M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
It wasn't just that ship.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/17/what-americans-thought-of-jewish-refugees-on-the-eve-of-world-war-ii/





http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/us-government-turned-away-thousands-jewish-refugees-fearing-they-were-nazi-spies-180957324/?no-ist



There's plenty of literature out there if you look around.



You mean things like this (Uganda being vast majority Christian). Or this (Brazil being vast majority Christian).



Freedom of religion doesn't equate to freedom to discriminate any more than the freedom to commit honor killings, the freedom to hold slaves, etc.
Steve, the examples you gleefully point out are unique to these particular countries and pretty much contained within their borders. I don't see them trying to export their warped ideas to other countries, do you?

As for discrimination, as long as there are others to do what needs to be done, then those who oppose it for religious reasons shouldn't be forced to go against their religious convictions.

What did you think about the poor, offended muslims demanding that crosses be removed from a Catholic university they CHOSE to attend? Now, I don't care who you are, that's funny.

Stage two, Steve. Stage two.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Steve, the examples you gleefully point out are unique to these particular countries and pretty much contained within their borders. I don't see them trying to export their warped ideas to other countries, do you?
There's no glee in it Mark. It's a sad commentary on the state of the world, regardless of what religion people subscribe to. Don't forget, we're lucky as heck to live where we do. We have advantages in education, economics, etc. that many people couldn't even fathom. That makes it easy to cast stones, but one should also remember that our history and indeed, we ourselves are far from perfect.

As far as those nations "exporting" their ideas, where do you think some of those warped ideas came from in the first place? From that Uganda wiki:

From 5 to 8 March 2009, a workshop organised by the Family Life Network, led by Ugandan Stephen Langa, and entitled "Seminar on Exposing the Homosexuals' Agenda" took place in Kampala, the capital of Uganda.[23] The workshop featured three US evangelical Christians: Scott Lively, an author who has written several books opposing homosexuality; Caleb Lee Brundidge, a self-professed former gay man who conducts sessions to heal homosexuality; and Don Schmierer, a board member of Exodus International, an organisation devoted to promoting "freedom from homosexuality through the power of Jesus Christ".[24][25] The theme of the conference, according to The New York Times, was the "gay agenda": "how to make gay people straight, how gay men often sodomized teenage boys and how 'the gay movement is an evil institution' whose goal is 'to defeat the marriage-based society and replace it with a culture of sexual promiscuity' ".[21] Kapya Kaoma, an Anglican priest from Zambia, was in attendance and reported on the conference. Lively asserted in his workshops that legalizing homosexuality would be akin to accepting child molestation and bestiality. He also claimed that gays threaten society by causing higher divorce rates, child abuse, and HIV transmission. He said that US homosexuals are out to recruit young people into homosexual lifestyles.
As for discrimination, as long as there are others to do what needs to be done, then those who oppose it for religious reasons shouldn't be forced to go against their religious convictions.
The argument that "someone else" can fill the demand didn't fly in the civil rights era, and it doesn't look like it's going to fly today. That goes 10x for government institutions.

What did you think about the poor, offended muslims demanding that crosses be removed from a Catholic university they CHOSE to attend? Now, I don't care who you are, that's funny.
I can't claim to have much sympathy for their cause. I doubt the courts will either, but we'll see.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
There's no glee in it Mark. It's a sad commentary on the state of the world, regardless of what religion people subscribe to. Don't forget, we're lucky as heck to live where we do. We have advantages in education, economics, etc. that many people couldn't even fathom. That makes it easy to cast stones, but one should also remember that our history and indeed, we ourselves are far from perfect.

As far as those nations "exporting" their ideas, where do you think some of those warped ideas came from in the first place? From that Uganda wiki:
I don't recall anyone saying to kill them. ...at least no real Christian I ever heard of.

The argument that "someone else" can fill the demand didn't fly in the civil rights era, and it doesn't look like it's going to fly today.
Well, nobody would back in those Jim Crow days. But, many did support the movement. It's a stain on the democrats that they created and perpetuated this. That, and the KKK.

Now, this is totally different era and a totally different issue. They have equality, Now they want superiority.

I can't claim to have much sympathy for their cause. I doubt the courts will either, but we'll see.
At least we can agree on something. I'm seriously concerned by what kind of country my great grandkids will have to live in. As it's going, unless things change, it doesn't look too rosy.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
...at least no real Christian I ever heard of.
There's the problem: a lot of people call themselves X, Y, or Z, and cherry pick what they want out of scripture as an excuse to do horrible things.

They have equality, Now they want superiority.
If they're getting discriminated against, that isn't equality Mark. We have freedom of association in our private lives; government agents/institutions and businesses do not. You may want to consider the practical effect of letting such legislation go through, particularly if you're concerned about a massive influx of immigrants who don't share your beliefs.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Sorry, but yes there are.
Here is a definition of fascism from wikipedia:

Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete, and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[7] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[7] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature, and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.

