B&W 802d

[flyboylr45]

Yes you did. Look at my previous post and the question I asked you. You then listed those.

Either way, I will now be able to enjoy my modern art, not looking good speakers that don't sound good, since you have given me permission to. Thanks.

 

[haraldo]

Yes you did. Look at my previous post and the question I asked you. You then listed those.

Either way, I will now be able to enjoy my modern art, not looking good speakers that don't sound good, since you have given me permission to. Thanks.

I hereby give you permission to listen to music

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Especially not the bass of B&W

Or Revel, KEF, Focal (except Grande Utopia which has a built-in 18" sub), Dynaudio, or any other tower that does not have a "built-in sub" (like RBH T2 and above).

A while back after I had auditioned B&W 800D, Salon2, Orion, and owned Definitive BP7000SC (14" built-in sub), I auditioned the RBH T2, which has a real subwoofer as part of their "modular tower". Man, I was utterly enamored by the T2's bass.

No other tower from any other company has the kind of bass that matches the T2 (or great subs) -- not Revel, B&W, KEF, Definitive, etc.

 

[haraldo]

Or Revel, KEF, Focal (except Grande Utopia which has a built-in 18" sub), Dynaudio, or any other tower that does not have a "built-in sub" (like RBH T2 and above).

A while back after I had auditioned B&W 800D, Salon2, Orion, and owned Definitive BP7000SC (14" built-in sub), I auditioned the RBH T2, which has a real subwoofer as part of their "modular tower". Man, I was utterly enamored by the T2's bass.

No other tower from any other company has the kind of bass that matches the T2 (or great subs) -- not Revel, B&W, KEF, Definitive, etc.

maybe the top-of-the-line speakers from PMC may be in the same league......

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Some can. The best bass that I've ever heard from a pair of speakers were Zu Dominance. It was crazy and way outperforming most subwoofers. I would love to see some power compression test measurements on them. To be fair, it is pretty expensive.

Well, it has a big built-in 15" subwoofer, so I'm not surprised.

I should have made it clear that I was talking about towers that do NOT have big built-in subwoofers.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's not the point..... I have speakers that's not claimed to go to the deep end, and I don't promote them as that.....
But to get 802D's and cross them at 80Hz, shows that the bass section is not well designed by B&W !

The 802 Diamond’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +2.82/–2.79 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 31 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 27 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 3.67 ohms at 98 Hz and a phase angle of –54.11 degrees at 49 Hz.

B&W 802 Diamond Speaker System HT Labs Measures | Sound & Vision

So the 802D2 can go down to 27Hz @ -6dB, which is great for speakers.

Plenty of people XO the 802D2 @ 40Hz.

A lot of people don't even think the 802D2 needs subwoofers. It's a personal preference.

But I don't want to "maximize" the bass usage on any of my speakers because I have subwoofers.

So I XO my 802D2, Salon2, Orion3, Phil3, etc., all at 80Hz.

That doesn't mean these speakers have "bad" bass design just because I set my XO @ 80Hz. That's just my personal preference. I don't want to even stress out my speakers. I have subwoofers for that.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

maybe the top-of-the-line speakers from PMC may be in the same league......

Maybe in the same league as smaller great subs.

But same league as the bigger flagship subs from Funk, Seaton, PSA, Rythmik, SVS?

I think the point is, unless the speaker has a great accurate built-in subwoofer, it's not going to be able to output bass in quality or quantity as the great dedicated subs big and small.

 

[haraldo]

Maybe in the same league as smaller great subs.

But same league as flagship subs from Funk, Seaton, PSA, Rythmik, SVS?

