MinusTheBear Audioholic Ninja Aug 20, 2006 3,559 0 113 Mar 18, 2012 #41 gtpsuper24 said: You also get to "upgrade" the drivers and tweeters in the new tower from the cheap stamped baskets to die cast baskets. Customize Yours, under Audio Jewerly. $40 for the tweeters, $120 for the woofers and another $80 for Bi Wire/Bi Amp Inputs. All this in not included in the $3,720.00 price. But.......Axiom claims there is no SQ difference in upgrading Andrew from Axiom: "The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option." "I would wager that very few people have ever performed a controlled comparison of the two. It's pretty much impossible if you don't build drivers in-house and have an anechoic chamber to precisely match the drivers being compared. The test then needs to be performed blind, precisely level matched, and repeated multiple times to compensate for different speaker positions." Click to expand... There are actual engineering principles at hand which can make them superior to stamped versions. Perhaps with their own driver technology they use there is no difference or they just don't know how to design a driver where a cast-basket is beneficial. I don't think axiom understands what audio jewelry really means. Audio jewelry refers to aesthetic accessory upgrades like cables, terminations, outriggers, grilles and crap like that. Components that make up a driver is NOT audio jewelry.
gtpsuper24 said: You also get to "upgrade" the drivers and tweeters in the new tower from the cheap stamped baskets to die cast baskets. Customize Yours, under Audio Jewerly. $40 for the tweeters, $120 for the woofers and another $80 for Bi Wire/Bi Amp Inputs. All this in not included in the $3,720.00 price. But.......Axiom claims there is no SQ difference in upgrading Andrew from Axiom: "The reasoning for a die-cast option for the other drivers is more perception than anything else. Some manufacturers use very thin-walled stamped steel woofer baskets that can resonate at some frequencies. However, the standard Axiom baskets are made from very heavy gauge steel and do not "ring". You can expect identical performance from either the standard or die-cast option." "I would wager that very few people have ever performed a controlled comparison of the two. It's pretty much impossible if you don't build drivers in-house and have an anechoic chamber to precisely match the drivers being compared. The test then needs to be performed blind, precisely level matched, and repeated multiple times to compensate for different speaker positions." Click to expand... There are actual engineering principles at hand which can make them superior to stamped versions. Perhaps with their own driver technology they use there is no difference or they just don't know how to design a driver where a cast-basket is beneficial. I don't think axiom understands what audio jewelry really means. Audio jewelry refers to aesthetic accessory upgrades like cables, terminations, outriggers, grilles and crap like that. Components that make up a driver is NOT audio jewelry.
B bogrod Junior Audioholic Jun 23, 2009 86 0 8 Mar 18, 2012 #42 gtpsuper24 said: Andrew from Axiom: "The test then needs to be performed blind, precisely level matched, and repeated multiple times to compensate for different speaker positions." Click to expand... Is this going to be Axiom's version of a "controlled test"?
gtpsuper24 said: Andrew from Axiom: "The test then needs to be performed blind, precisely level matched, and repeated multiple times to compensate for different speaker positions." Click to expand... Is this going to be Axiom's version of a "controlled test"?
3db Audioholic Slumlord Sep 7, 2002 16,484 0 113 65 Ottawa Canada Mar 19, 2012 #43 DS-21 said: Fact remains, bipoles started in Canada, and every major Canadian speaker firm was doing one for a while. Moreover, DefTech didn't just take the bipole idea, they ripped off Mirage's industrial design as well. Click to expand... Bipoles may originated in Canada but who cares? Very few Canadian manufacturers chose this path so I can not comprehend your conclusion for the love affair of Canadians with bipoles. Based on your logic Americans love throwing nukes around and have no problem with it but like the analogy of bipoles, that just isn't true. I've never been a fan of Def Tech nor of the Mirage bipoles for that matter. Mirage used to make really good speakers in thr early 80s having auditoned a pair of SM-3s. The source was an Oracle turntable with a Delphi Tone arm being amplified by a Yamaha 100wx2 integrated amp. It was one of the sweetest sounds I've heard back then. Reactions: GO-NAD!
