Audyssey Editor App- With Screenshots!

William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
It's not roll off, he had DEQ on so it boosted the low frequencies by design. With DEQ off, or if he turns the volume up to reference level, the graph should look much flatter.
Am I crazy, or does it look like all but one graph show 25hz as the point where it starts rolling off? The first one looks different with a dip at 23ish but solid down to 20 where the graph stops. Does deq have a high pass?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Am I crazy, or does it look like all but one graph show 25hz as the point where it starts rolling off? The first one looks different with a dip at 23ish but solid down to 20 where the graph stops. Does deq have a high pass?
He said the first graph was plotted with Audyssey off so no DEQ either. Audyssey cannot flatten his bass response so naturally we see some minor peaks and dips regardless. DEQ would simply apply boost to the low frequencies in such way that, as Dr. Kyriakakis said:

"Dynamic EQ should be left on. It will preserve the octave-to-octave balance of the content as you turn down the volume to make up for the changes that happen in human hearing at lower listening levels."

It is like the old "loudness" feature except it is dynamic, so it varies with the frequency, as frequency increases, it boosts less. That's why even if, say the 20-100 Hz graph is perfectly flat with Audyssey on and DEQ off, when you turn DEQ on, it will boost the lower frequencies but apply less boost as frequency increases, hence the "roll off" like look. The effect of DEQ and the resulting appearance of "roll off" will be more severe at spl much lower than reference level; and will level off as it approaches reference. At reference level, the graphs with DEQ on and off should look the same.

I would like to link the example graphs that used to be on the Audyssey site but all those pages are gone. I don't know why Audyssey appears to have abandoned Audyssey to some degree, maybe they are working on something new and don't want to support their aged XT32 SubEQHT product to the same degree they used any more.:rolleyes:
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
You raise a good question for which I've thought about very little. Would audyssey arrive at the same result if not eq'd first? I'm sure it's documented but I don't recall. I also wonder about the audyssey app and how granular it is, although I admit to knowing wry little about it. It seems like it would be excellent. I personally think the app doesn't render minidsp obsolete since I think greater control of the low end can be taken with minidsp. Again, I admit to little knowledge of the audyssey app. Also with legacy systems, the app is useless. Of course pogre is up to date!
If Audyssey XT32 subEQHT works well enough, then in theory whatever REW based minidsp EQ does would not/should not affect the final overcome once Audyssey has done its thing. It will be like someone bends a piece of steel by 45 degree and can't do more, then a stronger person comes along and bend it further to 90 degree. That same stronger person could have bend it to 90 degree all by himself. The weaker person bends the first 45 so the stronger person has an easier job to do but at the end the steel bar still ended up being 90 degree bent, right?:D Conversely if the second person is not stronger or even weaker than the first person, then assuming the steel bar has not reached its yield point, then it would remain at 45 degree bent. Unfortunately if Audyssey is not as good as minidsp/REW, then running it after can in fact make things worse.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Change the graph limits for vertical. Set the lower to 45. Looks like the upper is 105. Also try 1/6 smoothing. Iirc, that is fairly close to how humans hear. Try sweeping from 10hz to 200. It looks like your subs roll off higher than expected. I'd really like to see that at 10-200 and 45 to 105. Oh yeah. Having fun yet?
I went with 1/12 smoothing (still don't know wtf that does) at Peng's suggestion, but I can try whatever. I did do 2 sweeps at 10-200 but I forgot to change the graph limits. I can do all that pretty fast. I saved the session.

I got up at the crack of dawn this morning so I can take some uninterrupted measurements this morning.
It's not roll off, he had DEQ on so it boosted the low frequencies by design. With DEQ off, or if he turns the volume up to reference level, the graph should look much flatter.
Peng, I think I might have had my 3db bump on when I took those. I'll have some more here before too long, I have the whole house to myself this morning for a few hours. It's nice and quiet in here.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Change the graph limits for vertical. Set the lower to 45. Looks like the upper is 105. Also try 1/6 smoothing. Iirc, that is fairly close to how humans hear. Try sweeping from 10hz to 200. It looks like your subs roll off higher than expected. I'd really like to see that at 10-200 and 45 to 105. Oh yeah. Having fun yet?
Huh? Noob here, Liam! Don't let my overall genius fool you. :p I've read quite a bit, but I'm still pretty far from "knowing what I'm doing". 45 to 105? 10-200 I get. Here's last night's sub sweeps.

