Car Subwoofer general question

B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
I'm sorry. I realize this forum is for home audio, but surely we have some folks who know about car audio and I really don't wanna join yet another forum to ask a simple question

I just installed a sub in my son's truck. I used an old Kicker zx300.1 mono amp and we're pushing a single, old Rockford Fosgate P1 10 inch sub single coil. Sounds good. The amp is very basic, no frills. Has a bass boost switch and gain control. That's about it. Here is my question...

Is sound and "hit" in car audio more about the sub or the amp? Lets say we wanted to upgrade his sub from this old P1 to a newer P2...would we tell any difference in how the subwoofer performs while using the same Kicker amp we already have in place? Based on what I'm reading it doesn't seem upgrading subwoofer speakers is like upgrading full range or even 2 way speakers.
 
P

Push

Audioholic
Is sound and "hit" in car audio more about the sub or the amp? Lets say we wanted to upgrade his sub from this old P1 to a newer P2...would we tell any difference in how the subwoofer performs while using the same Kicker amp we already have in place? Based on what I'm reading it doesn't seem upgrading subwoofer speakers is like upgrading full range or even 2 way speakers.
Is "Yes" a clear enough answer? :)

Having said that, good bass is mostly in the speaker, however, If you are underpowering your sub, it won't push like you want it to. Make sure the amp is providing enough clean power, and if you don't have enough bass, upgrade to a bigger sub, or add another one.

And be careful with "upgrading" to a newer version. Many of the formerly great car audio powerhouses are making cheap junk these days. Having said that, I doubt you'll hear much difference between a P1 and P2, unless you step up a size or two.
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
Is "Yes" a clear enough answer? :)

Having said that, good bass is mostly in the speaker, however, If you are underpowering your sub, it won't push like you want it to. Make sure the amp is providing enough clean power, and if you don't have enough bass, upgrade to a bigger sub, or add another one.

And be careful with "upgrading" to a newer version. Many of the formerly great car audio powerhouses are making cheap junk these days. Having said that, I doubt you'll hear much difference between a P1 and P2, unless you step up a size or two.
I appreciate the response. Also, I didn't realize till just a little while ago, but this amp is a 2ohm amp and my subwoofer is 4ohm which means we're getting about half the power. I suspect switching to a 2ohm sub (or dual voice 4ohm wired to 2ohm) will make a big difference.
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
You are correct in your assumption about the amplifier operating at 4 ohms. Getting a woofer to match the proper impedance for max output on the amp will help.

One thing I noticed in my time in Car Audio, is that many times the enclosures that came with woofers were not properly matched to the woofer. Often times they were way too small or tuned way too high. While cabin gain/transfer function is a very real thing, EVERY car is different there. Meaning a Honda civic will have a significantly different response than a Suburban.

In general if going sealed, build the enclosure to a final QTC of <=1.0. If going vented, I would tune as low as space (in vehicle) will allow, mainly to protect the woofer, especially with bass heavy music.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What truck and where in the truck did you place the sub? I use a 10" infinity R-1070 in an appropriate sealed box in my 15 psgr van with a Fosgate R500X1D amp setup at 2 ohm....more than I need but not trying particularly to set records or anything. A doubling of power in the amp would just gain you about 3dB, or perhaps using a sub with 3dB more sensitivity would use your current amp better....just don't know how much of a basshead you guys might be, either :)
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
We're not bass enthusiasts really. My son listens to all kinds of music. But we do like some bottom end in whatever we're listening to.

His truck is an '05 Tahoe. We're using a sealed enclosure with a CF space of 1.5. We have it in the very rear facing rearward towards the hatch.

Like I said, it sounds pretty good. I just wasn't sure that upgrading subs would change the sound. Like going from a single voice to dual voice coil. I didn't know if that would change the sound any. I know it gives you more wiring options. I was really just curious. I also realize having a matched 2ohm sub is only worth 3db, so I'm not sure that would even be something we would consider "if" we even wanted to start upgrading stuff. I think for now at least, he's very happy. Switching from the factory HU and upgrading to the Pioneer made a huge improvement by itself. Just simply plugging the new HU in made the factory Bose system sound so much better and stronger. I was actually very surprised by it.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
We're not bass enthusiasts really. My son listens to all kinds of music. But we do like some bottom end in whatever we're listening to.

His truck is an '05 Tahoe. We're using a sealed enclosure with a CF space of 1.5. We have it in the very rear facing rearward towards the hatch.