DS-21 said: Fact remains, bipoles started in Canada, and every major Canadian speaker firm was doing one for a while. Moreover, DefTech didn't just take the bipole idea, they ripped off Mirage's industrial design as well. Click to expand... Bipoles may originated in Canada but who cares? Very few Canadian manufacturers chose this path so I can not comprehend your conclusion for the love affair of Canadians with bipoles. Based on your logic Americans love throwing nukes around and have no problem with it but like the analogy of bipoles, that just isn't true. I've never been a fan of Def Tech nor of the Mirage bipoles for that matter. Mirage used to make really good speakers in thr early 80s having auditoned a pair of SM-3s. The source was an Oracle turntable with a Delphi Tone arm being amplified by a Yamaha 100wx2 integrated amp. It was one of the sweetest sounds I've heard back then.
billy p Audioholic Ninja Apr 14, 2006 3,698 0 113 Mar 19, 2012 #44 Even the engineers at API parent company of Mirage didn't see eye to eye on omnidirectional designs because both Energy & Athena used a more traditional means for building their speakers. I'd bet Andew Welker was part of the Mirage group of engineers....?
Even the engineers at API parent company of Mirage didn't see eye to eye on omnidirectional designs because both Energy & Athena used a more traditional means for building their speakers. I'd bet Andew Welker was part of the Mirage group of engineers....?
MinusTheBear Audioholic Ninja Aug 20, 2006 3,559 0 113 Mar 19, 2012 #45 billy p said: Even the engineers at API parent company of Mirage didn't see eye to eye on omnidirectional designs because both Energy & Athena used a more traditional means for building their speakers. I'd bet Andew Welker was part of the Mirage group of engineers....? Click to expand... He was one of the lead engineers of Mirage under Ian Paisley (API). I believe he was also one of the lead design engineers on a number of Energy products under Klipsch Group Inc after they soon destroyed the Mirage brand after acquiring API. Reactions: billy p
billy p said: Even the engineers at API parent company of Mirage didn't see eye to eye on omnidirectional designs because both Energy & Athena used a more traditional means for building their speakers. I'd bet Andew Welker was part of the Mirage group of engineers....? Click to expand... He was one of the lead engineers of Mirage under Ian Paisley (API). I believe he was also one of the lead design engineers on a number of Energy products under Klipsch Group Inc after they soon destroyed the Mirage brand after acquiring API.
C cschang Audioholic Chief Mar 22, 2003 770 0 43 Mar 19, 2012 #46 A blurb on the speaker at the SoundStage site: Axiom Debuts "Omnidirectional Linear Field Radiating" Speaker Line Reactions: gene
A blurb on the speaker at the SoundStage site: Axiom Debuts "Omnidirectional Linear Field Radiating" Speaker Line
C cschang Audioholic Chief Mar 22, 2003 770 0 43 Mar 19, 2012 #48 Wid said: Howdy Curtis Click to expand... Hey Wid! How are you?
billy p Audioholic Ninja Apr 14, 2006 3,698 0 113 Mar 19, 2012 #50 Wid said: Doing good, long time no see my friend. Click to expand... Probally becuase you spend to much time at the axiom forum... Btw...I'd take the Sierra Towers all night long vs. the m80's.... But what would I know since I own products from both mfgs....fwiw I have another Axiomite coming over this week to demo them..... Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
Wid said: Doing good, long time no see my friend. Click to expand... Probally becuase you spend to much time at the axiom forum... Btw...I'd take the Sierra Towers all night long vs. the m80's.... But what would I know since I own products from both mfgs....fwiw I have another Axiomite coming over this week to demo them.....
C cschang Audioholic Chief Mar 22, 2003 770 0 43 Mar 19, 2012 #51 Wid said: Doing good, long time no see my friend. Click to expand... Yeah...I have not been the Axiom forum in a long time! billy p said: Probally becuase you spend to much time at the axiom forum... Btw...I'd take the Sierra Towers all night long vs. the m80's.... But what would I know since I own products from both mfgs....fwiw I have another Axiomite coming over this week to demo them..... Click to expand... I'm guessing you two know each other.
Wid said: Doing good, long time no see my friend. Click to expand... Yeah...I have not been the Axiom forum in a long time! billy p said: Probally becuase you spend to much time at the axiom forum... Btw...I'd take the Sierra Towers all night long vs. the m80's.... But what would I know since I own products from both mfgs....fwiw I have another Axiomite coming over this week to demo them..... Click to expand... I'm guessing you two know each other.
billy p Audioholic Ninja Apr 14, 2006 3,698 0 113 Mar 20, 2012 #52 cschang said: I'm guessing you two know each other. Click to expand... No but I read some of this recent comments regarding the Ascends...typical Axiom fanboy reaction...claiming the 80's measure flatter than Ascends and for 1900.00 they better sound good?. Hey Wid...tell any of our buddies they'd be welcomed to bring 60 & 80's over to my place....
cschang said: I'm guessing you two know each other. Click to expand... No but I read some of this recent comments regarding the Ascends...typical Axiom fanboy reaction...claiming the 80's measure flatter than Ascends and for 1900.00 they better sound good?. Hey Wid...tell any of our buddies they'd be welcomed to bring 60 & 80's over to my place....
