Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
AIG, Fannie Mae, 2008 Chase, long list goes way back. Billions, GM, Ford, Chrysler.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
AIG, Fannie Mae, 2008 Chase, long list goes way back. Billions, GM, Ford, Chrysler.
That's not "constantly", that was one incident for each of these companies over ten years ago. Such an exaggeration. Are you a politician? Perhaps you're really Ocasio-Cortez? If so, are you still looking for that $3B Amazon was going to get from NYC?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
In Europe the largest bank that looks as if it might need a bail out, is the German, Deutscher Bank. They have recently had lay offs across Europe. Across South Med, the banks are very rocky, especially the Italian ones. They are perpetually on the brink of, if not actually becoming insolvent. The reason is the Euro which is not a transfer currency.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
That's not "constantly", that was one incident for each of these companies over ten years ago. Such an exaggeration. Are you a politician? Perhaps you're really Ocasio-Cortez? If so, are you still looking for that $3B Amazon was going to get from NYC?
Dude, what's up with the name calling? You had your coffee yet? The list is a very long one, many failed or haven't paid back taxpayers money.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Dude, what's up with the name calling? You had your coffee yet? The list is a very long one, many failed or haven't paid back taxpayers money.
I don't drink coffee. I'm just a fan of precision and clarity, and your claims demonstrate neither attribute.

The banks and the automakers are really separate classes of cases. The banks were bailed out to save the financial system, and cascading failures would have thrown the country into a deep depression. Personally, I think a lot of senior bank and financial institution executives should have gone to prison for a long time over their breaches of fiduciary responsibilities, but bitching about it now is a fruitless exercise. In subsequent analysis it seems like the USG was afraid if they dismantled the banks' leadership it would have thrown these companies into further disarray, so too little was done. In the end, the US Treasury got more money out of TARP than it put in.

The automakers are a different story. These were bailouts to save jobs. GM declared bankruptcy and the US Treasury ended up owning a majority of the company, not to mention purchasing their finance subsidiary. One of the few times I've ever agreed with Trump on anything is when he told GM that if they closed the Lordstown plant they should have to pay back the ~$11B the Treasury lost on the GM bailout. I think I'd add "plus interest", since GM pays a very handsome 3.73% dividend to its shareholders.

Ford didn't declare bankruptcy, but it took loans from the US Treasury, which are still being paid off. But they are being paid off. And Chrysler was bought out by Fiat, and apparently the USG was out something over $1B over the whole fiasco. I'm guessing every politician in districts with Chrysler employees thinks ~$1B was cheap to save all of those UAW member jobs. So anybody who says only the financial companies got bailouts were wrong, so did hundreds of thousands of autoworkers and, secondarily, the entire automotive retail chain.

So my issues with your statement, dude, are your misuse of the term "constantly", and your lack of precision in your description of what happened. And that's why you reminded me of AOC. She gets the facts confused a lot too.
 
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Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
I don't drink coffee. I'm just a fan of precision and clarity, and your claims demonstrate neither attribute.
The banks and the automakers are really separate classes of cases. The banks were bailed out to save the financial system, and cascading failures would have thrown the country into a deep depression. Personally, I think a lot of senior bank and financial institution executives should have gone to prison for a long time over their breaches of fiduciary responsibilities, but bitching about it now is a fruitless exercise. In subsequent analysis it seems like the USG was afraid if they dismantled the banks' leadership it would have thrown these companies into further disarray, so too little was done. In the end, the US Treasury got more money out of TARP than it put in.
The automakers are a different story. These were bailouts to save jobs. GM declared bankruptcy and the US Treasury ended up owning a majority of the company, not to mention purchasing their finance subsidiary. One of the few times I've ever agreed with Trump on anything is when he told GM that if they closed the Lordstown plant they should have to pay back the ~$11B the Treasury lost on the GM bailout. I'm think I'd add "plus interest", since GM pays a very handsome 3.73% dividend to its shareholders.
Ford didn't declare bankruptcy, but it took loans from the US Treasury, which are till being paid off. But they are being paid off. And Chrysler was bought out by Fiat, and apparently the USG was out something over $1B over the whole fiasco. I'm guessing every politician in districts with Chrysler employees thinks ~$1B was cheap to save all of those UAW member jobs. So anybody who says only the financial companies got bailouts were wrong, so did hundreds of thousands of autoworkers and, secondarily, the entire automotive retail chain.
So my issues with your statement, dude, are your misuse of the term "constantly", and your lack of precision in your description of what happened. And that's why you reminded me of AOC. She gets the facts confused a lot too.
Dude, what bug crawled up your ass. Go mess with someone else. Google is your friend. Not going to entertain you. Later!!
 
