Building a house around a home theatre system

EdR · Mar 16, 2004

ThA tRiXtA : That is a great idea of running conduit internally through the walls to allow for future rewire pulling. But if one drilled holes through the studs big enough, would it not allow for rewire pulling, or do you have to run conduit?

If so, what type of material for a conduit is ideal? Liek a PVC pipe with elbows for corners?

Hi,

Well, you've got to figure that if you just drill holes, you'll still have 16" of free air between them behind drywall (if an inside wall) or that space would be stuffed with insulation on an outside wall.  Either would make pulling more wire somewhat difficult.

The current issue of Home Theater Mag (April 04) has an article on 'Future Proofing your Home Theater'.  They reccommend something called Blue Tube Flexible Plastic Conduit (ENT) in either .5 or .75" dia.  The larger is about 33 cents/foot at Home Despot.  Probably not worth the five bucks, but you might want to wander down to Borders or some such place and skim it for other ideas.

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 16, 2004

ok so I will definately have to run a conduit...

But I guess it's worth it in case I ever do have to rewire!

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 16, 2004

what do u guys think of the ceiling height in the dedicated audio room, and what style of ceiling?

EdR · Mar 16, 2004

As you're mostly going after HT rather than music, and if I might assume that the action/adventure (=Big Bass) will play a good role in your viewing, then you might want to be a little concerned about standing waves.

Two thoughts- first, two subs are better than one. I'd look at the HSU TN1200 pair with his 500 watt amp.

Second is the fewer parallel walls the better, and this includes the ceiling.

I would also point that your acoustic needs are much different than those of the high end audiophiles- even a DTS soundtrack has much less information in it than even an audio CD- to say nothing of SACD or DVD-A, and you frankly just aren't interested in that last soupcon of transparency and inner detail that would allow you to realize that Yo Yo Ma is playing with a bow that contains 3 fewer horsehairs than usual.

Rip Van Woofer · Mar 16, 2004

Let me add more "recommended reading": the Infinity website has several excellent white papers (in .pdf format) on room acoustics and speakers/room interactions (long on science & info, and short on market-speak) written by Dr. Floyd Toole, a recognized and respected authority. They range from basic to kinda techy and are all worth reading. And don't forget the acoustic articles here on A'holics, too!

Based on what I've read, I'd want either a cathedral ceiling or a higher-than-normal flat ceiling: better yet, make that a higher-than-normal coffered ceiling. I think a 9 or 10 foot coffered ceiling would not only sound but look great. Especially with allegorical paintings on the panels: "The Triumph of THX", "The Damnation of the Cable Charlatans", etc...

When you get this room finished you owe us all a party!

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 16, 2004

hehhehe if you wanna travel up to the icy north (read: Canada) your more then welcome to come check it out!

Rob

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 16, 2004

Hey why would one want two subs? I have read, I think even on this site too, if I am not mistaken, that having two subs at once can cause phasing / standing wave / general noise issues ....

can you delve into why you would go two versus one?

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 16, 2004

as for the parallel walls, how could one make opposing walls not run parallel to eachother without having some really really weird shaped room?

And as for the number of horse hairs... you are correct, I don't need a 100, 000 dollar music studio and I am not trying to split the atom....

However, I figure the more quality you can get out of it, hey, why the hell not!

And I will be listening to music in this room as much, or maybe even more then using it for home theatre...

Kilwox · Mar 16, 2004

Hey Trixta,
 I'm all about road trips.  What city are you in?  I'd love to see thi room some time?

Andrew

EdR · Mar 17, 2004

ThA tRiXtA : Hey why would one want two subs? I have read, I think even on this site too, if I am not mistaken, that having two subs at once can cause phasing / standing wave / general noise issues ....

can you delve into why you would go two versus one?

There is no escape from standing wave issues with bass- it's a law of physics thing.  Thus, some sort of loud vs. soft areas in bass response (peaks and nulls) is unavoidable- you place the sub to minimize this.  With two.. properly placed, you can offset this to gain a more even response in the room.  You are correct in that improperly places, you can make things worse.

Also, do the math:  100db + 100db= 103db

Guest · Mar 17, 2004

Also, do the math:  100db + 100db= 103db

Ummm,

Something I am missing here gentlemen?

Rip Van Woofer · Mar 17, 2004

ThA tRiXtA : as for the parallel walls, how could one make opposing walls not run parallel to eachother without having some really really weird shaped room?

That's the thing. You'd have a weird-shaped room. And it wouldn't be worth the trouble. According to what I've read, it doesn't eliminate standing waves & resonances, just shifts them around vs. a plain ol' rectangle.