This definition fits what conservatives see as the liberal agenda and strategy today... both here and, I suspect, the UK.
I don't see anything in that definition pointing exclusively towards left-leaning political philosophy. To claim totalitarian government to be the sole domain of left-wing government is beyond the pale. Tyranny exists at both ends of the political spectrum.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Apparently it's a race to prove incompetence... Not sure if the EU or the USA Government is winning? :D
EDIT: Sorry about print size. Not sure how it went off the rails.

EU bans claim that water can prevent dehydration

Brussels bureaucrats were ridiculed yesterday after banning drink manufacturers from claiming that water can prevent dehydration.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8897662/EU-bans-claim-that-water-can-prevent-dehydration.html

EU officials concluded that, following a three-year investigation, there was no evidence to prove the previously undisputed fact.

Producers of bottled water are now forbidden by law from making the claim and will face a two-year jail sentence if they defy the edict, which comes into force in the UK next month.

MEP Roger Helmer said: “This is stupidity writ large.
“The euro is burning, the EU is falling apart and yet here they are: highly-paid, highly-pensioned officials worrying about the obvious qualities of water and trying to deny us the right to say what is patently true.

“If ever there were an episode which demonstrates the folly of the great European project then this is it.”

EU regulations, which aim to uphold food standards across member states, are frequently criticized.

Rules banning bent bananas and curved cucumbers were scrapped in 2008 after causing international ridicule.
Your grandfather was a wise and good man.

As for the other point, let me put it this way. Suppose you had a big bowl of M&Ms. Suppose again that 2% were poison and indistinguishable from the others Would you still reach in and grab a handful?
Wise, because of the still or demanding that the kids speak English? :D

Despite this, two of my aunts had a distinct accent and were fluent in Polish. Kids!

2% of the total, maybe. Look at the facts behind the events and the percentage is very different. Also, M&Ms don't deny their religion or make plans to cause problems in the future as a way to strike fear into peoples' hearts, battle the existing government and attempt to take over in a place where they're not native. Collecting in small areas, bringing more in and settling the areas between the existing areas where they live and eventually causing a population vacuum is what Dearborn has been seeing and it's a very effective way to take over, one city at a time.

Who's causing the problems? Why are security agencies prevented from selecting the most likely participants instead of searching everyone?
 
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J

Jeepers

Full Audioholic
This is going a bit off the rails. The UK Immigration beef is not primarily about immigration of Muslims. It is about the legal Immigration if EU citizens, primarily from Eastern Europe, South Med and the Balkan states.

The problem is too many people overloading housing capacity, schools, the NHS and transport capacity. That is the issue that has to be brought under control whatever the EU has to say. That is what the next prime minister must deliver on.
I agree with all of it and this is not only something your next prime minister must deliver on but also what the EU must deliver on for their internal market. We have the same issues whereby even better workers from Eastern Europe (EE) are 'posted' in Western Europe (WE) under EE work conditions (including salary) resulting in the transport business predominantly using truck drivers from EE with whom the ones from WE can't compete with. I cannot believe that this is what the EU had in mind but that is the reality.

Freedom of movement is one thing but that should also mean that people from country A working in country B should be doing that under the exact same conditions as the people from country B.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Wise, because of the still or demanding that the kids speak English? :D Despite this, two of my aunts had a distinct accent and were fluent in Polish. Kids
Nobody denies anyone the right to maintain their own language and cultural identity but to "mainstream" into their new home, one should adapt to their language and customs.
That, and he didn't try to bend America to what his old country was. He embraced all that is could be, not try to turn it into from where he left. All of our ancestors did. It's only a fairly recent occurrence that immigrants refuse to do so and would rather remain in their own, self made ghettos.

I'm not totally immune to this either. Newark and pockets (the whole East Side) that might as well be Brasil or Portugal but at least the signs are mostly in English and most, not all. speak English. but, the second generations most definitely do.

2% of the total, maybe. Look at the facts behind the events and the percentage is very different. Also, M&Ms don't deny their religion or make plans to cause problems in the future as a way to strike fear into peoples' hearts, battle the existing government and attempt to take over in a place where they're not native. Collecting in small areas, bringing more in and settling the areas between the existing areas where they live and eventually causing a population vacuum is what Dearborn has been seeing and it's a very effective way to take over, one city at a time.
It's a log, slow, but sure process. Reread post 114 (I think) and then this

http://americonnews.com/women-demand-segregation-authorities-serve-brutal-justice-instead/?utm_source=PSMA&utm_medium=shr&utm_campaign=PSMA


Who's causing the problems? Why are security agencies prevented from selecting the most likely participants instead of searching everyone?
That's something that a LOT of us are concerned with. If they did that then a lot of this mistrust wouldn't exist, or need to be. Many are concerned but our government seems insensitive to our pleas.