T

Trell

Senior Audioholic
There will be Brexit by Nov. 1 I think.
I believe we just have to wait and see as I don't believe that Brexit is a certainty.

The EU started as a free trade organisation but has morphed into one of the most restrictive trade organisations.

The UK has always been a trading nation, and since the premiership of Sir Robert Peel in the nineteenth century has been a free trading nation pretty much. The seminal event was the repeal of the highly restrictive corn laws that had been exacerbating poverty and hunger.
UK has benefited greatly , financially as well as politically, from it's EU membership, and an exit from EU will have great (projected) csts over time. The argument that UK should leave EU because of (more) political and legal independance I actually sympathize with, but that Brexit will herald a new economic Golden Age not so much.

The Irish backstop has to go. That would leave the UK chained to EU trading policy and regs. By the way there will not be a hard border in Northern Ireland, the locals won't stand for it. Unless the EU want to send in their non existent army, then there is nothing they can do about it.
I'm more concerned what the locals will do, to be honest, considering the history of violence in that region.

...
The whole set up of the EU is antidemocratic. The next president to succeed Claude Junker, aka Drunker, was put in place after a giant stitch up and total disregard of a new system designed to make the selection just slightly more democratic. This would be like the US abandoning Presidential elections and having the President chosen by the "chosen few" behind closed doors and then the one choice presented to the senate for rubber stamping.
Yeah, there is certainly antidemocratic aspects of EU, which I'm not all that happy with. That said, EU is not a federation, so comparing with the election of the US president is a bit off the mark.

The EU has become not what the UK signed up for and they will now leave and be open to the world for business.
Half of UK total trade is with EU and has low transactions cost for this trade, so this new Golden Age is a pipe dream.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_United_Kingdom
 
T

Trell

Senior Audioholic
That's not "constantly", that was one incident for each of these companies over ten years ago. Such an exaggeration. Are you a politician? Perhaps you're really Ocasio-Cortez? If so, are you still looking for that $3B Amazon was going to get from NYC?
Don't hold back and tell us how you really feel about AOC :D
 
T

Trell

Senior Audioholic
In the end, the US Treasury got more money out of TARP than it put in.
Elisabeth Warren was the chairwoman of the Concessional Oversight Panel of the TARP program, but for some reason I believe you do not have a high opinion of her :D
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Elisabeth Warren was the chairwoman of the Concessional Oversight Panel of the TARP program, but for some reason I believe you do not have a high opinion of her :D
Let's see, she is proposing an unconstitutional wealth tax, she is in favor of Medicare-for-All, with the abolition of private health insurance, she wants to forgive over a $1T in college tuition loans (which penalizes those who weren't stupid, and does nothing about the issues which caused the problem in the first place),she wants to restrict military operations to help control global warming, she wants to increase marginal income tax rates, she's promoting currency manipulation by the US (that should be so popular with our allies...),and the she wants to do generalized government R&D into commercial products. And she outright lies on a state Bar application about being of Native American descent. So much to like... not.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Elisabeth Warren was the chairwoman of the Concessional Oversight Panel of the TARP program, but for some reason I believe you do not have a high opinion of her :D
BTW, your spelling error above (Concessional Oversight...) is better than any of the jokes in the joke thread.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
From the EU website-

"The European Union is a group of 28 countries in Europe.
These countries came together
to make things better, easier and safer for people.
They agreed to work together and help each other."

I'm all for peace and making things safer for all, but by "making things easier and helping each other it means that some will do less and still be on a similar level as the ones who do and pay more. What about the countries that, so far, haven't done as much helping others as holding their hands out for aid? This model, by design, means that those with more will be forced to help those with less, just because they signed up. Where is the incentive for the countries with less, to improve themselves?

