Choose: Krell Showcase 7 or Conrad Johnson MF5600

[everettT]

Sorry everyone I am reposting my original question because this conversation is way off track:

So here is my dilemma. I can now afford a used but wonderful amp, either a:

1. Krell Showcase 7
2. Conrad Johnson MF5600

Both are recapped and in fine working condition. In fact the Krell Showcase 7's caps have been significantly upgraded, and I believe much better sonically than the original and the CJ has new caps as well but similar to the original. Of course the Krell is a 7 channel while the CJ is only a 5 channel but that is okay. Both sound delicious. (don't care about 5 or 7 channel, price, cosmetics... just care about the sound)

My question is this:
For pure audio bliss (transparency, control and soundstage...) which would be the preferred unit to listen to?

Without knowing what you are paying, you're buying a name to me. If the Krell is $800 and in perfect working order, cool but hard to know. Well designed amps should not do anything except amplify the signal. If it can with out clipping get any amp you want. They dont have "soundstages" .

 

[everettT]

Did I miss what speakers? Just to clarify that they are not in fact highly reactive loads?

 

[John Parks]

But it doesn't sound great, it's only sonically acceptable. The Krell and CJ sound wonderful but different.

I think you'll find the (vocal) majority on this particular site are of the "all amps sound the same if performing within their specs" school of thought and, based on the answers provided so far, you won't get much imput other than "all amps are the same" or "buy ATI".

FWIW, I would go with the Krell.

 

[ryanosaur]

Until such a time I can A/B compare my current Outlaw 2200s against some Hypex NC400s, I think all this talk about Amps: having unique sound signatures, being delicious, being chocolatey, being liquidy, being crisp, whatever... is bordering on the ridiculous.
One very talented Speaker Designer and musician has said, too, that exotic capacitors don't have a sound signature, either, and this has been echoed by many.
I know, there is the other school that insists that because a Cap is impregnated with Gold-Oil, or cost $150+ each, that it is magically better... and these are usually the same people who insist that speaker cables like AudioQuest or Kimber make a difference, or that you have to "cook" your speaker cables and listen for 100-200 hours to break in your speakers, or that Amps make a difference, or that cable risers make a difference...

Should I keep going?

Clearly you are suffering from a First-World, 21st Century problem: Amp Decision Paralysis and a case of Upgraditis. Only you can solve it for yourself. It is your system and your ducats.

If you want to post reputable third-party bench tests and discuss the results and the audibility of any noise in the signal, I think many here would gladly engage much more freely.

 

[ryanosaur]

Did I miss what speakers? Just to clarify that they are not in fact highly reactive loads?

Post 6

Already bought Wilson Audio Sophia's (Series 1) about 20 years ago. Not upgrading these for a long time.

 

[everettT]

Until such a time I can A/B compare my current Outlaw 2200s against some Hypex NC400s, I think all this talk about Amps: having unique sound signatures, being delicious, being chocolatey, being liquidy, being crisp, whatever... is bordering on the ridiculous.
One very talented Speaker Designer and musician has said, too, that exotic capacitors don't have a sound signature, either, and this has been echoed by many.
I know, there is the other school that insists that because a Cap is impregnated with Gold-Oil, or cost $150+ each, that it is magically better... and these are usually the same people who insist that speaker cables like AudioQuest or Kimber make a difference, or that you have to "cook" your speaker cables and listen for 100-200 hours to break in your speakers, or that Amps make a difference, or that cable risers make a difference...

Should I keep going?

Clearly you are suffering from a First-World, 21st Century problem: Amp Decision Paralysis and a case of Upgraditis. Only you can solve it for yourself. It is your system and your ducats.

If you want to post reputable third-party bench tests and discuss the results and the audibility of any noise in the signal, I think many here would gladly engage much more freely.

My amp to speaker ratio for the Salks is 8%.

 

[everettT]

Post 6

So the name matters then. Go for the krell then.

A certain well know DIY guy designed one of Wilson's offerings around 2016 IIRC, which ever year they used Satori drivers .