Wid Audioholic Oct 11, 2005 132 0 0 Mar 20, 2012 #53 No fan boy. I was just going by what I saw in the graphs and printed specs. When my sister was looking for a theater set up she gave me the go to by the speakers. I ended up getting her a set of Accend 340s for the three fronts and HTM 200s for the rears. For a sub I went with eD. Plus; I've owned more Hsu products than Axiom. I could be a Hsu fan boy I guess. If I were such a fan boy that would have never happened.
No fan boy. I was just going by what I saw in the graphs and printed specs. When my sister was looking for a theater set up she gave me the go to by the speakers. I ended up getting her a set of Accend 340s for the three fronts and HTM 200s for the rears. For a sub I went with eD. Plus; I've owned more Hsu products than Axiom. I could be a Hsu fan boy I guess. If I were such a fan boy that would have never happened.
billy p Audioholic Ninja Apr 14, 2006 3,698 0 113 Mar 20, 2012 #54 Wid said: No fan boy. I was just going by what I saw in the graphs and printed specs. When my sister was looking for a theater set up she gave me the go to by the speakers. I ended up getting her a set of Accend 340s for the three fronts and HTM 200s for the rears. For a sub I went with eD. Plus; I've owned more Hsu products than Axiom. I could be a Hsu fan boy I guess. If I were such a fan boy that would have never happened. Click to expand... Here is what you said... "Well I suppose at a tad over $1900 they should sound good. Then a $700 tweeter upgrade? If the tweeter is that good they should offer it as standard equipment". And I read the part when you compared the 340 to your 80's and you also claimed that the 340 couldn't hold a candle to the m160.....whatever dude....Like I said open invite for any Axiom owner to come over....
Wid said: No fan boy. I was just going by what I saw in the graphs and printed specs. When my sister was looking for a theater set up she gave me the go to by the speakers. I ended up getting her a set of Accend 340s for the three fronts and HTM 200s for the rears. For a sub I went with eD. Plus; I've owned more Hsu products than Axiom. I could be a Hsu fan boy I guess. If I were such a fan boy that would have never happened. Click to expand... Here is what you said... "Well I suppose at a tad over $1900 they should sound good. Then a $700 tweeter upgrade? If the tweeter is that good they should offer it as standard equipment". And I read the part when you compared the 340 to your 80's and you also claimed that the 340 couldn't hold a candle to the m160.....whatever dude....Like I said open invite for any Axiom owner to come over....
Wid Audioholic Oct 11, 2005 132 0 0 Mar 20, 2012 #55 I did say that and it's true and so did my sister, the owner of the speakers. But I never said they sound better than the Accend towers, I've never heard them. I really don't care whose is bigger, better, prettier or whatever. Buy what you like and have fun with it. We have two different opinions, is that so odd with audio? I never disrespected you or Accend like you are doing me, I truely see no need. By the way, that was in response to someone else on the Axiom forum that said the same thing about the new Axiom speaker, if ya didn't catch it, that was a little tongue and cheek.
I did say that and it's true and so did my sister, the owner of the speakers. But I never said they sound better than the Accend towers, I've never heard them. I really don't care whose is bigger, better, prettier or whatever. Buy what you like and have fun with it. We have two different opinions, is that so odd with audio? I never disrespected you or Accend like you are doing me, I truely see no need. By the way, that was in response to someone else on the Axiom forum that said the same thing about the new Axiom speaker, if ya didn't catch it, that was a little tongue and cheek.
billy p Audioholic Ninja Apr 14, 2006 3,698 0 113 Mar 20, 2012 #56 s Wid said: I did say that and it's true and so did my sister, the owner of the speakers. But I never said they sound better than the Accend towers, I've never heard them. I really don't care whose is bigger, better, prettier or whatever. Buy what you like and have fun with it. We have two different opinions, is that so odd with audio? I never disrespected you or Accend like you are doing me, I truely see no need. Click to expand... Sorry I hurt your feelings...moving on...
s Wid said: I did say that and it's true and so did my sister, the owner of the speakers. But I never said they sound better than the Accend towers, I've never heard them. I really don't care whose is bigger, better, prettier or whatever. Buy what you like and have fun with it. We have two different opinions, is that so odd with audio? I never disrespected you or Accend like you are doing me, I truely see no need. Click to expand... Sorry I hurt your feelings...moving on...