The fact that the boston bombers were muslim guests from chechnea who live here for many years on welfare didn't exactly help their case. Here's a sign in Dearborn. I can't verify it though but, after that lady in the Jersey City school board meeting. it's highly probable.

allah be praised.jpg
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I agree with all of it and this is not only something your next prime minister must deliver on but also what the EU must deliver on for their internal market. We have the same issues whereby even better workers from Eastern Europe (EE) are 'posted' in Western Europe (WE) under EE work conditions (including salary) resulting in the transport business predominantly using truck drivers from EE with whom the ones from WE can't compete with. I cannot believe that this is what the EU had in mind but that is the reality.

Freedom of movement is one thing but that should also mean that people from country A working in country B should be doing that under the exact same conditions as the people from country B.
Thanks for that affirmation.
Your last point really goes to the very heart of the problem. This is what is so hard for those outside Europe and the EU to understand.

The problem of working conditions in country A being different from country B, is caused by the Euro being a currency in search of a country. In other words because the Euro zone is not a transfer union, these imbalances and strains are severe and worsen with time.

Even though the UK is not part of the Eurozone, the free movement of labor makes it ground zero for the effects of the problem. Sterling has remained a stable reserve currency over time. In fact the GBP has tended to rise over time with respect to the Euro. This has made the situation worse, as when converted back to Euros, then in Poland they get more Euros to the pound, and those Euros in Poland have much greater purchasing power in Poland than France.

This is a recipe for chaos which is what is occurring.

The EU of course are in denial and drone on about ever closer union. That of course really is the answer, with the establishment of a Federal government and a transfer union. However no one will trust the unelected bureaucracy with the keys to the kingdom.

The diverse languages and cultures of Europe do not help. For instance I find a far bigger cultural chasm traveling the 21 miles from Dover to Calais, that the 4,400 miles from London to Minneapolis.

Hopefully other countries will leave the EU and a set up more suitable to Europe's situation will arise from the ashes. I don't think the EU will initiate the reforms that David Cameron told them they will have to make last week. The sooner the EU and its fatuous Euro is thrown on the dust bin of history the better. I fear however the EU and its Euro will die hard and cause a lot more problems before it is done.
 
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C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Who's causing the problems? Why are security agencies prevented from selecting the most likely participants instead of searching everyone?
Jeh Johnson was recently questioned in Congress about the scrubbing that's occurred in training manuals, documents, etc. of terms like Muslim, Islam, jihadist, etc.


If you watch the above video, you can come to your own conclusions whether the reasons given make sense. Myself, I think the authorities are hamstrung as well as overwhelmed from doing their jobs. Afraid they'll be written up for being xenophobes, bigots, racists, things are slipping through the cracks. The Boston bombers, San Bernardino, Orlando readily come to mind as examples where plenty of clues soon surfaced that strongly suggested something wasn't right. IMO, call a disease by what it is.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
TLS, can you speak to how this currency buying power in different countries manifests itself with some examples? Perhaps things like everyday staples, medical procedures, housing costs?
 
Ponzio

Ponzio

Audioholic Samurai
Let's get this straight. I have no problem with islam as a religion.
so it's OK to celebrate Christmas & Hanukah in schools but not Ramadan? u dont see the double standard, never mind how it conflicts with the Constitution/Bill of Rights?
I had a hard time believing that a sign like the one u posted would be allowed to stand or not be reported upon by the local/national press and i was right. debunked by both Snopes and various other sites.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/islamicagenda.asp
https://www.truthorfiction.com/dearborn-sign/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/nov/24/facebook-posts/viral-meme-says-islamic-group-posted-threat-kill-a/

there's more proof debunking this pic but I guess if one buys into their own nativism nothing will convince u otherwise.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Jeh Johnson was recently questioned in Congress about the scrubbing that's occurred in training manuals, documents, etc. of terms like Muslim, Islam, jihadist, etc.


If you watch the above video, you can come to your own conclusions whether the reasons given make sense. Myself, I think the authorities are hamstrung as well as overwhelmed from doing their jobs. Afraid they'll be written up for being xenophobes, bigots, racists, things are slipping through the cracks. The Boston bombers, San Bernardino, Orlando readily come to mind as examples where plenty of clues soon surfaced that strongly suggested something wasn't right. IMO, call a disease by what it is.
Didn't watch it, but I have no faith in this administration and trust all of them about as far as I can throw the whole universe.

If the 6th graders are causing problems, there's no reason to harass the 2nd graders or anyone else.

