Axiom Audio LFR1100 Tower Loudspeaker Preview

[billy p]

When you use smoothed graphs like Axiom does at 120db it makes it look really nice.

Billy the only way to truely know if the Ascends sound better than the Axioms is too stick them on a 90ft poll......oh wait thats subwoofers

Theres just not enough tweeters for the Ascends to sound.....similarly good

You wasted alot of money you could have saved about $400, you could have got a speaker with no bracing, crappy crossovers, stamped baskets, dated cabinet design, comb filtering, horrible off axis response, midrange that breaks up, impedance dips that shuts down amps and receivers ect....... Hope I didn't miss anything

Yeah I didn't have a 90ft pole...so I bought both and listened for myself....
Since you didn't mention it..you did forget one thing....real wood veneer only come at premium prices likely making the 80's as or more expensive than my Sierras.....

 

[ack_bak]

I'm confused by what Axiom does....

If you look at some other manufacturers, like Dynaudio and Vienna Acoustics, they make specific drivers for all their different products and if you go upscale you get better and better quality drivers, so by adding money to your shopping basket there is no reason to doubt that what you get is higher quality....

Axiom just seem to add more drivers as you go upscale, so the speakers may play louder, with an increased possibility of interference between drivers and all the other aspects that may occur, There is no way that I can see any way that going up in price here provides you higher quality, just adding quantity...

Wouldn't it be better with 4 or 5 really high quality drivers, rather than 11 mediocre quality drivers of the same style and quality that they utilize in their cheaper products. Playing louder DOES NOT EQUAL better quality, it's the same quality, just more of it at higher SPL

If you ever have time to burn you can read this thread to learn more about Axiom here:
Any thoughts on axiom audio speakers? - AVS Forum

Dannie Ritchie provides some measurements in the thread, and measurements of their VP150 center. You can see the effects of the multiple tweeters, and their non traditional placement via the off-axis measurements. I believe it. I have heard the VP150 and was very underwhelmed. Funny enough, Axiom did come out with a more traditional horizontal center in their VP160 which would be the one I would consider buying if I were buying Axiom.

Danny does touch on the cheaper components, as well as bracing in the thread and you can see Axiom's response.

I don't think Axiom is a bad company. They clearly offer some decent speakers at good prices at the lower end. But I would probably look elsewhere once you start spending more than $1K.

I have heard the M80 speakers and was not that impressed. They are definitely "bright".

For these new spearkers, I am still trying to understand how the DSP amp works with all these drivers and tweeters, and how this speaker will sound. I would like to hear one, but this seems like it could be a nightmare for people who don't have the proper placement for these speakers. I have noticed this with the Deftech bipolar speakers, that placement is everything to get the best sound from them as your mains. I do like the bipolar surround speakers and have several pairs now that I am enjoying, but as mains?

And clearly when you start talking $4K for speakers, I would like to think you are getting quality parts, and a well braced cabinet. That remains to be seen with these speakers.

 

[cschang]

Here is what you said...
"Well I suppose at a tad over $1900 they should sound good. Then a $700 tweeter upgrade? If the tweeter is that good they should offer it as standard equipment".

I'll say this about measurements and tweeter upgrade...

First, we all know that judging on measurements alone is not a smart thing to do.

The standard tweeter(NrT)is excellent in its own right.

The upgrade to the RAAL tweeter may not be worth it to some or many for that matter, but the difference is very audible as many that have experienced a RAAL tweeter have said. I don't own a speaker with a RAAL, but my next speaker will at least have something like it...so much detail without any "brightness". It is very hard to comprehend until you hear it. My first time was three weeks ago...and I am hooked.

The reason the RAAL is not standard....well, the cost. It would put the speaker out of reach for many. Also, the "standard" speaker is great as is.

CMT-340 vs M60...pfft...no contest if you are using a subwoofer. If no subwoofer, then I can see how someone would rather have the M60.

 

[Jasper78]

I'm confused by what Axiom does....

If you look at some other manufacturers, like Dynaudio and Vienna Acoustics, they make specific drivers for all their different products and if you go upscale you get better and better quality drivers, so by adding money to your shopping basket there is no reason to doubt that what you get is higher quality...

The point, I suppose, is that there is still reason to doubt that. As when you move up the money ladder to more expensive receivers or amps -- you might get more "audiophile grade components" (as the marketing departments like to call it), but then you're still not sure if your $1500 receiver sounds all that different from the $500 receiver you had.