haraldo Audioholic Warlord Feb 25, 2008 7,914 0 113 63 Endor Mar 20, 2012 #57 I'm confused by what Axiom does.... If you look at some other manufacturers, like Dynaudio and Vienna Acoustics, they make specific drivers for all their different products and if you go upscale you get better and better quality drivers, so by adding money to your shopping basket there is no reason to doubt that what you get is higher quality.... Axiom just seem to add more drivers as you go upscale, so the speakers may play louder, with an increased possibility of interference between drivers and all the other aspects that may occur, There is no way that I can see any way that going up in price here provides you higher quality, just adding quantity... Wouldn't it be better with 4 or 5 really high quality drivers, rather than 11 mediocre quality drivers of the same style and quality that they utilize in their cheaper products. Playing louder DOES NOT EQUAL better quality, it's the same quality, just more of it at higher SPL
I'm confused by what Axiom does.... If you look at some other manufacturers, like Dynaudio and Vienna Acoustics, they make specific drivers for all their different products and if you go upscale you get better and better quality drivers, so by adding money to your shopping basket there is no reason to doubt that what you get is higher quality.... Axiom just seem to add more drivers as you go upscale, so the speakers may play louder, with an increased possibility of interference between drivers and all the other aspects that may occur, There is no way that I can see any way that going up in price here provides you higher quality, just adding quantity... Wouldn't it be better with 4 or 5 really high quality drivers, rather than 11 mediocre quality drivers of the same style and quality that they utilize in their cheaper products. Playing louder DOES NOT EQUAL better quality, it's the same quality, just more of it at higher SPL
gtpsuper24 Full Audioholic Aug 28, 2011 313 0 28 Ohio Mar 20, 2012 #58 But Axiom doesn't know how to make high quality drivers , they just rather tell everyone that there is no difference in them. Wonder how they came to the conclusion that cast drivers sound no different than the stamped version? Did they do what they call a "DBT" using their own staff? Did they make up some new science to tell them that cast is no different than stamped?
But Axiom doesn't know how to make high quality drivers , they just rather tell everyone that there is no difference in them. Wonder how they came to the conclusion that cast drivers sound no different than the stamped version? Did they do what they call a "DBT" using their own staff? Did they make up some new science to tell them that cast is no different than stamped?
gtpsuper24 Full Audioholic Aug 28, 2011 313 0 28 Ohio Mar 20, 2012 #59 billy p said: No but I read some of this recent comments regarding the Ascends...typical Axiom fanboy reaction...claiming the 80's measure flatter than Ascends and for 1900.00 they better sound good?. Hey Wid...tell any of our buddies they'd be welcomed to bring 60 & 80's over to my place.... Click to expand... When you use smoothed graphs like Axiom does at 120db it makes it look really nice. Billy the only way to truely know if the Ascends sound better than the Axioms is too stick them on a 90ft poll......oh wait thats subwoofers Theres just not enough tweeters for the Ascends to sound.....similarly good You wasted alot of money you could have saved about $400, you could have got a speaker with no bracing, crappy crossovers, stamped baskets, dated cabinet design, comb filtering, horrible off axis response, midrange that breaks up, impedance dips that shuts down amps and receivers ect....... Hope I didn't miss anything
billy p said: No but I read some of this recent comments regarding the Ascends...typical Axiom fanboy reaction...claiming the 80's measure flatter than Ascends and for 1900.00 they better sound good?. Hey Wid...tell any of our buddies they'd be welcomed to bring 60 & 80's over to my place.... Click to expand... When you use smoothed graphs like Axiom does at 120db it makes it look really nice. Billy the only way to truely know if the Ascends sound better than the Axioms is too stick them on a 90ft poll......oh wait thats subwoofers Theres just not enough tweeters for the Ascends to sound.....similarly good You wasted alot of money you could have saved about $400, you could have got a speaker with no bracing, crappy crossovers, stamped baskets, dated cabinet design, comb filtering, horrible off axis response, midrange that breaks up, impedance dips that shuts down amps and receivers ect....... Hope I didn't miss anything
haraldo Audioholic Warlord Feb 25, 2008 7,914 0 113 63 Endor Mar 20, 2012 #60 Very hard to find any 3rd party measurements around I could only find these from Enjoythemusic.... Axiom Audio Millennia M80Ti Shows -16dB @ 18KHz, some quite significant resonances from the tweeter.... Unsure which smoothing is used here....
Very hard to find any 3rd party measurements around I could only find these from Enjoythemusic.... Axiom Audio Millennia M80Ti Shows -16dB @ 18KHz, some quite significant resonances from the tweeter.... Unsure which smoothing is used here....
