Bad Yamaha 2500 Review

[Hibbing]

http://www.avguide.com/AVG_monthly/issue14_hispeed.pdf

Compared to the 56TXi

http://www.avguide.com/AVG_monthly/issue13_hispeed.pdf

 

[RJB]

Read both reviews...

I didn't see anything really bad listed for either receiver. No product is perfect and both have their pro's & con's, but did you notice the MSRP price difference? $1099 for the Yamaha and $1700 for the Pioneer.

Different price classes...one usually, or hopes at least , to get what one pays for...

 

[Xsound]

While the MSRP for the VSX-56 may be $1700, it can be found on-line for less than $1000. I own the VSX-54 which is similar to the 56 but lacks the USB and Firewire connections. It can be found on-line for about the same price as the RX-V2500.

Don't know that the review of the 2500 is necessarily negative, but the Elite receiver is a pretty dang strong machine. My 54 is awesome!

 

[parkerbender]

same is true for both

though the pioneer can be had for under 1000, the 2500 sitting on my shelf only set me back 650, shipped, sooooo.... still different classes, oh, and for the original poster, i didn't check the link, but here is one good review, it is awesome. okay, i'm done

-parker

 

[Tallcane]

Parker, where did you get your from? Did it come with manufacturers warranty?

 

[BMXTRIX]

I think a lot of the devil of a/v receivers lays in the overall engineering and thought process that goes into every aspect of the design. This is rarely tested by reviewers who just sit down and listen to the audio and, if you are lucky, look at the video quality of the main zone.

I have a Denon 3805 - great receiver for sure. But, the speed of the receiver seems to me to be far slower than the 2500. That's something that seems significant to me to point out in the 'have it now' generation we are in. The Denon is significantly slower in powering on and switching inputs when compared to the Yamaha.

I quite often see receivers utilize zone 2 capabilities, which are almost NEVER tested by reviewers. Is it really so hard to run a set of wires and an IR repeater to another room guys? So, they never discuss how easy zone 2 is to setup and control. They never test the audio quality for zone 2. They never even see if it works halfway decent.

After a quick look for what Pioneer has done... There is no indication that via RS-232 control that you can activate any of the additional zones. You only have control over the main zone. This leads me to the question of what added value is there for these extra zones from the receiver and are there discrete IR codes so other rooms can utilize them easily?

I know with both the 3805 & 2500 receivers that zones 1, 2, and 3 are all completely controlled independently via RS-232 and there are fully functioning macros that support those products. I know how perfectly zone 2 & 3 operation is and how wonderfully it can support a whole house audio system with the receiver as the hub. So, you can listen to some good music in the study, while the kids watch a movie, and your wife is upstairs. Everyone can listen to what they want easily.

I would add that I am wondering how I am going to hook my DVD player, HD cable, and PS2 up when there are only TWO component inputs on the Pioneer. Hello! If you aren't adding DVI & HDMI then 3 component inputs is now an absolute minimum on a mid-level receiver unless your TV has lots of inputs and you want to run lots of cables directly to it.

Don't get me wrong, I have used Pioneer, Denon, Yamaha, Rotel, Sony, etc. receivers and Pioneer has worked well as a one one unit just running a theater as most others are as well. But, when put in as part of a more advanced setup where the full capabilities of the receiver are being put to the test, the Pioneer fell short of the Denon and Yamaha units, with Yamaha being a slight step ahead of Denon in overall engineering for the complete package. Very slight step.

 

[Shinerman]

That was a bad review? Huh? I notice he had some very minor gripes about soundstage and bass on a particular CD. Is this the receiver's fault or the CD's fault? He never really said.

I'm assuming you have the Pioneer and are now trying to justify your purchase by bashing other brands. It's human nature I guess. But, if your going to do it at least pick an actual bad review. This will tend to support the basis of your post title a little bit better.

Shinerman

 

[mawst95]

I'm assuming you have the Pioneer and are now trying to justify your purchase by bashing other brands.

Make an assumption, then flame the guy for that assumption. I think that too deserves an

 

[Shinerman]

I'm assuming you have the Pioneer and are now trying to justify your purchase by bashing other brands.

Make an assumption, then flame the guy for that assumption. I think that too deserves an

Yep!

Shinerman

 

[Xsound]

Parker,
True the 56 runs a grand and you can get the 2500 for less than $700, just like my 54. Got it for $635 definitely same class. The 56 adds the USB and Firewire, that along with the price increase puts it in a different class.

BMX,
I haven't tried to run second zone and control anything, so I can't speak to how well it works, and certainly can't compare it to the Yammie or the Denon. Info on the Pioneer units state that the rs232 is for computer connectivity and for control. I definitely agree that the lack of a 3rd component input is a big drop on the elites, but unless my time table is messed up, the 52, 54, 56 were released before the 3805 and the 2500, and before hdmi and dvi were really feasible on receivers of these levels. Not an excuse, but it seems the way things work. Upgrades for the 2500 and the 3805, as well as the 54/56, will include things deemed necessary in the near future, but really only wish list stuff at this time.

In the end it's all about needs. At this time I don't need 3 component inputs. I like the sound of the 54 better than the 2500 or the 3805, and I spent some time with all 3 in the same room with the same speakers. I like the fact that it is THX certified. I like the fact that I can bi-amp my fronts, and that this amp was designed with that in mind (and it's simple procedure described in the manual). Though the 3805's soudnstage is wider, the pioneers seems to be deeper. The remote makes sense and can be read in direct sunlight (which my main room has a lot of.) All of these were more important to me than hooking up a game system. Add to that a power supply that weighs 15 pounds, 2x22,000 uf Capacitors, and I got an awesome sound!