Axiom doesn't have "lines" of different speaker products. (At least, not until very recently.) They use the drivers they do because they don't think a fancier driver will make their speakers sound better -- and so they're not making us pay for it. Now, perhaps they're wrong. I don't know nearly enough about building speakers to argue one way or the other.

But, then, that's true for a good many folks wandering these boards, though some might be less willing to admit it. Thankfully, we still have our common sense and our own ears. We could always listen to a speaker, from Axiom or any other company out there, and if we don't like it -- or if we don't think it's worth the asking price -- we move on.

If you're wondering: I've had Axiom M22s since 2004 and, especially considering what they cost me, I've been pretty damn happy with them. Next year or the one after that, I'm looking forward to listening to some of those nice fancy drivers Dynaudio, or KEF, or Revel use. And after I've bought them, I'll tell myself that the difference is "night and day." But, hopefully, you'll know better.

 

[ack_bak]

The point, I suppose, is that there is still reason to doubt that. As when you move up the money ladder to more expensive receivers or amps -- you might get more "audiophile grade components" (as the marketing departments like to call it), but then you're still not sure if your $1500 receiver sounds all that different from the $500 receiver you had.

Axiom doesn't have "lines" of different speaker products. (At least, not until very recently.) They use the drivers they do because they don't think a fancier driver will make their speakers sound better -- and so they're not making us pay for it. Now, perhaps they're wrong. I don't know nearly enough about building speakers to argue one way or the other.

But, then, that's true for a good many folks wandering these boards, though some might be less willing to admit it. Thankfully, we still have our common sense and our own ears. We could always listen to a speaker, from Axiom or any other company out there, and if we don't like it -- or if we don't think it's worth the asking price -- we move on.

If you're wondering: I've had Axiom M22s since 2004 and, especially considering what they cost me, I've been pretty damn happy with them. Next year or the one after that, I'm looking forward to listening to some of those nice fancy drivers Dynaudio, or KEF, or Revel use. And after I've bought them, I'll tell myself that the difference is "night and day." But, hopefully, you'll know better.

There is no free lunch in anything in life, including speakers. At least that has been my experience. Budget aside, I don't agree at all that better parts does not equate to better sound. I have experienced it first hand when I have heard the higher end speakers from companies such as RBH, Triad, Paradigm, Klipsch, etc. Obviously Axiom's (and other companies) business model is to price their speakers at a certain price point, but there are going to be tradeoffs getting there and that will ultimately affect things such as crossovers, tweeter, woofers, cabinets, etc. A perfect example for me is when I listened to some of the cheaper Klipsch speakers compared to their THX series. It was a massive difference in sound IMHO. Two totally different sounding horn loaded speakers. But the price was very different too

I understand why Axiom made some of the decisions they made. I think the real value with Axiom is in their cheaper line of speakers, but once you start playing in the $1500-4000 range, there is some great competition out there that does appear to use better components. They just use fewer drivers and tweeters to get there

I think this is the point haraldo was making and I tend to agree with. That as you get to certain price points, customers are going to expect higher levels of quality parts while Axiom seems to want to just sell you more tweeters and woofers. I guess we will find out how they stack up against some other $4K or so speakers. Assuming we get an actual fair review.

 

[gtpsuper24]

Though I would show just how cheap Axioms drivers are and compare them to a speaker costing $50.00-$70.00 cheaper than the Axiom M2.

Now how come brand X can offer a die-cast basket with XBL2 tech and Splitgap for less than Axiom can offer a cheap stamped basket?

This quote from Andrew from Axiom:

"The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets (LIKE US HERE AT AXIOM) that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option. "

For reference I added the (like us here at Axiom) bit

 

[haraldo]

I think this is the point haraldo was making and I tend to agree with. That as you get to certain price points, customers are going to expect higher levels of quality parts while Axiom seems to want to just sell you more tweeters and woofers. I guess we will find out how they stack up against some other $4K or so speakers. Assuming we get an actual fair review.

Exactly!

It would be nice to see some actual measurements of these resonances...

Richard Vandersteen vent to extreme measures in his model 7 to make drivers perfect, now we're talking totally another ballpark and prices in an other league, but he also uses compound diaphragms with balsa and carbon fibre and non-resonating stuff everywhere..... result is the cleanest waterfall response I ever seen and I can only imagine how they perform....

When Axiom don't manage to upgrade drivers in their upscale speakers then it's simply because they can't do any better....

That doesn't mean their bookshelf speakers are bad, don't get me wrong guys.... I would even like to audition and perhaps even purchase the M22's.... but seriously, what they're doing here is very weird....

