Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

[Dude#1279435]

Ok. I didn’t know if you’d actually answer any of my questions. So you don’t want a conversation, just rhetoric. Good work.

Have you ever shot a gun?

Yes I have, and no I don't think it's a requirement to 'understanding' MGs. Jeez man.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yes I have, and no I don't think it's a requirement to 'understanding' MGs. Jeez man.

Well don’t you think it would add perspective?

 

[Trell]

Ah yes "sensible" is using a machine gun. It's a military weapon, and because your intent isn't equal to a killer, doesn't make it not dumb. The killer is the top of Mt Stupid; the regular gun owner using a machine gun is down on the lower valley of Mt Stupid. Please stop trying to justify a machine let alone the normalization of it compared to other more sensible guns. In that way, you could also say Ripleys combination of MG/grenade launcher/flame thrower is ok on the basis well I'm not trying to hurt anyone. Thankfully on the "new" production of MG the Feds banned them.

This is a thread for gun nuts and the resident misanthrope, which came apparent quite early. They want to have their guns (whatever type) and carry them everywhere with essentially no restrictions, and care nothing for all the dead and wounded people caused by guns. As long as they have their guns they do not care.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

This is a thread for gun nuts and the resident misanthrope, which came apparent quite early. They want to have their guns (whatever type) and carry them everywhere with essentially no restrictions, and care nothing for all the dead and wounded people caused by guns. As long as they have their guns they do not care.

Huh. I think the thread creator asked numerous times to keep it on point.
Your above statement is a gross misrepresentation and not true.
Unless you have some proof of what you wrote.

 

[Trell]

Just because you stopped in.

I’m here for giggles for reading dumb posts, like your replies to Dude.

It’s many pages since I stopped giving responses with references to science and other reputable sources. The same goes for several other highly knowledgeable members that bowed out from this ironically named thread.

In case you ask, I’ve used weapons. In fact, I’ve done the military service in my country. Have you?

 

[Trell]

Huh. I think the thread creator asked numerous times to keep it on point.
Your above statement is a gross misrepresentation and not true.
Unless you have some proof of what you wrote.

Go read the effing thread as well as your own posts.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I’m here for giggles for reading dumb posts, like your replies to Dude.

It’s many pages since I stopped giving responses with references to science and other reputable sources. The same goes for several other highly knowledgeable members that bowed out from this ironically named thread.

In case you ask, I’ve used weapons. In fact, I’ve done the military service in my country. Have you?

My posts to dude may be hyperbolic, but I figured to communicate with one, I need to communicate LIKE one.

I have not served in our military, but many of my family members have. I have great respect for our military. I love my country, but it’s a dumpster fire unfortunately. Being in the military gives one a unique perspective on this subject, but opinions of service members varies, just like it does with civilians.
I respect you for your service to your country.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well don’t you think it would add perspective?

So trell, thanks for the dumb rating!
So you don’t think using a firearm could give perspective to someone who hasn’t? Otherwise he seems a lot like chicken little.

 

[Trell]

So trell, thanks for the dumb rating!
So you don’t think using a firearm could give perspective to someone who hasn’t? Otherwise he seems a lot like chicken little.

Your reply was to a post about machine guns. You don’t have to have any particular experience, if any, with firearms to think those should not be allowed for civilian use. Similarly, you don’t need any particular experience with hand grenades to think they are not for civilian use.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Your reply was to a post about machine guns. You don’t have to have any particular experience, if any, with firearms to think those should not be allowed for civilian use.

Ok fair. I was lumping them together. Didn’t wanna dig through a hundred posts to find the one that stuck out. But generally speaking don’t you think that would be true about perspective? I know tons of conceal and carry card holders. They’re nothing if not reasonable. I also know “jimbob”, and he don’t give a damn about town, or anyone in it. He just wants to shoot his guns out nowhere, where nobody can get hurt. If he wants a MG, I couldn’t care less. I also know unstable people who shouldn’t be anywhere near a gun, but if they want one, they will get one.
The reason it matters, is because he seems to be saying gun owners and enthusiasts are some maniacal group of miscreants just waiting to shoot people, while not recognizing at all that the kinds of people that DO want to do that will get those weapons anyway. Bans and BC’s will just change how they do.

