Bi-amping Denon X1300W and Klipsch RP-280F

[Petrolhead]

I have a problem with sound quality at high volume, seems distortion or clipping starts at between 75 and 80 percent.

There is a power meter on the receiver that show high output if i set it at 80 percent and the meter quickly falls of and the sound turns bad.

I only run two channels. Will it help Bi-amping the speakers and spread the load over more channels, or will it be the same?

I don’t need that just more power, just a little. Or do I need something else to run it?

 

[everettT]

I have a problem with sound quality at high volume, seems distortion or clipping starts at between 75 and 80 percent.

There is a power meter on the receiver that show high output if i set it at 80 percent and the meter quickly falls of and the sound turns bad.

I only run two channels. Will it help Bi-amping the speakers and spread the load over more channels, or will it be the same?

I don’t need that just more power, just a little. Or do I need something else to run it?

It the same power supply, so no it won't help. Running them full range at loud volumes can cause them to distort. Add in some clipping too, depending on the content, and it's hard to pinpoint exactly which.. Can you demo those speakers with a more powerful amp?

 

[Petrolhead]

It the same power supply, so no it won't help. Running them full range at loud volumes can cause them to distort. Add in some clipping too, depending on the content, and it's hard to pinpoint exactly which.. Can you demo those speakers with a more powerful amp?

Thank you for your reply. I unfortunately can’t get access to anything like that, but what you are saying is that it could be the speakers also?

I am also running a Klipsch R115-SW.

 

[everettT]

Thank you for your reply. I unfortunately can’t get access to anything like that, but what you are saying is that it could be the speakers also?

I am also running a Klipsch R115-SW.

What do you have the crossover set to? And do you have them set to small or large?

 

[-Jim-]

According to the Specs from Klipsch these speakers are very efficient at 98dB @ 2.83V / 1m. (About one watt.) That means they don't need a much power to get really Loud.

I'm guessing that @Petrolhead is driving them too hard, and is into Clipping and may have damaged them if the duration was too long. Get a Sound Meter and see what the level is 3 feet away from the speaker just as it starts to distort. If you don't have a meter, use a free App on a Cell phone. Please advise the level you obtain and we can go from there.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have a problem with sound quality at high volume, seems distortion or clipping starts at between 75 and 80 percent.

There is a power meter on the receiver that show high output if i set it at 80 percent and the meter quickly falls of and the sound turns bad.

I only run two channels. Will it help Bi-amping the speakers and spread the load over more channels, or will it be the same?

I don’t need that just more power, just a little. Or do I need something else to run it?

My hunch is that you are overloading that horn tweeter. Crossover is 1750 still in a significant portion of the power band. I suspect if you did use more power you would blow the tweeters, and those are known for that at high power.

Klipsch speakers play pretty loud and I don't know why you would want to play them louder.

Designing a really high powered speaker for concert level is a formidable undertaking. You are not going to do it at the price level of those speakers.

 

[Petrolhead]

What do you have the crossover set to? And do you have them set to small or large?

Thank you!

Crossover for front speakers are set to 40Hz on the receiver. Sub is on LFE port and setting for that is LFE + Main. «LPF for for LFE :120HZ

Fronts are set to Large.

 

[Petrolhead]

According to the Specs from Klipsch these speakers are very efficient at 98dB @ 2.83V / 1m. (About one watt.) That means they don't need a much power to get really Loud.

I'm guessing that @Petrolhead is driving them too hard, and is into Clipping and may have damaged them if the duration was too long. Get a Sound Meter and see what the level is 3 feet away from the speaker just as it starts to distort. If you don't have a meter, use a free App on a Cell phone. Please advise the level you obtain and we can go from there.

Thank you!

I don’t think they are damaged. I am not first owner, but they play awesome. I have just gently tried pushing them and they have been klipping only for seconds.

Ok I will try that when I am home alone and report back to you.

 

[Petrolhead]

My hunch is that you are overloading that horn tweeter. Crossover is 1750 still in a significant portion of the power band. I suspect if you did use more power you would blow the tweeters, and those are known for that at high power.

Klipsch speakers play pretty loud and I don't know why you would want to play them louder.

Designing a really high powered speaker for concert level is a formidable undertaking. You are not going to do it at the price level of those speakers.

Yea you are right regarding volume, but sometimes I just want a bit of concert level. The maximum height on the ceiling in this room is about 4,5 meters or 15ft, so I might be better of with a couple RF7’s or something?

One thing I struggle to understand is why Klipsch rate the speakers at 150W, as you guys say with their sensitivity I have a hard time understanding this. This is why I first suspected my amplifier. As this is 80W per channel. Way below the speakers

 

[ski2xblack]

Speaker power ratings are not as relevant as sensitivity, and Klipsch sensitivity ratings are exaggerated by 5-6 db due to their "in room" method of rating them. Yours are probably only 92 db/w/m or so. Taking that into account, and a propensity to replicate concert volumes, you're most likely driving your Denon into hard clipping. That's a recipe for damaging the speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Your volume control is either the absolute or relative scale but neither are in percentages. I've not had a Denon with a power meter otoh. What's the reading on the master volume and are you using relative or absolute volume scale? It wouldn't surprise me you're maxing it out, tho. Passive bi-amping with an avr is largely a waste of wire, tho.

 

[Petrolhead]

Speaker power ratings are not as relevant as sensitivity, and Klipsch sensitivity ratings are exaggerated by 5-6 db due to their "in room" method of rating them. Yours are probably only 92 db/w/m or so. Taking that into account, and a propensity to replicate concert volumes, you're most likely driving your Denon into hard clipping. That's a recipe for damaging the speakers.

Yea this is my theory. (I could be wrong). It even seems it can deliver the output I want for a very short period of time. Before it starts. I have backed out as soon as I hear it’s beginning.

Is there a way to tell for sure what’s going on?

 

[Petrolhead]

Your volume control is either the absolute or relative scale but neither are in percentages. I've not had a Denon with a power meter otoh. What's the reading on the master volume and are you using relative or absolute volume scale? It wouldn't surprise me you're maxing it out, tho. Passive bi-amping with an avr is largely a waste of wire, tho.

Than you for your time. I just assumed it was percentage, but you are right. I checked now. The one scale I am using is 0-98, not specified units. The other one is: -79.5dB - 18dB. Problems start around 75 which is about -6dB

when adjusting volume there is a bar that display energy use, if you turn it up there is a green bar going in to a yellow section, a bit like a tachometer would. But it seems like when the amp goes hot it tries to maintain volume and starts clipping, but I am no expert.

 

[everettT]

I'd set your speakers to small and start with an 80hz crossover and see if that helps. You probably asking the speakers do more than they need to/can. 40hz is pretty low to crossover to a sub with most speakers. The only reason to run your speakers that low is if they're capable of playing 30hz iir below, down 3db.

 

[lovinthehd]

Than you for your time. I just assumed it was percentage, but you are right. I checked now. The one scale I am using is 0-98, not specified units. The other one is: -79.5dB - 18dB. Problems start around 75 which is about -6dB

when adjusting volume there is a bar that display energy use, if you turn it up there is a green bar going in to a yellow section, a bit like a tachometer would. But it seems like when the amp goes hot it tries to maintain volume and starts clipping, but I am no expert.

I take that back, my 4700 does in Eco mode have an energy use thing, but never use it (and I leave eco mode off). No definition to the "energy" use so hard to know what it means. I think going to the LFE instead of LFE+Main setting is something to try.