Auto -on at Really Low Volume

[Banjopatty]

I have a question re the sub auto on option, I know this question has been well exhausted over the years, but looking at trying something new.
These are the units I’m working with,
Onkyo TX-NR686
Klipsch R-10SWi
The Onkyo has two sub outs, that are apparently sending the same signal out of each. At the moment I have one LFE sub cable running to the Klipsch sub, and recently added a Y splitter to try bump the signal up to wake the sub at lower volumes.
Haven’t really noticed a difference in using the Y splitter with the two connections into the back of the sub, certainly not the 3-6db increase.
I’m wondering if the Y splitter could go into the back of the receiver, would this send more signal? - as the manual says the same signal is sent from each Subwoofer pre out. Or two seperate sub cables?
It seems the only way to auto on is to have the receiver sub level up around +5-6, but have read it should be no higher than 0 for potential clipping, or in the negatives for head room.
I also have issues with getting the sub level to calibrate to 0 at best, even running room correction with the gain on the sub itself up around 75%, it always lands the level at +4.
AccuEQ I know is far from a good room correction, I also think my expectations may be a bit high to try get auto on to function at really low volumes - aiming for auto on at an Absolute vol. of around 35. I’ve read multiple threads on people struggling to get auto on to even function.
Am I dreaming?
Cheers

 

[lovinthehd]

What happens if you max out the gain/volume on the sub?

 

[Banjopatty]

What happens if you max out the gain/volume on the sub?

Are you referring to the auto on issue, or the calibration issue? I’ve done calibration at 75% gain on the sub, to see if that sets level 0 or less, still lands at +4. I’d be a bit paranoid going full volume, those test tones are brutal
I didn’t think that raising the sub’s gain helps with auto - on, isn’t it raising the receivers sub level that helps with triggering the subs auto - on?
I’m not to worried about the calibration thing, as can just adjust back to 0 and increase the subs gain, I’m mainly interested if using both sub outs on the receiver would send more signal, as opposed to the typical y splitter method at the sub inputs.
Thanks

 

[lovinthehd]

Are you referring to the auto on issue, or the calibration issue? I’ve done calibration at 75% gain on the sub, to see if that sets level 0 or less, still lands at +4. I’d be a bit paranoid going full volume, those test tones are brutal
I didn’t think that raising the sub’s gain helps with auto - on, isn’t it raising the receivers sub level that helps with triggering the subs auto - on?
I’m not to worried about the calibration thing, as can just adjust back to 0 and increase the subs gain, I’m mainly interested if using both sub outs on the receiver would send more signal, as opposed to the typical y splitter method at the sub inputs.
Thanks

Just didn't see that scenario specifically mentioned either way and curious how it affected both aspects. I think generally the difficulty with sub auto-on stuff is more the avr's sub pre-out level than gain on the sub. Trying to use the splitter is sometimes helpful to get a bit more gain but not always. I have one Klipsch sub (an RW12d) and it wasn't particularly difficult on the auto-on nor do I remember seeing any particular complaints about such generally for Klipsch subs. Another approach, and one I use on several systems, is just having the sub triggered by a smart power strip (turns on when the avr does).

 

[Banjopatty]

Just didn't see that scenario specifically mentioned either way and curious how it affected both aspects. I think generally the difficulty with sub auto-on stuff is more the avr's sub pre-out level than gain on the sub. Trying to use the splitter is sometimes helpful to get a bit more gain but not always. I have one Klipsch sub (an RW12d) and it wasn't particularly difficult on the auto-on nor do I remember seeing any particular complaints about such generally for Klipsch subs. Another approach, and one I use on several systems, is just having the sub triggered by a smart power strip (turns on when the avr does).

Yeah, I have two seperate issues. I’ve been reading that the sub level on the receiver ideally shouldn’t be set over 0, but I’m having to set around +5 to get the sub to auto - on.
I can’t for the life of me get the calibration to land the sub at 0 or below, maybe sub position or phase ( which I haven’t played with )
A smart power strip sounds like a cunning work around, that’s an good idea! Is there one you could recommend that has worked for you in this scenario? At least I can see the details of what to look for, I’m in New Zealand so probably be a different brand.
Thanks for your advice

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah, I have two seperate issues. I’ve been reading that the sub level on the receiver ideally shouldn’t be set over 0, but I’m having to set around +5 to get the sub to auto - on.
I can’t for the life of me get the calibration to land the sub at 0 or below, maybe sub position or phase ( which I haven’t played with )
A smart power strip sounds like a cunning work around, that’s an good idea! Is there one you could recommend that has worked for you in this scenario? At least I can see the details of what to look for, I’m in New Zealand so probably be a different brand.
Thanks for your advice

Yes, ideally I like my sub trim level at calibration to be less than 0 (and usually with a scale of up to -12, I like -10 -11 range). How about bypassing AccuEQ and just use an spl meter? I doubt you'd be missing much on the eq front.

Amazon might have same brands. Last one I got was this one https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006PUDQK?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1 (and appears to have changed brand name from "Smart Strip LCG3" to "Bits Ltd" as Amazon lumps them together now). I have one other from a brand called TrickleStar. The oldest one (in use for about 10 years) developed an issue, I think its along the same lines of a surge protector wearing out over time....at the time I at first thought it was the avr having issues (it would cut out without any particular stress) but turned out to be the power strip. Still, I think the convenience is worth the price.

 

[Banjopatty]

Yes, ideally I like my sub trim level at calibration to be less than 0 (and usually with a scale of up to -12, I like -10 -11 range). How about bypassing AccuEQ and just use an spl meter? I doubt you'd be missing much on the eq front.

