Bowers & Wilkins 603 Tower Speaker Review

[PENG]

Oh no, of course, not!

If it were up to us, you would be doing measurements on everything. But you just don’t have the time.

Fully agreed, nobody beat's Gene's reviews with measurements, too bad they couldn't do the Denon flag ship. That must be the only real flag ship reviewed by AH that does not include measurements. So now we have to rely on the one and only available but of much lower quality measurements by Audiovision.de.

If it is only time, I am now retired, and would do it for Gene for free, but I don't have the equipment.

 

[PENG]

Measurements of this speaker from the NRC:

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2020:nrc-measurements-bowers-wilkins-603-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

Just go by the looks, Shady might have done that one too!!

 

[gene]

Fully agreed, nobody beat's Gene's reviews with measurements, too bad they couldn't do the Denon flag ship. That must be the only real flag ship reviewed by AH that does not include measurements. So now we have to rely on the one and only available but of much lower quality measurements by Audiovision.de.

If it is only time, I am now retired, and would do it for Gene for free, but I don't have the equipment.

Thx, appreciate that. Just take my SR8012 measurements and add 10% or so more power.

I've got an interesting Integra review coming down the pipe in less than 2 weeks. Stay tuned...

 

[gene]

Your graphs don't have enough pretty colors in them, Gene!

I'm guessing the high crossover to the tweeter is not because of inability of the tweeter rather than a desire to use the mid for as much bandwidth as possible. I think that was a design goal.

It's one of those cases where a manufacturer focuses too much on a specific design goal that sacrifices quality in other areas. I've seen that quite often with other speaker brands before.

 

[Swerd]

It's a bit mind boggling that a company like B&W with all of their resources and PHD designers produced a speaker with a not so optimal XOVER. I suspected the tweeter lacked enough low end sensitivity hence why they crossed that mid over so high. They could have at least integrated a shallow horn to increase low end output if they didn't want to use a bigger back chamber and motor structure. Did you measure Fs of the tweeter?

I think Dennis was speaking about the Monoprice MP-T65RT towers, not the B&W 603s. My previous post was probably the source of the confusion, as I spoke about both speakers in one post.

 

[D Murphy]

I think Dennis was speaking about the Monoprice MP-T65RT towers, not the B&W 603s. My previous post was probably the source of the confusion, as I spoke about both speakers in one post.

Right. I should have included the question I was responding to. As for the B&W, this is hardly a new design feature of the company's approach to crossover points. I've modded at least two of their bookshelf models to lower the crossover point and roll off the woofer more steeply to get it out of the way of the high quality tweeter. But Gene is probably right in suspecting that the tweeter has limited low frequency extension. I still had to cross the woofer at a higher frequency than I would have liked because there wasn't enough output from the tweeter down low.

 

[PENG]

Thx, appreciate that. Just take my SR8012 measurements and add 10% or so more power.

I know you don't believe in doing 7 channel driven into 4 ohm test and you don't use regulated PS for your tests. It looks like Audiovision does, and below are their SR8012 vs AVR-X8500H in output power on the bench.

http://audiovision.de/marantz-sr8012-test/
http://audiovision.de/denon-avc-8500h-test/

Tests were done using 1 kHz sine wave, no distortions level mentioned, hopefully not more than 1%. Not too useful information, but I guess for comparison purposes it is better than nothing. Regardless, their results seem to agree with your "add 10%..." prediction, except the 7 channel into 4 ohm test, Denon output almost 24% more.

Stereo, 4 Ohms:
Denon......................... 260 W
Marantz.......................235 W

Stereo, 6 Ohms:
Denon..........................213 W
Marantz.......................184 W

5 Channel, 4 Ohms:
Denon..........................161 W
Marantz.......................140 W (or 149, it was too blurry to read)

5 Channel, 6 Ohms:
Denon..........................131 W (this one makes no sense, may be a typo)
Marantz.......................134 W

7 Channel, 6 Ohms:
Denon..........................122 W
Marantz.......................105 W

7 Channel, 4 Ohms
Denon..........................140 W
Marantz.......................113 W

Obviously this is the wrong thread for this, so may be a mod can move it to the right place.

 

[gene]

I know you don't believe in doing 7 channel driven into 4 ohm test and you don't use regulated PS for your tests. It looks like Audiovision does, and below are their SR8012 vs AVR-X8500H in output power on the bench.

http://audiovision.de/marantz-sr8012-test/
http://audiovision.de/denon-avc-8500h-test/

Tests were done using 1 kHz sine wave, no distortions level mentioned, hopefully not more than 1%. Not too useful information, but I guess for comparison purposes it is better than nothing. Regardless, their results seem to agree with your "add 10%..." prediction, except the 7 channel into 4 ohm test, Denon output almost 24% more.