Never heard 'em so I can't say....
The bass sections of their towers are the same as their transmission loaded passive subs, claimed to have 'out of this world' performance in the bass

...Maybe you should add Kreisel Sound to the list too

 

[English210]

I would suggest a part of the difference is that the placement of a sub in any given room for 'best' bass response (yeah, I know, 'best' isn't the 'best' word to use...), is not likely to be the best placement of a main speaker (for mids/highs) for the other elements of sound, like imaging, soundstage, etc. So while there are plenty of speakers that CAN get down in the depths, the placement in room to get the deepest response would require too much compromise in the placement for best results in other areas. Imagine having to jam that Marlan head into the corner, instead of having it out in the room where it can visually enjoyed, and do it's sound-thing to it's best ability!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The bass sections of their towers are the same as their transmission loaded passive subs, claimed to have 'out of this world' performance in the bass

Then I would agree that they are probably in the same league since these towers have built-in subs, especially if these built-in subs can be ACTIVELY powered by external amps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would suggest a part of the difference is that the placement of a sub in any given room for 'best' bass response (yeah, I know, 'best' isn't the 'best' word to use...), is not likely to be the best placement of a main speaker (for mids/highs) for the other elements of sound, like imaging, soundstage, etc. So while there are plenty of speakers that CAN get down in the depths, the placement in room to get the deepest response would require too much compromise in the placement for best results in other areas. Imagine having to jam that Marlan head into the corner, instead of having it out in the room where it can visually enjoyed, and do it's sound-thing to it's best ability!!

True.

Also, in my experience, bass that is EQ usually sounds a lot better and smoother than bass that is NOT EQ. I'm sure there are always room for exception, but usually sub EQ is better than not IMO.

With dedicated subs or towers that have subs that can be EQ, you can EQ the bass (like Audyssey XT32 dual Sub EQ DEQ).

But you usually can't EQ the bass portion of most towers and make it sound great because it may adversely affect the midrange and treble as well. Or maybe I just don't know how.

 

[flyboylr45]

Haraldo, out of curiosity, what speakers are you using and what does your system consist of?

 

[haraldo]

Haraldo, out of curiosity, what speakers are you using and what does your system consist of?

This has no relevance to the thread.... last time I had a good listen was with a full stack of Adyton gear
I use squeezebox classic+touch+apple tv, electronics from Benchmark and Krell, and speakers from Duntech and Meadowlark
A very old picture.....

And then the regular sessions with Adyton

 

[flyboylr45]

A little relevance. I would have assumed from your post that the speakers you have would not need a subwoofer. I was just curious. I'm guessing that the ones pictures dig down deeper than the 802s, right?

 

[haraldo]

A little relevance. I would have assumed from your post that the speakers you have would not need a subwoofer. I was just curious. I'm guessing that the ones pictures dig down deeper than the 802s, right?

ha ha.... you should get yourself a life
To me I see you as the utter personalization of stupid American

 

[haraldo]

This is by the way, the other tig I'm referring to, do you think they dig deep enough? Flat in-room response to 8Hz
They kill the B&W+ any SVS subs probably by a lightyear.....

 

[Hocky]

This is by the way, the other tig I'm referring to, do you think they dig deep enough? Flat in-room response to 8Hz
They kill the B&W+ any SVS subs probably by a lightyear.....

While I bet they sound pretty good, they're still using external subwoofers....

 

[haraldo]

While I bet they sound pretty good, they're still using external subwoofers....

Well yes, they have to, as the small 4" fullranges does not go very much below 80Hz.... I auditioned most all speakers on the market over here... and these are certainly at the top of the pack..... even better than the B&W 802d

Flyboy, eat your heart out

 

[Hocky]

Of all the combos that I've heard, it has been only the line array stuff that has really gotten me interested beyond what I have. Some of them are pretty awesome.

 

[haraldo]

Hocky..... These are just crazy good, it's so good that you assume you're listening to another mastering.... I was listening to Pink Floyd, The Wall through these, and thought this was an absolutely different hirez mastering, but not...... the voices was so shockingly more alive than anything I ever heard......

Maybe it's even too alive, better than in real life, or what?

You have to experience this in order to believe it..... crazy crazy good stuff

One problem is that soundstage gets elevated.... very tall.... seems like Roger Waters may have a 2 feet tall mouth