 

[gtpsuper24]

When Axiom don't manage to upgrade drivers in their upscale speakers then it's simply because they can't do any better....

That doesn't mean their bookshelf speakers are bad, don't get me wrong guys.... I would even like to audition and perhaps even purchase the M22's.... but seriously, what they're doing here is very weird....

The M22's aren't bad but they are not $1,000 bookshelf killer like Axiom lets on. They have almost zero output below 100-120hrz. I used those as my mains and VP150 as center and theres not midbass or fullness to them. Subwoofers are SVS's older PCi series which is not great at midbass, so there always seemed like a big empty space between 70-100hrz.

 

[billy p]

Just had another Axiomite come over and sample my Sierras and FW sub....he has the Epic grand master system which uses the 22's as main and the ep 500. Lets just say he was blown away by my sub and loved the Sierras....

I don't think he'll be buying the M80's after today....

 

[cschang]

Just had another Axiomite come over and sample my Sierras and FW sub....he has the Epic grand master system which uses the 22's as main and the ep 500. Lets just say he was blown away by my sub and loved the Sierras....

I don't think he'll be buying the M80's after today....

The Sierra-1's or the Sierra Towers?

 

[billy p]

The Sierra-1's or the Sierra Towers?

lol....still getting used to my new laptop.....

At least here I have a picture & had them listed it my sig....

 

[TLS Guy]

If you ever have time to burn you can read this thread to learn more about Axiom here:
Any thoughts on axiom audio speakers? - AVS Forum

Dannie Ritchie provides some measurements in the thread, and measurements of their VP150 center. You can see the effects of the multiple tweeters, and their non traditional placement via the off-axis measurements. I believe it. I have heard the VP150 and was very underwhelmed. Funny enough, Axiom did come out with a more traditional horizontal center in their VP160 which would be the one I would consider buying if I were buying Axiom.

Danny does touch on the cheaper components, as well as bracing in the thread and you can see Axiom's response.

I don't think Axiom is a bad company. They clearly offer some decent speakers at good prices at the lower end. But I would probably look elsewhere once you start spending more than $1K.

I have heard the M80 speakers and was not that impressed. They are definitely "bright".

For these new spearkers, I am still trying to understand how the DSP amp works with all these drivers and tweeters, and how this speaker will sound. I would like to hear one, but this seems like it could be a nightmare for people who don't have the proper placement for these speakers. I have noticed this with the Deftech bipolar speakers, that placement is everything to get the best sound from them as your mains. I do like the bipolar surround speakers and have several pairs now that I am enjoying, but as mains?

And clearly when you start talking $4K for speakers, I would like to think you are getting quality parts, and a well braced cabinet. That remains to be seen with these speakers.

Basically the way Axiom go about putting a speaker together they are "white van", or as close as makes no difference.

 

[gene]

Basically the way Axiom go about putting a speaker together they are "white van", or as close as makes no difference.

While I think it's great everyone is sharing their opinion on the new Axiom speaker, please let's refrain from bashing and trashing their company.

I've had the unfortunate pleasure of being solicited by and hearing many White Van speakers over the years and I can comfortably tell you Axiom speakers have nothing in common with them. While some may not agree with all of Axiom's claims or product design choices, they are a reputable company that stands behind their products and services. Axiom doesn't pressure you to buy or threaten to fight you like White Van thugs do when you decide NOT to buy the trash they are peddling on you.

Axiom has established a loyal fan base and have been successful at satisfying their customer needs for 30+ years. I am hopeful to be able to demo these new speakers in the near future and perhaps write up a formal review or at least a listening experience to share with those interested in this new product.

 

[adwilk]

Basically the way Axiom go about putting a speaker together they are "white van", or as close as makes no difference.

Thats a ridiculous statement from a credible AH member.

Seriously... Have you ever even heard anything they make?

I'm in the process of moving halfway back across the country and have most of my gear already packed up...

I have a pair of the Axiom M3 V2's hooked up just to keep the audio guy in me happy for a few days and I find them really enjoyable to listen to and I keep turning them up looking for something wrong with them. They're one of the best bookshelves under a grand that I've owned. The White Van analogy couldn't be more off base.

 

[GranteedEV]

Axiom might be a cheap company that thinks your HT needs to be 90 foot in the air for their subwoofers, but white van??



Their speakers are probably better than 95% of people I know have heard. Mid-Fi, sure, and probably flawed enough that TLS Guy isn't willing to live with them, but let's not act like they're out there selling garbage. I'd rather have an Axiom than, say, a B&W offering in the same price range, 10/10 times.