Stereo, 4 Ohms:
Denon......................... 260 W
Marantz.......................235 W

Stereo, 6 Ohms:
Denon..........................213 W
Marantz.......................184 W

5 Channel, 4 Ohms:
Denon..........................161 W
Marantz.......................140 W (or 149, it was too blurry to read)

5 Channel, 6 Ohms:
Denon..........................131 W (this one makes no sense, may be a typo)
Marantz.......................134 W

7 Channel, 6 Ohms:
Denon..........................122 W
Marantz.......................105 W

7 Channel, 4 Ohms
Denon..........................140 W
Marantz.......................113 W

Obviously this is the wrong thread for this, so may be a mod can move it to the right place.

I know you don't believe in doing 7 channel driven into 4 ohm test and you don't use regulated PS for your tests. It looks like Audiovision does, and below are their SR8012 vs AVR-X8500H in output power on the bench.

http://audiovision.de/marantz-sr8012-test/
http://audiovision.de/denon-avc-8500h-test/

Tests were done using 1 kHz sine wave, no distortions level mentioned, hopefully not more than 1%. Not too useful information, but I guess for comparison purposes it is better than nothing. Regardless, their results seem to agree with your "add 10%..." prediction, except the 7 channel into 4 ohm test, Denon output almost 24% more.

Stereo, 4 Ohms:
Denon......................... 260 W
Marantz.......................235 W

Stereo, 6 Ohms:
Denon..........................213 W
Marantz.......................184 W

5 Channel, 4 Ohms:
Denon..........................161 W
Marantz.......................140 W (or 149, it was too blurry to read)

5 Channel, 6 Ohms:
Denon..........................131 W (this one makes no sense, may be a typo)
Marantz.......................134 W

7 Channel, 6 Ohms:
Denon..........................122 W
Marantz.......................105 W

7 Channel, 4 Ohms
Denon..........................140 W
Marantz.......................113 W

Obviously this is the wrong thread for this, so may be a mod can move it to the right place.

It's not that I don't believe in doing 4-ohm ACD tests but it's impractical, especially for AV receivers. Most high power amps will reach the wall outlet limit with 7CH driven into 8 ohms. So if you redo that test into 4 ohms, you're now limited by wall current and the power #s will drop even if the amp is capable (most receivers aren't). 4-ohm 2CH testing will show you if the amp has intentional and excessive nanny control like you will see in my Integra review.

The 4-ohm test these did is likely instantaneous sweep. No way the Denon can sustain 140wpc x 7 for very long. Wonder what the distortion was.

I like doing steady state 4-ohm tests for 2CH to make sure the receiver doesn't shut down or break driving a stereo pair of 4-ohm speakers.

Still useful info though what they did but distortion should always be stated.

 

[PENG]

It's not that I don't believe in doing 4-ohm ACD tests but it's impractical, especially for AV receivers. Most high power amps will reach the wall outlet limit with 7CH driven into 8 ohms. So if you redo that test into 4 ohms, you're now limited by wall current and the power #s will drop even if the amp is capable (most receivers aren't). 4-ohm 2CH testing will show you if the amp has intentional and excessive nanny control like you will see in my Integra review.

The 4-ohm test these did is likely instantaneous sweep. No way the Denon can sustain 140wpc x 7 for very long. Wonder what the distortion was.

I like doing steady state 4-ohm tests for 2CH to make sure the receiver doesn't shut down or break driving a stereo pair of 4-ohm speakers.

Still useful info though what they did but distortion should always be stated.

Agreed 100%, any longer than a couple hundred ms, or less, the unit should shut down anyway.

 

[baronvonellis]

I never liked B&Ws they always sounded really harsh in the treble. Thanks for the measurements that show why now! They are really great at selling expensive speakers that sound lousy, you have to give their marketing dept credit, they are the real geniuses there. I'm guessing that hot treble sounds exciting when listening at a local noisy big box store. Cuts through the din. And ironically it probably sounds great when listening to them from another room while doing household chores. That hot treble would sound natural from a longways off haha! It's probably marketed for casual listening people and not audiophiles, so it's funny they use so much technobabble to sell their speakers.

 

[GuitarPicker]

I always take my advise from forums on the internet. I would never try to do this research at home.