 

[everettT]

So it looks like the midrange has some low impedance, but not hard to drive, in lower range. Unless pushing them hard, it shouldn't be an issue for most amps as far as I can tell.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Mesonto, don't get hung-up with audiophile jargon such as 'bliss'. It's all in your mind. You can't hear the difference.

Keep the Emotiva. It 'sounds' just fine.

 

[Mesonto]

Sonically how? You did a blind level matched dbx comparison with your own speakers? Or it was just obvious in a sighted unmatched test with other speakers? Good luck with that. Most of us don't get too excited by amps....maybe @RichB or @Mikado463. Hard to know what either amp's performance is now that they've had "audiophile" cap tweaks performed now and may be out of spec.

....repeating the question won't change it.

Please stop hijacking the thread... I just want people who are knowledgeable about the units described to answer if possible. (but for your curiosity and for the last time yes it was a blind (done by the Krell owner) A/B test with watt puppy speakers which are the step up from mine, the dbs were very close -- and even if you are not I am excited about the amp purchase I will make, which are both still in spec but just higher rated capacitors) Thank you.

 

[lovinthehd]

How can I hijack a thread? I'm simply commenting on it. If you don't like my comments don't read them.

FWIW a single blind with only "close dBs" (assume you mean level matching) isn't worth much.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

See Mesonto? Even panthers love Emotiva. Forget the expensive name brands.

 

[Mikado463]

Speakers are the only thing really sonically acceptable to me. If an amp is linear and can drive the reactive load, I'm all good.

remember, not all speakers present a reactive load, stats provide a capacitive one which 'can' have an effect on a given 'amp' that a reactive speaker would not present.

 

[Mikado463]

Sorry everyone I am reposting my original question because this conversation is way off track:

So here is my dilemma. I can now afford a used but wonderful amp, either a:

1. Krell Showcase 7
2. Conrad Johnson MF5600

Both are recapped and in fine working condition. In fact the Krell Showcase 7's caps have been significantly upgraded, and I believe much better sonically than the original and the CJ has new caps as well but similar to the original. Of course the Krell is a 7 channel while the CJ is only a 5 channel but that is okay. Both sound delicious. (don't care about 5 or 7 channel, price, cosmetics... just care about the sound)

My question is this:
For pure audio bliss (transparency, control and soundstage...) which would be the preferred unit to listen to?

Allow me to give you a wee bit of advice, questions like you asked here will, as you've seen, be met with critical skepticism, much of which is in line. You would probably be better off asking your question over on the 'other' forum sites.

FWIW I have no experience with either unit but enjoyed my little PV9 preamp back in the day !

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

btw: found their measurement here:

SoundStage! Measurements - Wilson Audio Sophia Loudspeakers (12/2001)

Not very impressive at all.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

My question is this:
For pure audio bliss (transparency, control and soundstage...) which would be the preferred unit to listen to?

Soundstage is the purview of the room, speakers and how it is located in that room, not in the amp. Also, perhaps, how the source was recorded.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Not very impressive at all.

Well, I don't disagree with you. I'd definitely expect a much different result from 12k/pair speakers. I didn't add my option as I just wanted OP to make his own conclusions

 

[Mesonto]

I think you'll find the (vocal) majority on this particular site are of the "all amps sound the same if performing within their specs" school of thought and, based on the answers provided so far, you won't get much imput other than "all amps are the same" or "buy ATI".

FWIW, I would go with the Krell.

Yes, I have unfortunately found that out... because I wasn't getting an answer, I decided to post on another forum and I have been getting some good feedback.

Ironically, although they sound different, but both sound great, I think I will be going with the Krell since itt provides an 2 extra channels.

On a side note, I am going to followup with the suggestion of listening to the Salk speakers and maybe thinking about a future purchase.

 

[lovinthehd]

There's always Audiogon forums

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Already bought Wilson Audio Sophia's (Series 1) about 20 years ago. Not upgrading these for a long time.

In that case, I gotta go with Krell.

I mean "Krell" just rolls of the tongue so smoothly with "Sophia". So sexy.