A couple of things I've read about controlling bass in a room are: 1) You want the walls to flex a bit to absorb rather than reflect bass. Good ol' stud and drywall construction does the job for that just fine. 2) There is no "magic proportion" for a room (i.e., "golden ratio&quot

, but it's a good idea to avoid ratios that can be expressed in whole numbers. So, instead of (say) a 2:3 ratio for your room, you might want a 2:3.5 ratio or something like that for instance (source: Floyd Toole). And of course you don't want to have a cube-shaped room.

Have you been doing your "recommended readings", young man?

BTW for you and EdR: Just ordered the "Master Handbook of Acoustics" from Amazon & should have it in a few days. I see the same author has a book on building rooms for recording and listening, too.

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 17, 2004

Hey what was the price on Amazon man?

BTW, let me know what your thoughts on that book are and if it did anythnig for you please.

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 17, 2004

Heh heh yes I have been reading my good man...

I am surprised as you recommended the studs and drywall to be a good addition to the room, alot of the sites I have been reading complain how you shouldn't use it, or even further, use their special kind of drywall or all these other crazy products

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 17, 2004

Kilwox : Hey Trixta,
I'm all about road trips. What city are you in? I'd love to see thi room some time?

Andrew

Hey man I live in Ottawa, Canada

EdR · Mar 17, 2004

Rip Van Woofer : BTW for you and EdR: Just ordered the "Master Handbook of Acoustics" from Amazon & should have it in a few days. I see the same author has a book on building rooms for recording and listening, too.

Hi,

Let me know what you think.  I'm about to order my integrated amp and CD player, so I'll have everything onhand to complete my music room, and acoustics will be the next place I focus.  While those Thiel speakers make lovely free standing sculptural elements in the room, I think that actually playing will be an inprovement.

EdR · Mar 17, 2004

ThA tRiXtA : Heh heh yes I have been reading my good man...

I am surprised as you recommended the studs and drywall to be a good addition to the room, alot of the sites I have been reading complain how you shouldn't use it, or even further, use their special kind of drywall or all these other crazy products

Nope, Rip is right.  It can get confusing, depending if you're trying to keep sound from getting out to annoy neighbors or deal with bass issues.  Most of that fancy stuff is about soundproofing, not bass control.

It's about energy conversions.  The basics are, if you have a bass problem at some frequency, it means that you've got too much energy at that frequency.  If you can make something physically move selectively at that frequency (resonate), then you're converting the sound energy into mechanical energy, and then to heat- leaving less energy to hear, and volia' bass control.  Even absorbers work this way, the movement is just at a 'micro' level and friction takes it almost immediately to heat.  So, if the bass is moving the drywall, then the amount of energy needed to create that movement will reduce the bass 'bump'.  Drywall nailed over studding is much like a drumhead.

Rip Van Woofer · Mar 17, 2004

ThA tRiXtA : Heh heh yes I have been reading my good man...

I am surprised as you recommended the studs and drywall to be a good addition to the room, alot of the sites I have been reading complain how you shouldn't use it, or even further, use their special kind of drywall or all these other crazy products

Some of specialized 'crazy' wall panel products might be for soundproofing so you don't get noise from outside (or disturb the rest of the house). But the basic stud/panel technique is the same. Main thing is, contrary to many tend to assume, is that you want some flex to the walls, not total rigidity as in concrete or stone, to absorb bass energy. And that you don't have to do anything really exotic. Other products might be for absorption and/or diffusion of mid to high frequencies.

Of course, the trick in reading the info on the acoustical treatment product sites is to separate the key info from the marketing. That's why I like the whitepapers on the Infinity site: Infinity doesn't seem to have told the author to hawk anything so they're pretty straightforward science and educated opinion.

I like a lot of the advice from Rives Acoustics here on Audioholics too, because they generally draw a clear distinction between basic advice and product promotion, like "you can spend big bucks on this product from us, but here's another way if you can't or don't want to". A very honorable and up front approach.

Ottawa's a bit of a drive from Motown, alas!

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 17, 2004

Yea, I have made a booklet of info absorbed from the audioholics articles, including the rives audio articles on acoustics... good stuff!

I cant wait to actually have the room to use my system to it's full potential, versus being cooped up in this retchid, overpriced, undersized, acoustical hell apartment...

ThA tRiXtA · Mar 17, 2004

Hey EdR - can you please explain how this equation correlates into making two subs betetr then one?

Also, do the math:  100db + 100db= 103db

Hey Rip, I checked out your audio site breifly while at work today, nice job, good content.. I plan to take a better look on my day off.

What is the url for the infinity site? is it just infinity.com?

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