Clean tight and accurate under $1K recommendations please

[Irishman]

No, you missed the point.

He has to offload the electrostatic panels at a much higher than usual frequency in order to gain spl. Not only that his subs have to operate an octave above crossover. Unless he puts his sun close to the mains, his subs will be easy to localize. Not only that, they will not do an adequate job of reinforcing the panels where they need it.

In fact I will be honest, I actually disagree with the wisdom of moving subs away from mains. I say this, as I firmly believe a truly full range speaker without subs is a desirable luxury. That is what I have designed and do not use subs in my main system. Despite that a have huge spl to 20 Hz and can shake the floor, your but you name it. At the same time the bass is perfectly controlled and devoid of boom and coloration. Not the least of the advantages, is that larger drivers can truly off load smaller drivers by handling the step loss compensation. There are true advantages to having larger drivers operate well above usual sub range.

I firmly believe that a system reliant on subs for deep bass is actually second best.

If there are full-range (20-20,000 Hz) loudspeakers in the OPs stated budget, I'd love to know about it!

Secondly, what is your opinion on room treatments?

 

[Sheep]

No, you missed the point.

He has to offload the electrostatic panels at a much higher than usual frequency in order to gain spl. Not only that his subs have to operate an octave above crossover. Unless he puts his sun close to the mains, his subs will be easy to localize. Not only that, they will not do an adequate job of reinforcing the panels where they need it.

In fact I will be honest, I actually disagree with the wisdom of moving subs away from mains. I say this, as I firmly believe a truly full range speaker without subs is a desirable luxury. That is what I have designed and do not use subs in my main system. Despite that a have huge spl to 20 Hz and can shake the floor, your but you name it. At the same time the bass is perfectly controlled and devoid of boom and coloration. Not the least of the advantages, is that larger drivers can truly off load smaller drivers by handling the step loss compensation. There are true advantages to having larger drivers operate well above usual sub range.

I firmly believe that a system reliant on subs for deep bass is actually second best.

The problem would be seat to seat variation in response, with cancellation causing a lot of peaks and valleys between different listening locations. If you're talking about pleasing just one person that's fine, but if you have a couple seats that want a nice response then you're potentially looking at problems. There was an article not long ago showing different subwoofer locations and the output variations between different setups, worth a look if you're trying to get your setup dailed in as best as possible with a subwoofer (or 2 or 4). Room treatment is an option, but properly placed subwoofers is the first thing you should do before choosing a different subwoofer. A good sub in a bad spot is still going to sound bad.

SheepStar

 

[Acoustat]

At this point, the new Rythmik F15HP, blends seamlessly with the panels. You don't know
that a sub is being utilized, per TLS guys hopes...
but I have a lot of homework to do yet. With a single sub, yes there's some localization
but cancellation is my biggest concern ATM. It is hugely beneficial, to be able to play
Kitaro's God of Thunder, without my panels discharging

 

[Acoustat]

If there are full-range (20-20,000 Hz) loudspeakers in the OPs stated budget, I'd love to know about it!

That may be a legitimate question, but unless I'm misunderstanding your question…
full range loud speakers have nothing to do with the OP. I feel like I missed something here, sorry.
I do indeed already have full range mains outside that budget, that sported a lifetime warranty.

 

[Irishman]

That may be a legitimate question, but unless I'm misunderstanding your question…
full range loud speakers have nothing to do with the OP. I feel like I missed something here, sorry.
I do indeed already have full range mains outside that budget, that sported a lifetime warranty.

I can see how my post could be confusing to a reader.

What I was replying to was TLSGuy's comments about thinking contrary to conventional wisdom when it comes to offloading LFE production to a subwoofer.

Without a subwoofer, it would mean any recommendation that could hope to equal a subwoofer-equipped system would necessarily need to be full-range in the mains (20hz to 20,000hz). By expressing my incredulity about such solutions within the OPs stated budget, I was giving TLSGuy an opening in the discussion to hopefully inform us of developments in systems that would provide true full-range performance in mains within the OPs budget.

Hopefully, I've made that a bit clearer.

 

[Acoustat]

I can see how my post could be confusing to a reader.

What I was replying to was TLSGuy's comments about thinking contrary to conventional wisdom when it comes to offloading LFE production to a subwoofer.

Without a subwoofer, it would mean any recommendation that could hope to equal a subwoofer-equipped system would necessarily need to be full-range in the mains (20hz to 20,000hz). By expressing my incredulity about such solutions within the OPs stated budget, I was giving TLSGuy an opening in the discussion to hopefully inform us of developments in systems that would provide true full-range performance in mains within the OPs budget.