 

[Mikado463]

This thread just gets dumber and dumber.

Sadly controversial topics often go that route. Myself, while I am a life long gun enthusiast, hunter and competitive shooter in various disciplines I have no interest or use for machine guns or any of the many 'black gun' offerings out there.

Early on in this thread I stated my position on the subject in general and I stand by it........

 

[panteragstk]

Sadly controversial topics often go that route. Myself, while I am a life long gun enthusiast, hunter and competitive shooter in various disciplines I have no interest or use for machine guns or any of the many 'black gun' offerings out there.

Early on in this thread I stated my position on the subject in general and I stand by it........

That's me. Guns are tools to get a job done. They're not toys and entirely too many people treat them that way.

 

[highfigh]

This is a thread for gun nuts and the resident misanthrope, which came apparent quite early. They want to have their guns (whatever type) and carry them everywhere with essentially no restrictions, and care nothing for all the dead and wounded people caused by guns. As long as they have their guns they do not care.

I started this thread to see if anyone wanted to come up with some sensible ideas to reduce the senseless killing. Being where you are, you can't be expected to understand the problem in the same way but go ahead and think that there are no restrictions. The restrictions do NOTHING to stop the illegal gun trade and use. THAT'S what I want to deal with. Legal gun owners are a problem, but they aren't the ones killing thousands every year.

If you can't accept that, it's your problem. Look at what happened in Chicago during the July 4 weekend and tell me that you believe legal gun owners were involved. 109 shot, 19 dead.

 

[highfigh]

That's me. Guns are tools to get a job done. They're not toys and entirely too many people treat them that way.

Some think it's a contest to see who can have the most guns. That mentality is ridiculous. If they want a collection, they should buy replicas but that doesn't let them beat on their chests and feel like a big man.

 

[highfigh]

I just heard a 'shots fired' call on the scanner app- IT'S 7 FREAKING AM!

And this happened recently-

This didn't happen just because of the availability of guns, NOBODY needs to be shooting at ANYONE at 7AM and the one used in the video was a Glock with a 'switch', making it fire faster than anyone can squeeze the trigger.

 

[cpp]

Some think it's a contest to see who can have the most guns. That mentality is ridiculous. If they want a collection, they should buy replicas but that doesn't let them beat on their chests and feel like a big man.

Ya mean like this

Hate to tell ya,. but replicas are worth less dollars for real actual collectors. Like a complete collection of old Winchester Model's 12, made from August 1912 until first discontinued by Winchester in May 1964, the Winchester Model 21 Side-by-Side Shotgun was produced from the 1930s to the 1960s .

 

[highfigh]

Ya mean like this View attachment 68610


Hate to tell ya,. but replicas are worth less dollars for real actual collectors. Like a complete collection of old Winchester Model's 12, made from August 1912 until first discontinued by Winchester in May 1964, the Winchester Model 21 Side-by-Side Shotgun was produced from the 1930s to the 1960s .

True- collector guns are nice and I should have been more clear, but I really meant replicas of guns that aren't really necessary, because the person isn't likely to handle a bad situation well.

I have mentioned a cousin's husband who buys ammo by the case, mostly 9mm FMJ. I had to remind him that FMJ is usually for target practice and his reaction was classic- sighed and hung his head down. They live in a very nice area with almost no crime and I have never heard of a home invasion out there. He has all kinds of pistols, his rifles are mainly AR-type but I think he may have an AK47. Never military and he doesn't handle crowds well, so I imagine that if anything more than a fly hits the fan, his reaction will make sure it and its friends are well fed, if you know what I mean.

All hat, no cattle. I don't think he has done anything more strenuous than going for a walk or up & down the stairs a few times/day at their house in the last 30 years.