Like I said, it sounds pretty good. I just wasn't sure that upgrading subs would change the sound. Like going from a single voice to dual voice coil. I didn't know if that would change the sound any. I know it gives you more wiring options. I was really just curious. I also realize having a matched 2ohm sub is only worth 3db, so I'm not sure that would even be something we would consider "if" we even wanted to start upgrading stuff. I think for now at least, he's very happy. Switching from the factory HU and upgrading to the Pioneer made a huge improvement by itself. Just simply plugging the new HU in made the factory Bose system sound so much better and stronger. I was actually very surprised by it.
I've got some dual voice coil subs and have wired them differently for different amp situations, but wouldn't call that an audible difference particularly. So you plugged a different sub into an existing Bose system.....no change in eq/crossovers etc I assume (that wasn't particularly user adjustable in the Bose auto systems I've had) ?
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
I've got some dual voice coil subs and have wired them differently for different amp situations, but wouldn't call that an audible difference particularly. So you plugged a different sub into an existing Bose system.....no change in eq/crossovers etc I assume (that wasn't particularly user adjustable in the Bose auto systems I've had) ?
No...we kept all the Bose stuff (center console subwoofer as well). We ran RCAs via our new Pioneer HU to a separate mono amp to push a separate 10 inch sub. We didn't touch the Bose amp. We use the Pioneer HU EQ
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
No...we kept all the Bose stuff (center console subwoofer as well). We ran RCAs via our new Pioneer HU to a separate mono amp to push a separate 10 inch sub. We didn't touch the Bose amp. We use the Pioneer HU EQ
How do these two systems work together particularly? Which Pioneer HU?
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
How do these two systems work together particularly? Which Pioneer HU?
We went with the Pioneer single din MVH-S522bs. We wanted to retain steering wheel controls and we wanted to keep door chime as well so we also got the PAC RP5-GM11. I paid the extra $25 for Crutchfield's ready harness. They literally took the products I bought and spliced everything together for me. When the package came to my house I had a separate bag with the PAC and the Pioneer harness all wired up. I literally plugged in like 3 connectors and voila. The Bose amp gets its power from the pink wire (If I recall) and it gets its turn on signal from the blue/ white coming out of the HU (or maybe the PAC). When we ran the separate amp we tapped into the blue/ white wire coming out of the HU harness to get our amp turn on signal as well. Everything works as it should.

I read a lot of stuff to have a good understanding of what was needed and I had intended to do the wiring myself, but heard good things about their ready harness and thought $25 wasn't bad if it truly is plug and play. And in our case, it was. Money well spent IMO
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
So the master control of everything is thru the Pioneer head unit, it acts as pre-amp for everything while the Bose system acts only as amp/speaker set?
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
So the master control of everything is thru the Pioneer head unit, it acts as pre-amp for everything while the Bose system acts only as amp/speaker set?
Absolutely. We have zero interaction with the Bose amp. Everything is done via the HU and of course we have way more adjustability now as well instead of just high mid low fade balance.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
What are your crossover settings? Do you get control over individual speakers/bass module with the Bose system? Or is that treated as a whole as speakers' hpf?
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
What are your crossover settings? Do you get control over individual speakers/bass module with the Bose system? Or is that treated as a whole as speakers' hpf?
You can. You can do it via the HU menu or the app. Its obviously easier with the app because it gives you a visual versus "push volume knob, then roll to the right blah blah". I believe I set all door speakers and sub at 80hz (no clue if that's best or not). You can also set listening position to influence more sound near your position and you can manipulate DB at each speaker as well as the subwoofer.

The app is called Pioneer smart sync. Seems to work pretty well, but if you have it open, it tries to take over whatever source you're using. Say you're using Pandora via BT, but you open the Pioneer app to make a sound adjustment. Well suddenly you're using Pandora, but within the Pioneer app which I don't really care for.
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
On a different note...can someone tell me what I should set the crossover at for full range speakers and sub? I currently have the factory Bose speakers and our separate subwoofer set 80hz. Is this best? I'd honestly like for the door speakers, A pillar tweeters and factory Bose sub (under center console) to handle our mids and highs and send our bottom end to our 10 inch RF P1. But I don't know if I'm setting the crossover correctly to achieve this
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
On a different note...can someone tell me what I should set the crossover at for full range speakers and sub? I currently have the factory Bose speakers and our separate subwoofer set 80hz. Is this best? I'd honestly like for the door speakers, A pillar tweeters and factory Bose sub (under center console) to handle our mids and highs and send our bottom end to our 10 inch RF P1. But I don't know if I'm setting the crossover correctly to achieve this
What full range speakers do you have in a car? I'd consider 80 a good crossover starting point in any case, then experiment with 60 or 100 and see if any appreciable difference (or can you measure?). Not sure still how the Pioneer HU manages the Bose system....hard to imagine them cooperating much.
 
B

blk00ss

Audioholic Intern
What full range speakers do you have in a car? I'd consider 80 a good crossover starting point in any case, then experiment with 60 or 100 and see if any appreciable difference (or can you measure?). Not sure still how the Pioneer HU manages the Bose system....hard to imagine them cooperating much.
Its just the factory Bose speakers. We didn't change any door speakers nor A pillar tweeters.

As far as cooperating much...what are you referring to? There are quite a few videos as well as forum posts about people being able to work with the factory Bose system, or even bypass it (if you wanted). Granted, early on it confused lots of people, but there has been plenty of people who have worked it out while keeping Bose with no issues. We kept door chime, steering wheel controls, On star etc, and we're able to manipulate the EQ for each speaker with noticeable change. We're literally functioning the same as we were were before removing the factory (trash) AC delco head unit. Many people have done the same
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Its just the factory Bose speakers. We didn't change any door speakers nor A pillar tweeters.

As far as cooperating much...what are you referring to? There are quite a few videos as well as forum posts about people being able to work with the factory Bose system, or even bypass it (if you wanted). Granted, early on it confused lots of people, but there has been plenty of people who have worked it out while keeping Bose with no issues. We kept door chime, steering wheel controls, On star etc, and we're able to manipulate the EQ for each speaker with noticeable change. We're literally functioning the same as we were were before removing the factory (trash) AC delco head unit. Many people have done the same
Glad to hear, just wouldn't expect such cooperation from Bose gear in terms of working with Pioneer's....when I looked into it in one of my cars that had a Bose system, seemed I had to replace/use the Bose rather than substitute another head unit....but that was a while back. Current vehicle and head unit I have is quite simple and not hooked up to anything else but the amps/speakers :)
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top