 

[adwilk]

I'd rather have an Axiom than, say, a B&W offering in the same price range.

No question whatsoever. I completely agree.

 

[ack_bak]

Axiom might be a cheap company that thinks your HT needs to be 90 foot in the air for their subwoofers, but white van??



Their speakers are probably better than 95% of people I know have heard. Mid-Fi, sure, and probably flawed enough that TLS Guy isn't willing to live with them, but let's not act like they're out there selling garbage. I'd rather have an Axiom than, say, a B&W offering in the same price range.

Have you ever actually listened to the VP150 center and sat off axis? What about the VP180? It is a flawed design. And I don't really find speakers (M80 + VP180) that cost roughly $2200 in their base configuration to be "cheap".

I personally don't get the hype for the M80's. I was expecting alot more when I heard them vs some of the reviews I read. And the new speakers are going to cost you almost $4k for the pair and another $750 for the VP180, which I can only assume, will be the matching center. That is not cheap. There are some highly regarded speakers in this price range.

I think the reference TLS made to White Van speakers went right over the head of many here. Many white can speakers look impressive to a layman. They typically have lots of drivers/tweeters and look expensive and impressive.

Sound familiar....

 

[adwilk]

Just the fact that they're "reviewable" puts them out of the White Van category. Plain and simple.

White van is the absolute garbage of the industry and Axiom is not that company.

There are are several very happy Axiom owners in serious audio circles. Anything White Van will never claim that.

 

[adwilk]

Have you ever actually listened to the VP150 center and sat off axis? What about the VP180? It is a flawed design.

Almost every center channel in that price range is flawed.

Lets at least see what these probably overpriced beasts sound like before we completely condemn them.

 

[GranteedEV]

Have you ever actually listened to the VP150 center and sat off axis? What about the VP180? It is a flawed design.

I never said they weren't. But there's other flawed designs out there that people happily gulp up and then proceed ridicule Axiom. Yes Axiom's center speakers are a mess but I was specifically referring to their bookshelves and towers (and their recent WTMW center speaker). Even their sub-par subs, a poor value, could possibly outperform a lot of "speaker company" commercial subs out there that people end up buying. There's a LOT of crap out there, and on that scale axiom's not really too far down. They're decidedly mediocre. They've got a sound that they sell, and they make a profit doing it. That's really no different from B&W, Polk, Klipsch, etc. The only difference is they're shackled by being ID, where the competition at the price point is probably a bit more fierce with stuff like Ascend/Philharmonic/Salk etc at the price point. Put them in best buy and you'd all be like "Axiom makes okay speakers, you can do better though".

And I don't really find speakers (M80 + VP180) that cost roughly $2200 in their base configuration to be "cheap".

I meant they are cheap with regards to engineering choices. Though in all fairness, you might see most of the same cost cutting maneuvres at these price points from reputable companies like KEF.

In fact it's funny. Recently one of the most raved about speakers has been the KEF Q900.

Here's a list of bad things it does

- Giant 8" aluminum cone breaks up measurably in frequency response 4khz - 8khz - no notch filter in sight
- Sub-par box construction
- 2.5 way design despite coaxial driver which would prefer a high pass filter
- Iron core inductors, electrolytic caps, etc

Yet this board's conclusion is that KEF is awesome and Axiom sucks. I'm not saying the speakers are equal, but they're not on different tiers either. KEF probably has the better driver but beyond that they made a lot of the same criticizable engineering choices. The difference is that one is a highly scrutinized ID company and the other is a traditional, reputable B&M brand.

Different standards much?

I personally don't get the hype for the M80's. I was expecting alot more when I heard them vs some of the reviews I read. And the new speakers are going to cost you almost $4k for the pair and another $750 for the VP180, which I can only assume, will be the matching center.

So? I'm not dying for a pair of M80s either. There's way better speakers out there for the money for anyone willing to do their research. That doesn't mean that there aren't significantly worse speakers out there.

That is not cheap. There are some highly regarded speakers in this price range.

Of course there are. There are tons of speakers out there. I'd wager a large majority of them are worse than axiom. No that doesn't make axiom great, but it does have its implications.

I think the reference TLS made to White Van speakers went right over the head of many here. Many white can speakers look impressive to a layman. They typically have lots of drivers/tweeters and look expensive and impressive.

Sound familiar....

So having unusual amounts of drivers is an instant qualifier for white van? In that case I am sure speakers like the Dynaudio Temptation, RBH T3/R, Legacy Whisper must qualify.