 

[TankTop5]

Ya mean like this View attachment 68610


Hate to tell ya,. but replicas are worth less dollars for real actual collectors. Like a complete collection of old Winchester Model's 12, made from August 1912 until first discontinued by Winchester in May 1964, the Winchester Model 21 Side-by-Side Shotgun was produced from the 1930s to the 1960s .

An AR-15 would put tiny little holes in someone but a Winchester Model 21 would make a horrendous mess needing several people with mops and various cleaning supplies. I remember as a teenager a girl was mistakenly shot in a drive by shooting after a party. They used a 12 gauge shotgun, somewhat severed her in half, my friends stood around in shock as she gasped for several minutes before passing away, luckily I wasn’t there.

There is no elegant nice way to die from a gunshot but some are worse than others. I’d apologize for the previous mental image but it was real, part of my childhood. I’m still pro 2A as I still don’t believe guns are the problem or banning a specific class of firearm because of how it looks. They all serve one purpose, that’s to take life or to take life… protecting life. We have a morality problem in America.

If you have an idea to disarm America without a civil war while protecting Americans please let me know.

Day before last my 15 year old daughter and her 15 yer old friend were walking home from a convenience store. A mid 40’s male drove by them several times before stopping and asking them if they would get in his truck because he had beer for them. My daughter took a picture of the guy and his license plate, police said they can’t do anything because no crime has been committed yet. If something further happens we should call again, like one of them getting raped, kidnapped or murdered.

This is a F’d up world, we’ve tied law enforcement hands, they don’t want to do anything preemptively for fear of lawsuit. Gangs have guns and that won’t change meanwhile people want to disarm dads with daughters. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Again if you have a solution to the human problem I’d really like to know.

 

[cpp]

An AR-15 would put tiny little holes in someone but a Winchester Model 21 would make a horrendous mess needing several people with mops and various cleaning supplies. I remember as a teenager a girl was mistakenly shot in a drive by shooting after a party. They used a 12 gauge shotgun, somewhat severed her in half, my friends stood around in shock as she gasped for several minutes before passing away, luckily I wasn’t there.

I can tell ya nobody is going to use an actual Winchester Model 21 expect to let it set in a case. But yes a shotgun does some horrible damage.

 

[highfigh]

An AR-15 would put tiny little holes in someone but a Winchester Model 21 would make a horrendous mess needing several people with mops and various cleaning supplies. I remember as a teenager a girl was mistakenly shot in a drive by shooting after a party. They used a 12 gauge shotgun, somewhat severed her in half, my friends stood around in shock as she gasped for several minutes before passing away, luckily I wasn’t there.

There is no elegant nice way to die from a gunshot but some are worse than others. I’d apologize for the previous mental image but it was real, part of my childhood. I’m still pro 2A as I still don’t believe guns are the problem or banning a specific class of firearm because of how it looks. They all serve one purpose, that’s to take life or to take life… protecting life. We have a morality problem in America.

If you have an idea to disarm America without a civil war while protecting Americans please let me know.

Day before last my 15 year old daughter and her 15 yer old friend were walking home from a convenience store. A mid 40’s male drove by them several times before stopping and asking them if they would get in his truck because he had beer for them. My daughter took a picture of the guy and his license plate, police said they can’t do anything because no crime has been committed yet. If something further happens we should call again, like one of them getting raped, kidnapped or murdered.

This is a F’d up world, we’ve tied law enforcement hands, they don’t want to do anything preemptively for fear of lawsuit. Gangs have guns and that won’t change meanwhile people want to disarm dads with daughters. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Again if you have a solution to the human problem I’d really like to know.

People breed, even though they have no way to support the kids and some people with nothing have a lot of kids. When the parents are also addicted to drugs and alcohol, it's worse because any parenting is either missing completely, abusive or the kids are taught to be bad, by example.

Then, there's mental illness, which isn't being handled well, comes with so much stigma that nobody really wants to report it and government doesn't seem to have a clue about treating it.

But instead, let's have politicians who only want their party and candidate win and blather on about how much they're doing for the country, rather than addressing and fixing the problems.