Fear of being called names is a pathetic reason for not speaking honestly.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Nobody denies anyone the right to maintain their own language and cultural identity but to "mainstream" into their new home, one should adapt to their language and customs.
That, and he didn't try to bend America to what his old country was. He embraced all that is could be, not try to turn it into from where he left. All of our ancestors did. It's only a fairly recent occurrence that immigrants refuse to do so and would rather remain in their own, self made ghettos.

I'm not totally immune to this either. Newark and pockets (the whole East Side) that might as well be Brasil or Portugal but at least the signs are mostly in English and most, not all. speak English. but, the second generations most definitely do.


It's a log, slow, but sure process. Reread post 114 (I think) and then this

http://americonnews.com/women-demand-segregation-authorities-serve-brutal-justice-instead/?utm_source=PSMA&utm_medium=shr&utm_campaign=PSMA


That's something that a LOT of us are concerned with. If they did that then a lot of this mistrust wouldn't exist, or need to be. Many are concerned but our government seems insensitive to our pleas.

The fact that the boston bombers were muslim guests from chechnea who live here for many years on welfare didn't exactly help their case. Here's a sign in Dearborn. I can't verify it though but, after that lady in the Jersey City school board meeting. it's highly probable.

View attachment 18641
I had heard my GF came here because he/the family didn't want him entering a war of some kind, but I haven't been able to find one that was happening at the time (1889 is when he immigrated) but I did find this link and if you look at it, I guess it sums up why this stuff is happening- people just can't go very long without someone starting a fight or war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

From your link- "The case serves as an example to the rest of the Muslim population that you don’t come to a foreign country and refuse to follow its customs and rules only to turn around and demand your own be enforced. If asylum seekers and migrants to Switzerland don’t want to truly be Swiss, why would they apply for citizenship or permanent residence there?"

EXACTLY! you don't waltz into someone else's house or yard, invited or not, and tell them how to live and that you want them to cater to you.

I don't think the sign is real- that would be a case of inciting violence, or sedition. If it is real, it means the Dearborn Police chief needs to be replaced by someone who has a set and if that doesn't work, they need to step up the response.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
so it's OK to celebrate Christmas & Hanukah in schools but not Ramadan? u dont see the double standard, never mind how it conflicts with the Constitution/Bill of Rights?
OK, imagine that you own a business and decided to hire a bunch of Somali Muslims. They do a good enough job to keep them as employees, but after they have worked for you for a while, they demand that you allow them to take five prayer breaks every day and the result of these breaks means that you need to stop production while they pray and then, because it's a manufacturing plant that uses injection molding and parts need to be heated for various reasons, it takes another 30-60 minutes to return to full speed, only to be required to stop again in a couple of hours (or less) to do it all over again. How would YOU deal with this? Material is wasted, time is wasted, the non-Muslims can't do their jobs. HOW would YOU deal with this?

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic religions, so they all worship the same deity, each being mono-theistic. How is it that Muhammad is treated as if he's a god, with the act of creating images of him, speaking badly of him and other "offenses" to him punishable by death? If he's treated as a god, how can they resolve the issue of him only being a prophet and even then, the Q'uran says he's not going to Paradise/Heaven on Judgement Day? Even the Q'uran has the name of Jesus Christ far more that of Muhammad. Christ holds a higher place than Muhammad, yet Muslims believe that their interpretation of the writings is the only correct one and that the other religions have it wrong and then, to make it even more odd, they came along more than 600 years after Christ. Muhammad even went to the same mountain as Moses, where both saw the burning bush and were there for 40 days. One difference between Judaism and Islam is that Moses went to Mt Sinai and was given the Torah, but the people below are said to have heard God's voice, whereas Muhammed went up along and came back with his revelations without witnesses to back up his story.

The Crusades were a response to the Muslims, African slavery was rampant because of the Barbary pirates (Muslim) and once again, we see that they want to spread their version of religion by force. I don't remember reading or hearing that the Jews forced anyone to convert (other than, "If you want to marry our daughter, you're gonna become a Jew" and "I tried to raise you to be a good boy and this is the thanks I get? Oy vey iz mir!") to their religion and the RC church is probably responsible for enough deaths as well, but this is the twenty-freaking-first century! Why do they need to act in ways that are so barbaric?
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Are the vacations primarily for the students or the faculty and administration? Maybe just limit it to federal holidays. Seems to me the kids could do with a bit more readin', writin', and rithmatic.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
TLS, can you speak to how this currency buying power in different countries manifests itself with some examples? Perhaps things like everyday staples, medical procedures, housing costs?
Paris versus Warsaw.

Poland versus UK.

Notice the significantly higher cost of living in a wealthier Eurozone country compared to the UK.

Cost of living Paris versus Athens.

I'm tied up with holiday activities at the moment. I will do a longer post about this and point out the toxicity of the EU and the Eurozone to the world wide economy. Those figures have consequences for all of us including those of us here in the US. We should all be glad to see the back of the Eurozone.
 

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