Amazon might have same brands. Last one I got was this one https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006PUDQK?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_1 (and appears to have changed brand name from "Smart Strip LCG3" to "Bits Ltd" as Amazon lumps them together now). I have one other from a brand called TrickleStar. The oldest one (in use for about 10 years) developed an issue, I think its along the same lines of a surge protector wearing out over time....at the time I at first thought it was the avr having issues (it would cut out without any particular stress) but turned out to be the power strip. Still, I think the convenience is worth the price.

Awesome, will see if I can get hold of something like that. Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on using the two receiver sub outs to the one sub. Do you think would increase the signal as opposed to the single receiver sub out to a y splitter at the sub? I guess I could try it out and see, just thought someone may know if it would pass a stronger signal.

 

[lovinthehd]

Awesome, will see if I can get hold of something like that. Out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on using the two receiver sub outs to the one sub. Do you think would increase the signal as opposed to the single receiver sub out to a y splitter at the sub? I guess I could try it out and see, just thought someone may know if it would pass a stronger signal.

Meant to mention that, no, wouldn't do the combining of the preouts, no gain that way afaik.

 

[lovinthehd]

In looking at the back panel of the avr you are always using the sub pre-outs not the zone 2 line outs? You probably did, but never hurts to check....

 

[Banjopatty]

In looking at the back panel of the avr you are always using the sub pre-outs not the zone 2 line outs? You probably did, but never hurts to check....

Good call, but I have a Zone 2 setup. I could try swap the sub out to the other one and see if it’s any different, worth a go.

 

[lovinthehd]

Good call, but I have a Zone 2 setup. I could try swap the sub out to the other one and see if it’s any different, worth a go.

Yeah I would definitely check both sub pre-outs. May need to make sure it's enabled in the setup menu (which could explain the no gain with the splitter?)

 

[Banjopatty]

Yeah I would definitely check both sub pre-outs. May need to make sure it's enabled in the setup menu (which could explain the no gain with the splitter?)

Don’t think there is an option to enable in the setup menu, I have the y splitter at the back of the sub, so only the single sub out is being used on the receiver. Maybe there’s an issue with one of the receiver’s sub outs ( the one I’m using )
I don’t have the y splitter at the wrong end do I?

 

[lovinthehd]

Don’t think there is an option to enable in the setup menu, I have the y splitter at the back of the sub, so only the single sub out is being used on the receiver. Maybe there’s an issue with one of the receiver’s sub outs ( the one I’m using )
I don’t have the y splitter at the wrong end do I?

Nah, thinking sideways I was thinking of two rca cables from avr to sub rather than the splitter I then mentioned....but some avrs need sub 1 / sub 2 to be enabled particularly.

 

[Banjopatty]

Nah, thinking sideways I was thinking of two rca cables from avr to sub rather than the splitter I then mentioned....but some avrs need sub 1 / sub 2 to be enabled particularly.

Ah ok, this Onkyo is pretty basic, in the initial setup menu there’s just a box to tick if using a sub. No option for enabling 1 or 2 subs, so the same signal is sent to both outputs whether using just the one or both I guess. That’s why I assumed by utilising both sub outs on the receiver, I assumed it would double the output signal - like feeding two seperate subs.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ah ok, this Onkyo is pretty basic, in the initial setup menu there’s just a box to tick if using a sub. No option for enabling 1 or 2 subs, so the same signal is sent to both outputs whether using just the one or both I guess. That’s why I assumed by utilising both sub outs on the receiver, I assumed it would double the output signal - like feeding two seperate subs.

I always have tons of rcas on hand, so would have run two separate ones first Two low level outputs don't combine like that afaik (nor does the signal weaken when you use a splitter for an extra sub). Yes, some avrs don't treat them separately (especially for delay/level).

 

[Banjopatty]

I always have tons of rcas on hand, so would have run two separate ones first Two low level outputs don't combine like that afaik (nor does the signal weaken when you use a splitter for an extra sub). Yes, some avrs don't treat them separately (especially for delay/level).

May as well give it a go with two rcas if I can find another, should have one. Otherwise may give the y splitter at the back of the avr to the single cable to the subs LFE input. Hopefully can’t hurt

 

[lovinthehd]

May as well give it a go with two rcas if I can find another, should have one. Otherwise may give the y splitter at the back of the avr to the single cable to the subs LFE input. Hopefully can’t hurt

There's always Wye not Wye? https://www.ranecommercial.com/legacy/pdf/ranenotes/Why_Not_Wye.pdf

 

[Banjopatty]

There's always Wye not Wye? https://www.ranecommercial.com/legacy/pdf/ranenotes/Why_Not_Wye.pdf

Well that’s answered that for me, in the first paragraph

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ah ok, this Onkyo is pretty basic, in the initial setup menu there’s just a box to tick if using a sub. No option for enabling 1 or 2 subs, so the same signal is sent to both outputs whether using just the one or both I guess. That’s why I assumed by utilising both sub outs on the receiver, I assumed it would double the output signal - like feeding two seperate subs.

I believe he is right regarding using both sub outs. The reason the splitter works is that it increases the amps input sensitivity. Something is definitely odd here.

 

[Banjopatty]

I believe he is right regarding using both sub outs. The reason the splitter works is that it increases the amps input sensitivity. Something is definitely odd here.

After reading the Why not Wye link attached above from lovinthehd, I could try two seperate rcas as he mentioned. Maybe a safer option to try.