 

[Xsound]

Man, have I turned into a Pioneer apologist?
I sound like a major homer - really not my intent. I could have been happy with any of the 3 receivers, and went back and forth on all 3. I joined this thread because I was pretty jacked that the reviewer seemed to assess the 2 receivers pretty much the same way I did.

 

[parkerbender]

to the guy who asked me about the warrantee on the last page: i got it from sunshine electronics in brooklyn, and i think it does, but if it doesnt, it was still half price, and from what i've seen, it only costs a couple hundred to send it in to the manufacturer, so, i'm not real worried.

 

[Hibbing]

That was a bad review? Huh? I notice he had some very minor gripes about soundstage and bass on a particular CD. Is this the receiver's fault or the CD's fault? He never really said.

I'm assuming you have the Pioneer and are now trying to justify your purchase by bashing other brands. It's human nature I guess. But, if your going to do it at least pick an actual bad review. This will tend to support the basis of your post title a little bit better.

Shinerman

No I don't have the Pioneer I have seperates but the review falls into line with what I heard with the 2500. The most foreshortened soundstaging I'd heard in years. Thought it was an atrocious AVR.

 

[Shinerman]

Thought it was an atrocious AVR.

Well, now we know. Don't buy the 2500, buy seperates like you.


Shinerman

 

[Hibbing]

Well, now we know. Don't buy the 2500, buy seperates like you.


Shinerman

Or a better receiver that doesn't truncate the soundstage. Lots of choices to make you happy!!!!!!

 

[Beegowl]

Separates

Or a better receiver that doesn't truncate the soundstage

Does a receiver create a soundstage? Only if one of the DSP programs is working, right? Wouldn't the source material and the speakers be the main creators of soundstaging? I mean, I don't know. I'm not that well versed in the physics of sound, especially in regards to the way electronics has an impact on sound, and lots of things defy common sense and are still true. It would seem to defy common sense, though, to expect the electronics, unless computer enhancing was at work, to create a soundstage if the signal is being interpreted with integrity. It seems to me that the way the source material was recorded, miked, etc., and the way the speakers interpret the sound would be the source of soundstaging. The guy who wrote a review saying that one receiver created a better soundstage would be an interesting interviewee.

 

[Hibbing]

Does a receiver create a soundstage? Only if one of the DSP programs is working, right? Wouldn't the source material and the speakers be the main creators of soundstaging? I mean, I don't know. I'm not that well versed in the physics of sound, especially in regards to the way electronics has an impact on sound, and lots of things defy common sense and are still true. It would seem to defy common sense, though, to expect the electronics, unless computer enhancing was at work, to create a soundstage if the signal is being interpreted with integrity. It seems to me that the way the source material was recorded, miked, etc., and the way the speakers interpret the sound would be the source of soundstaging. The guy who wrote a review saying that one receiver created a better soundstage would be an interesting interviewee.

No you're not that well versed.

 

[Beegowl]

That is true.

No you're not that well versed.

Verse me, then, that's why I read these.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I own a Denon receiver. Since the big purchase (after numerous glowing reviews of the 3805), I've decided to compare my unit to the other comparable jap units out there - trying not to believe everything in print. What I've found is that I am extremely impressed with the Yamaha units (1500, 2500, 5790 and 5890) and Pioneer Elite units (the higher end receivers), as well as the top two Marantz (8 and 9 series). What I've found is that most have extraordinary flexibility like the Denon, Yamaha, and Pioneer. The Marantz seems to be the most neutral of the four, but has the least flexibility (doesn't need all the internal parametric eq settings). I've also learned that flagship models like the HK AVR7300 is a bargain at $1360, and even Sherwood's Newcastle is a good buy. One other thing I've learned is that you can't get the soundstage or depth from a 7.1 receiver that you can dedicated amps. When you drop big bucks on a massive class A amplifier, you will hear a difference, no matter what another forum member says. You need to demo this yourself. Don't take my word for it. Different units favor different areas of the audio spectrum. A Pioneer Elite may favor a bass guitar, while the Marantz lacks the deepest bass. An RX-V may reproduce a flute much better than a Denon, while the Denon prefers the strings. You always compromise when making choices. No one receiver, amp, or speaker will make everyone happy. They all have their strengths, and you need to recognize them and how they relate to your listening preferences. We can all pick apart each others equipment, but it gets us nowhere. If all this forum does is slam others equipment, then eventually no one will trust others comments. As soon as we become humble about our equipment and point out the weaknesses of what we own, we can direct others what to avoid and what to look for. Anyone who knows me knows that Polk speakers in general need power, and I never recommend what I own unless you have a higher end, high current receiver or amp. And even then, I don't recommend them over others I know little about. This is THE best forum in the world on audio. Lets help to make it even better for the hundreds of others who read our threads and not jump to the substandard forums out there. Just take a look at the number of hits each thread gets. It's amazing.

 

[Shinerman]

Or a better receiver that doesn't truncate the soundstage. Lots of choices to make you happy!!!!!!

I have never been convinced that a receiver can have an effect on soundstage but one thing I do know for sure is that speakers have a far far greater effect on soundstage.

So why did you not just say, "I feel this about the 2500". Why just randomly post a link to a fairly glowing article on the 2500 and then falsely say it was a bad review. If you read the article you posted again I think you will find it is a good review. I don't have a problem with people giving "their" negative reviews of a product but don't mislabel a review as bad when is was good. To me that shows an ulterior motive on your part. Who knows? So it boils down to you coming to the exact same conclusion as the reviewer. Any "original" thoughts about what you did not like about the Yammie? After all you did call it "an atrocious AVR".

Shinerman