Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
I found numerous reports of different firearms in almost every news report. While the one you referenced appears to be the most concise many of the model firearms listed don’t exist. They could very well be typos, but I really don’t know.I
I think I'll stick to what the local police reported.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Field Marshall
I think I'll stick to what the local police reported.
That’s perfectly fine and rational and could be entirely true, the news report could have made a couple minor errors. That said within the firearm community and people with lots of experience the muzzle report sounded different than that of a bump stock. The other article I quoted had Adam Schiff stating the FBI told him automatic weapons were found. Previously in the same article 2 bump stocks were found. Yes there are conflicting reports , I believe a possible explanation is that if automatic weapons were found there could be another investigation looking into their origins and releasing that information could have damaged that investigation. That’s just spitballing though. It was a horrendous massacre and I won’t fault people for wanting to suggest bump stocks were a contributing factor. Personally I think they’re ridiculous and coy care less if they never existed at all. This is a highly divisive issue and the two sides are not going to agree.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Because you pass a BC doesn't mean we should undo the ban on new machine guns being manufactured. Nor letting the states decide on new MG's.:rolleyes:
Since machine guns are heavily regulated for civilians, there's really not a large market for new ones- they're manufactured for the military, then the surplus are sold to qualified dealers who then sell to qualified buyers. Parts, OTOH, are less restricted and some are required to have a serial number that can be traced and is illegal to remove- the accessory parts like stocks, sights, scopes , etc are like car parts- they don't change the essence of the gun.

Who said we should undo the ban on machine guns (assuming fully-automatic)? Firearm manufacturing and sales are regulated on a Federal level, not state by state but concealed carry permits are restricted in some places, with or without reciprocity and some states don't allow that, at all.

But again, if you look at crime reports, you'll see a lot of felons in possession of guns because they just can't be bothered to obey the existing laws.

I understand hating the idea or fact of gun availability because I have known far too many people who used them to end their own lives, a few who were killed and the neighbor who was shot in the armed robbery attempt but I can't understand the idea that people should be defenseless. I don't mean they should constantly be paranoid- as I have posted, if someone is always in danger, they're in the wrong place. However, armed robbery comes in many forms & people, like business owners who are trying to make a bank deposit or sell expensive items that can be sold easily are more likely to be robbed than most and no, their insurance company won't just hand over the payment without a lot of questions. Also, the robber(s) won't always ask for it peacefully.

Nobody should need a gun- people should be able to live in peace but that's not reality. People do stupid and dangerous things every minute of every day in every part of the country. The rest of the World can take care of themselves, but this country isn't under the control of any other, nor should it be but people from other countries shouldn't be attacked by anyone in this country, either. That goes for other places too, but foreigners are attacked everywhere, so the problem isn't unique to the US.

The root of the problem is people doing terrible things and not caring about laws, people, property rights, etc. What they do, use and how they use it is up to them but it's hard to stop them. Complete gun control, by nature, restricts people who aren't criminals and that won't be good for anyone because there's no way to guarantee that if all guns are to be confiscated, they'll ALL be turned in or handed over.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
And that’s why I do not participate in any gun rights, organizations, or groups, I don’t want to be associated in any way shape or form with any fringe elements. My rights are my own personal rights and no one else needs to participate.
I worked on a house before the last election and the painter always had Rush Limbaugh playing. We talked a bit and later that year, I saw him at a grocery store- he invited me to a gathering at his house "with like-minded people". I declined- I can't think of many things that would be worse that that gathering, but it would apply to any group who would have been discussing such polarizing issues. My first thought was "We ARE NOT like-minded". We might agree on some things, but no. just no.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
That’s perfectly fine and rational and could be entirely true, the news report could have made a couple minor errors. That said within the firearm community and people with lots of experience the muzzle report sounded different than that of a bump stock. The other article I quoted had Adam Schiff stating the FBI told him automatic weapons were found. Previously in the same article 2 bump stocks were found. Yes there are conflicting reports , I believe a possible explanation is that if automatic weapons were found there could be another investigation looking into their origins and releasing that information could have damaged that investigation. That’s just spitballing though. It was a horrendous massacre and I won’t fault people for wanting to suggest bump stocks were a contributing factor. Personally I think they’re ridiculous and coy care less if they never existed at all. This is a highly divisive issue and the two sides are not going to agree.
I watched the video and initially, it sounded like full auto, but there's no way the sound of the shot's report would end without being reflected, so I listened with my eyes closed and the cadence didn't sound like full-auto. There's no certainty about shots vs sound at the Vegas incident because there's now way to trace.

I hear that (full auto gunfire) occasionally when I leave the windows open- it always sounds like pistols, which I assume are Glock with a switch because I'm not aware that those are available for other brands.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Field Marshall
I watched the video and initially, it sounded like full auto, but there's no way the sound of the shot's report would end without being reflected, so I listened with my eyes closed and the cadence didn't sound like full-auto. There's no certainty about shots vs sound at the Vegas incident because there's now way to trace.

