Can you hear a difference in Sound between Audio Amplifiers?

[jinjuku]

Surely, but I don't take you as someone who believes two identical streams of 1's and 0's will take on a markedly different sound quality as a result of the cost of the A/D converters that created them.

In fairness its not all about the digital stage...

 

[Steve81]

In fairness its not all about the digital stage...

No, but you can still compare the 1's and 0's to see the final product. If they're identical or virtually so, well...

 

[jinjuku]

I think you're misunderstanding me a little. I'm think that for electronics measurements are all you need to fully characterize them. The problem is identifying and performance all of the measurements that prove all artifacts are inaudible. Frequency response, THD, and SNR don't seem to be enough.

There are more measurements than SNR/THD/SCT. Also I didn't measure, we listened.

No, but you can still compare the 1's and 0's to see the final product. If they're identical or virtually so, well...

That part I will give you ;-) Being that if the Analog portion is different your output will be a bit different.

 

[Irvrobinson]

That part I will give you ;-) Being that if the Analog portion is different your output will be a bit different.

On this point I completely agree, but we are discussing ADCs.

 

[jinjuku]

To bring it back around to amps. They can sound different in some scenarios. They can also sound different if designed purposefully to do so.

I want an amp that is linear, stable into reactive loads, low distortion and cross talk.

 

[auronihilist99]

To bring it back around to amps. They can sound different in some scenarios. They can also sound different if designed purposefully to do so.

There are a few militant audio objectivists out there that come to mind that would be having a fit with your last statement.

 

[jinjuku]

There are a few militant audio objectivists out there that come to mind that would be having a fit with your last statement.

I'm not sure what they would have to argue about. Tubes have measurable differences, SET amps, zero feedback amps.....

I'm in the least harm camp of audio. The only job any piece of equipment should be doing is the least amount of harm to the source material.

It's why my setup is about as minimal as it gets. It's also why I have had three enthusiasts with ~$20K plus systems picking their jaw up off the floor.

 

[auronihilist99]

Yes, I have been able to hear differences between a tube amp and a placebo ss amp in a blind test. Both amps were functioning properly. The differences were small but very distinct. Try telling that to a few radical objectivist overloads from other audio forums. They would have nothing to do with it. I'm both objectivist and subjectivist, at the end of the day we all are. How do you think we audition speakers and headphones? With a blindfold on? Not too many people do. I'm for saving money, that's all. I'm cheap. I'm seriously considering class D Pro amps and speakers and selling my class A/B separates. I'm considering the power amp you use jinjuku, the Crown XLS series. Good power and value per dollar.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd second the Crown, have had good success with the XLS (have four 1500s). Never even would bother with a tube amp, don't see any reason to even try one since I don't want to own one.

 

[Steve81]

Try telling that to a few radical objectivist overloads from other audio forums. They would have nothing to do with it.

Seems like those folks aren't being very objective in that case It's one thing to say that all "good" amps will sound similar when they aren't being over-driven. It's another ball of wax to say all amplifiers are good amplifiers, or to deny that a particularly difficult load may turn an otherwise good amplifier into a bad one.

 

[Alex2507]

It's another ball of wax to say all amplifiers are good amplifiers, or to deny that a particularly difficult load may turn an otherwise good amplifier into a bad one.

That's why we bi-wire ... duh.

 

[auronihilist99]

That's why we bi-wire ... duh.

Oh brother. Here we go. Popcorn time.

 

[GIEGAR]

Oh brother. Here we go. Popcorn time.

Settle... put down the popcorn. Alex is just joshing.

 

[jinjuku]

That's why we bi-wire ... duh.

Nah, that's why we go active.

 

[jinjuku]

That's why we bi-wire ... duh.

Nah, that's why we go active.

 

[jinjuku]

That's why we bi-wire ... duh.

Nah, that's why we go active.

 

[jinjuku]

That's why we bi-wire ... duh.

Nah, that's why we go active.

 

[jinjuku]

That's why we bi-wire ... duh.

Nah, that's why we go active.

 

[PENG]

I think you're misunderstanding me a little. I'm think that for electronics measurements are all you need to fully characterize them. The problem is identifying and performance all of the measurements that prove all artifacts are inaudible. Frequency response, THD, and SNR don't seem to be enough.

If you add damping factor, transient response, decay time, IMD, DR then it may be enough for all intents and purposes, but still may not eliminate the very subtle difference that can be heard but not confirmed in comparison tests because of reasons previously proposed by all..

 

[jinjuku]

If you add damping factor, transient response, decay time, IMD, DR then it may be enough for all intents and purposes, but still may not eliminate the very subtle difference that can be heard but not confirmed in comparison tests because of reasons previously proposed by all..

Nulling tests are quite effective and the efficacy is un-challenged as far as I know.

 

[PENG]

Nulling tests are quite effective and the efficacy is un-challenged as far as I know.

I think it is probably more practical to compare the output signals using a highly precise spectrum analyzer. I wish something like that can be done in a technical university such as the MIT. I am sure they have enough test instrument to do the job.

 

[jinjuku]

I think it is probably more practical to compare the output signals using a highly precise spectrum analyzer. I wish something like that can be done in a technical university such as the MIT. I am sure they have enough test instrument to do the job.

A nulling test is practical. It's common mode cancellation. Any thing different shows up as measurable spectra.

 

[PENG]

A nulling test is practical. It's common mode cancellation. Any thing different shows up as measurable spectra.

From what I read, for music waveforms it is not going to be easy. We may not be talking about the same thing though.

 

[jinjuku]

From what I read, for music waveforms it is not going to be easy. We may not be talking about the same thing though.

You can then use Audio DiffMaker....