All countries that are part of the European Union work together
to make sure that:
  • there is peace in Europe
  • people have good lives
  • things are fair for all people and nobody is left out
  • the languages and cultures of all people
    are respected
  • there is a strong European economy
    and countries use the same coin
    to do business together.
The countries of the European Union
share some important values.
For example, they work to make sure that all people are equal
and their rights are respected."

I see Europe hitting some brick walls when people demand more without accepting the fact that they have already gotten enough from others and it's time to contribute something of their own.

https://europa.eu/european-union/index_en
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Let's see, she is proposing an unconstitutional wealth tax, she is in favor of Medicare-for-All, with the abolition of private health insurance, she wants to forgive over a $1T in college tuition loans (which penalizes those who weren't stupid, and does nothing about the issues which caused the problem in the first place),she wants to restrict military operations to help control global warming, she wants to increase marginal income tax rates, she's promoting currency manipulation by the US (that should be so popular with our allies...),and the she wants to do generalized government R&D into commercial products. And she outright lies on a state Bar application about being of Native American descent. So much to like... not.
Is it me, or will the US experience a lot of whiplash if she's elected?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Is it me, or will the US experience a lot of whiplash if she's elected?
Oh yeah, and I forgot that she supports the New Green Deal. I can sum up her platform as follows: "Just vote for me! I'll promise you anything you want, anything you like that other candidates talk about, free to you, and I'll get wealthy people to pay for it!"
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Oh yeah, and I forgot that she supports the New Green Deal. I can sum up her platform as follows: "Just vote for me! I'll promise you anything you want, anything you like that other candidates talk about, free to you, and I'll get wealthy people to pay for it!"
Yes, the Millenial generation are a pretty socialist/Marxist lot, with some terrible ideas throughout the Western World. I do note that far too many of them are devoid of skill sets other than watching screens and causing trouble while they are at it.

I was talking to one of our framers at our construction site recently. He was lamenting the fact that most of them did not even own a tape measure.
I note they seem to have to choose housing close to lots of bars and restaurants as far too many are devoid of even the most elementary culinary skills.

I think may be the tide will change. I think the current high school grads and recent school leavers are made of better stuff. So may be a lot of this idiocy will pass.
 
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Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I think may be the tide will change. I think the current high school grads and recent school leavers are made of better stuff. So may be a lot of this idiocy will pass.
I sincerely hope you are correct.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
From the EU website-

"The European Union is a group of 28 countries in Europe.
These countries came together
to make things better, easier and safer for people.
They agreed to work together and help each other."

I'm all for peace and making things safer for all, but by "making things easier and helping each other it means that some will do less and still be on a similar level as the ones who do and pay more. What about the countries that, so far, haven't done as much helping others as holding their hands out for aid? This model, by design, means that those with more will be forced to help those with less, just because they signed up. Where is the incentive for the countries with less, to improve themselves?

All countries that are part of the European Union work together
to make sure that:
  • there is peace in Europe
  • people have good lives
  • things are fair for all people and nobody is left out
  • the languages and cultures of all people
    are respected
  • there is a strong European economy
    and countries use the same coin
    to do business together.
The countries of the European Union
share some important values.
For example, they work to make sure that all people are equal
and their rights are respected."

I see Europe hitting some brick walls when people demand more without accepting the fact that they have already gotten enough from others and it's time to contribute something of their own.

https://europa.eu/european-union/index_en
I think the real issues are much more deep seated at a fundamental psychological and social level than that.

Profound changes occurred in England from the 12 th century on. Under Henry Plantagenet the Great Council was established. Under his rule the foundations of British Common law were established, for both criminal and civil proceedings. The Jury system dates from about that time. This was the foundation of British common Law, the basis of jurisprudence though out the English speaking world including the US. The continental European justice systems are based on Roman Law. The two do not coexist well. So the EU insistence on the supremacy of the European Court of Justice does not fit well in the UK and is a serious point of conflict.