Hopefully, I've made that a bit clearer.

as a bell LOL yes, thanx for that clarification.

Though my mains are full range, they really needed help with bass kick well within their FR limits.
We have a score now, and I have one more location to try the sub at which should help.

One nice point I should make with my ESLs is the bottom of the three ~46" tall panels in each speaker
is above, the top of the subwoofers driver. Do you all think this would help prevent some cancelation?

 

[Acoustat]

Yeh BABY! I got The Conjuring for Christmas. One of my favourite movies with a strong
storyline, based on a true story at that, but the LFE 2 thumbs up
It's the 1st DVD or BR disk I've played with the sub…love it.

Only a single is needed for LFE, but for music, uh, 2 would work better I think.

 

[KEW]

Only a single is needed for LFE, but for music, uh, 2 would work better I think.

I'm glad the LFE delivered to your expectations!
So how soon do you expect to add number two?

I'm hoping you will find yourself listening to music on this system more than you anticipated because you've got an excellent setup!

 

[Acoustat]

I'm glad the LFE delivered to your expectations!
So how soon do you expect to add number two?

I'm hoping you will find yourself listening to music on this system more than you anticipated because you've got an excellent setup!

Aw thanks man! We will celebrate Christmas with the Sis in law New Years day due to illness, and expect to see a Pink Floyd BRD or2.

I no longer have to turn the sound up to "80%" I forget the -db setting. Adding the surrounds and centre which are
a much higher sensitivity than the mains, made all the difference. Playing BRD, @ 70% is gobs. Very appreciable volume.
So the ML speakers were the turning point in SPL from the AVR. Running just the mains and amp off the AVRs pre-out
required much more voltage for just 2 ch to get the desired SPL.

There is no timeline on a second sub. I can run 2ch with the mains and be very happy.
I do not know how to run just the sub + mains only without reconfiguration of the AVR
or disconnecting centre and surrounds, or running from the ESLs out to sub "active high level outs"
to the sub. These are the only 3 ways I know to accomplish 2, wait, what about amp assign in the AVR
currently set to 9.1 to run pre outs? Is there a way to assign differently for 2.1 temporarily, switching back?
I'll go check that.

 

[KEW]

You can definitely configure to switch to 2.1 stereo and back.
I'll need to get home this afternoon and check receiver to get specific.

 

[KEW]

I can't be sure of what happens without having the same setup, but try this:

SETUP > SPEAKERS > MANUAL SETUP > 2 CH PLAYBACK:
Set:
Front to Small
Subwoofer to Yes
SW Mode to LFE

 

[Acoustat]

I can't be sure of what happens without having the same setup, but try this:

SETUP > SPEAKERS > MANUAL SETUP > 2 CH PLAYBACK:
Set:
Front to Small
Subwoofer to Yes
SW Mode to LFE

I haven't done this yet, just in from work, but, I'm not using LFE input, rather Line In.
Thanks for the helps

 

[KEW]

Those settings are for the receiver.
I think there may be a little back and forth communication through HDMI cables, but I can assure you that your sub has no idea that the receiver is set as LFE and the receiver has no idea that the sub is connected as line-in.
Don't ask, don't tell!

 

[KEW]

I'm certain that you can have it setup so the green and red buttons labeled "Movie" and "Music" will switch between your HT setup and the Stereo setup.
I only have two speakers hooked up right now so I don't have the option to do anything but Stereo (with subs). It is a sophisticated system, but I do miss being able to trick it!

 

[Acoustat]

I'm certain that you can have it setup so the green and red buttons labeled "Movie" and "Music" will switch between your HT setup and the Stereo setup.
I only have two speakers hooked up right now so I don't have the option to do anything but Stereo (with subs). It is a sophisticated system, but I do miss being able to trick it!

I do frequently use the multi ch st for satellite radio, especially Zen music. Why have nice tower speakers for surrounds
if you don't utilize them as they were selected…musically
Yes there is a lot of sophistication involved, a week point of many systems, is the amount of sophistication involved
but as they tweak their technology, some of it sticks, for good results, like Audyssey. Then look at the auto industry…
air bags, computers, acceleration, breaks...lost lives.
I hear many of todays electronics don't make 10 years of service in this hobby, and here I am using mostly 25+ yr old components.
I miss being able to tune up an engine. Heck, my new Tundra has no dip stick for the transmission. It's checked on a computer

So I've relied heavily on folks like yourself, who've an understanding of some of this new age of sound reproduction.
BTW I have 2 bad HDMI cables 2 yrs old. My tv keeps going out on me, the last tv was replaced a couple months ago
at the 2yr old mark. I really believe, it is the increased, sophistication involved.