before recalibration, with the exception that the Audyssey software cleaned up a lot of peripheral stuff like speaker distances and other things.

Yes, I'm still enjoying my vintage gear, despite its age. My dad owned an audio store back then and had an Altec dealership. That's how I got those speakers so cheap.

I'm east of Toronto by about 100 km. Where are you?

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm probably running the similar settings I was before recalibration, with the exception that the Audyssey software cleaned up a lot of peripheral stuff like speaker distances and other things.

Yes, I'm still enjoying my vintage gear, despite its age. My dad owned an audio store back then and had an Altec dealership. That's how I got those speakers so cheap.

I'm east of Toronto by about 100 km. Where are you?

My grandfather was an EE and pro sound guy, I imagine he was familiar with your speakers, too. I'm only about 2100 miles to the west of you in Oregon.

 

[Lee Batchelor]

Yes, those Altec speakers would be his vintage. He'd know all about them. I see we're in different time zones too.

I found this on the net. It would probably solve the mismatch issue.

USB MATCHBOX II » Henry Engineering