In fact under UK law, civil and especially financial cases can be heard in any jurisdiction. In financial cases in particular there is heavy preference for financial cases to be tried in the UK. So actually the UK legal profession probably stand to loose the most in a post Brexit world.

During the thirteenth century Parliaments become more organized and by 1295 Parliament met at Westminster and was called the 'Commons" for the first time.

Of course there were stresses and strains, with the Oxford provisions having to wrung out of King John and later Magna Carta.

By 1668 the supremacy of Parliament was established.

By contrast the rule on continental Europe was in large degree despotic. So it is no wonder that the UK populace are restive as what they see as a very inferior system of governance and jurisprudence the other side of the channel.

The EU have been relentingly successful at keeping senior leadership positions out of the hands of anyone from the UK. I suspect they fear the light of more democratic voices.

I think it is fair to say that a lot of the UK populace feel highly disenfranchised by the EU systems of governance. In my view with good reason. This is a major point of conflict not well covered in the US press.

I spoke with my brother a couple or so hours ago. He has been leader of the Kent County Council now for many years. I don't think he will run next time. Anyhow he is a senior conservative politician with easy access to the leavers of power, as the KCC has the largest budget behind the central government in the UK.

He feels there is now the feeling of major change and that the UK will leave the EU without agreement on October 31 with or without an election. He feels that Boris is now barnstorming the country in full election mode, prepared for one at any time

The clock may run out, as Parliament will be in recess until September. Under current rules an election would likely be called with the passing of a no confidence motion, or the agreement of two thirds of the house of commons. That being the case it is hard to see election being held before October 31 and so the clock would run out and the UK exit October 31 with no agreement.

After that an election would very likely follow, that Boris Johnson would most likely win. In any event it would be years before the UK could rejoin the EU.

As far as the union is concerned, Wales is pro leave as is most of England, especially the old industrial heart land of the North and Midlands.

Scotland is strongly remain. However Boris has said he will not allow another independence referendum. In any case Scotland would have to float a new currency as it would take some time to not only get admitted to the EU but more especially the Euro. A UK government would not share Sterling currency, although they could not stop them using it. However they would have to buy sterling reserves and could not run a deficit.

Northern Ireland voted remain. However I don't think the locals on either side will go back to a hard border. So the border will be "run" and illegal profits made shipping goods across the border. Anyone who knows the Irish, can foretell exactly what will happen. Any attempt to impose a foreign army will be strongly resisted on both sides.

The EU will have the choice of tolerating it, or imposing border controls on goods and people entering mainland Europe from and EU country! Interesting times indeed.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Yes, the Millenial generation are a pretty socialist/Marxist lot, with some terrible ideas throughout the Western World. I do note that far too many of them are devoid of skill sets other than watching screens and causing trouble while they are at it.

I was talking to one of our framers at our construction site recently. He was lamenting the fact that most of them did not even own a tape measure.
I note they seem to have to choose housing close to lots of bars and restaurants as far too many are devoid of even the most elementary culinary skills.

I think may be the tide will change. I think the current high school grads and recent school leavers are made of better stuff. So may be a lot of this idiocy will pass.
IMO, the problem of Millenials has been caused by several factors. First, the affluence that has come since the '60s has made it possible for even those who were the worst protesters against 'the establishment' to become extremely wealthy and hire people to do things they might have been able to (and their parents almost certainly were able) because they have better things to do. They gave their kids whatever they wanted and taught almost no discipline. Those kids repeated the 'get rich and have fun' idea, never bothering to be parents, rather than the kids' friend. Now, three or four generations later, after deciding that their kids WILL NOT work with their hands and they'll sue anyone in the event that the little dear is hurt if they try to teach the kids to do something useful, the combination of the economic collapse causing people in the trades to retire, get out and find different jobs or dying, we have lost the people who could be training the high school kids now, if only the schools hadn't dismantled their shop classes. The high school I attended had great shop classes and teachers, but they all quit out of loyalty when the drafting teacher was forced into early retirement, in the early-'80s. Now, I'm pleasantly surprised to see that they have a good technology center that's teaching robotics, electronics/computer control and other STEM fields.

We'll still need carpenters, masons, roofers, drywallers and other trades. Yesterday, I heard that architects are in high demand.
 

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