I hear that (full auto gunfire) occasionally when I leave the windows open- it always sounds like pistols, which I assume are Glock with a switch because I'm not aware that those are available for other brands.
A bump stock will usually start off just a little slower as it develops a rhythm, happens pretty quick but it is noticeable if you know what you’re listening for. They also aren’t a consistent rate of fire and generally you need a couple tries to get through a full magazine.

 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
A bump stock will usually start off just a little slower as it develops a rhythm, happens pretty quick but it is noticeable if you know what you’re listening for. They also aren’t a consistent rate of fire and generally you need a couple tries to get through a full magazine.

The cadence is definitely different. I hate the fact that dirtballs have easy access to switches and they're creating chaos in many cities- firing into the air is stupid enough but it's good that the local moron posted a video online, so it could be used to add time to his sentence. He killed a 30 round magazine very quickly (it could be seen in the video).
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Field Marshall
The cadence is definitely different. I hate the fact that dirtballs have easy access to switches and they're creating chaos in many cities- firing into the air is stupid enough but it's good that the local moron posted a video online, so it could be used to add time to his sentence. He killed a 30 round magazine very quickly (it could be seen in the video).
You can literally order a Glock switch online and it’s totally legal so long as you don’t also own a Glock, then you can get charged with intent to manufacture a machine gun. Yeah some of this stuff makes zero sense and some regulations could easily be put in place to curb how easy it is to acquire these parts. Furthermore Glock switches are pointless except for gangs using spray and pray tactics.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
You can literally order a Glock switch online and it’s totally legal so long as you don’t also own a Glock, then you can get charged with intent to manufacture a machine gun. Yeah some of this stuff makes zero sense and some regulations could easily be put in place to curb how easy it is to acquire these parts. Furthermore Glock switches are pointless except for gangs using spray and pray tactics.
What good is the switch if it's not used on a Glock?

I read some comments about the switch being used by some tactical departments but also that it makes the gun harder to control.
 
T

TankTop5

Audioholic Field Marshall
What good is the switch if it's not used on a Glock?

I read some comments about the switch being used by some tactical departments but also that it makes the gun harder to control.
A friend of mine is head of SWAT so I’ll ask him but I don’t think there’s any situation that a Glock switch would improve tactically considering you are responsible for every round that leaves your weapon. Many other tools better for the job like an MP5 if want full auto and control of the weapon which many law enforcement agencies do have along with full auto M4’s.

Justbover a week ago there was a possibility active shooter situation two blocks from my house, about 100 cops all with short barrel M4’s and suppressors. I don’t personally see the need for full auto but suppressors are great. Law enforcement can actively engage a subject without hearing protection and be able to easily hear commands and communicate… shoot, move, communicate.

edit add: the only purpose for a pistol in a gunfight is to get to your rifle.

edit 2: there are no law enforcement agencies anywhere in the United States that use a Glock switch. I guess it could be possible. A couple possess them just to see what they do, but no, none of them would ever use one. That’s the official response from the head of the local SWAT team.
 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
speaking of shotguns..............got caught in a downpour shooting clays today. The A400 needed a good cleaning anyways .........
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Since machine guns are heavily regulated for civilians, there's really not a large market for new ones- they're manufactured for the military,

Who said we should undo the ban on machine guns (assuming fully-automatic)? Firearm manufacturing and sales are regulated on a Federal level, not state by state
Machine guns are heavily regulated against civilians. There isn't a market for them because govt took it over. They're for the military only.

We don't need to find out what the state's would do. That's why the Feds have control of it.
 
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TankTop5

Audioholic Field Marshall
I guess that's like boys and their hard drugs without real need....
Or boys and their stereos without real need.

It’s just stuff and things, we have a human problem and taking stuff from regular people won’t affect bad people
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
Or boys and their stereos without real need.

It’s just stuff and things, we have a human problem and taking stuff from regular people won’t affect bad people
Bit difficult to say stereos and guns are equal. Regular people are banned from certain types of guns due to circulation and excess. Taking stuff from regular people like new MG's is a deterent from them getting into the wrong hands. By consider them "just stuff and things" leads me to believe you couldn't make a sound judgment on the influx of more of the new MGs. Therefore a universal ban on them.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Machine guns are heavily regulated against civilians. There isn't a market for them because govt took it over. They're for the military only.

We don't need to find out what the state's would do. That's why the Feds have control of it.
You aren't recognizing the fact that info about machine gun access for civilians has been posted. It IS possible to buy them, but because most PEOPLE can't be trusted with them, it's harder to buy them. Again, people are the problem but you refuse to acknowledge it.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Bit difficult to say stereos and guns are equal. Regular people are banned from certain types of guns due to circulation and excess. Taking stuff from regular people like new MG's is a deterent from them getting into the wrong hands. By consider them "just stuff and things" leads me to believe you couldn't make a sound judgment on the influx of more of the new MGs. Therefore a universal ban on them.
Look at the laws prohibiting access by felons possessing guns- how well is that working?
 
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