Sub Sweep Overlay.jpg


I'm willing to do whatever you guys would like to see, then I can get some useful feedback? I'm getting measuring down, but anything beyond the SPL measurements I don't really know what I'm looking at.

Feedback and suggestions! It's how I learn. I can only get so far reading about stuff I don't understand before my eyes start glazing over. I need some real world experience.

I'm gonna take some measurements right now and turn off the 3db bump I have going. I think I had that on when I took all of those measurements. I'll get one with just DEQ turned off as well. I have time and silence this morning so I'd like to get as much done as I can.

*Edit: I think for now I'm gonna focus on the subs, unless I get any requests for a specific set of measurements. I'm gonna set up and get that going.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Also, I don't have a tripod, per se. I'm using the cardboard one that came with my receiver for Audyssey.

20170608_133053-1305x734.jpg


90deg

20170611_070914-1305x734.jpg


0 degrees.

I used the 90deg cal yesterday. Today I'm switching to 0° and have it set up like the second pic.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I went with 1/12 smoothing (still don't know wtf that does) at Peng's suggestion, but I can try whatever. I did do 2 sweeps at 10-200 but I forgot to change the graph limits. I can do all that pretty fast. I saved the session.
I prefer 1/12 for LF so I can see better where the potential issues are. For MF to HF, 1/24 would be better. Audio magazine reviews and/or manufacturers sometimes may use 1/6 to look good.

Peng, I think I might have had my 3db bump on when I took those. I'll have some more here before too long, I have the whole house to myself this morning for a few hours. It's nice and quiet in here.
When you said 3db bump I most likely means bump up the subwoofer level, that won't affect the slop because the bump would been across the board, whereas the DEQ bump is dynamic, i.e. variable according to the frequencies.[/QUOTE]
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Just finished taking these 3 and overlayed them.

Sub Overlay 2.jpg


Red: Audyssey and DEQ
Green: Audyssey and no DEQ
Blue: Audyssey and DEQ off
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Also, I don't have a tripod, per se. I'm using the cardboard one that came with my receiver for Audyssey.

View attachment 21274

90deg

View attachment 21275

0 degrees.

I used the 90deg cal yesterday. Today I'm switching to 0° and have it set up like the second pic.
For more accurate results, you may need to have the tip of the mic a few inches above the top of the couch. I know Audyssey says ear level, but it has been clarified in FAQ (by Dr. Kyriakakis if I remember right) that it is okay to raise it higher to avoid the effects of high back couches.

Please do one with DEQ OFF, thanks. As it is now it looks like Audyssey is doing a good job for your room already.

Edit: You just did what I asked, many thanks. You have beautiful low frequency response already, looks like +/- 2 to 3 dB from 20 to 100Hz. I think you can use the editor to reduce the minor dip and bump between 40-50 hz, or just leave it alone and start enjoying movies and music.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I prefer 1/12 for LF so I can see better where the potential issues are. For MF to HF, 1/24 would be better. Audio magazine reviews and/or manufacturers sometimes may use 1/6 to look good.



When you said 3db bump I most likely means bump up the subwoofer level, that won't affect the slop because the bump would been across the board, whereas the DEQ bump is dynamic, i.e. variable according to the frequencies.
Understood. You're correct. I meant bumping up the subwoofer. The ones I just posted above I defeated my 3db bump.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
For more accurate results, you may need to have the tip of the mic a few inches above the top of the couch. I know Audyssey says ear level, but it has been clarified in FAQ (by Dr. Kyriakakis if I remember right) that it is okay to raise it higher to avoid the effects of high back couches.

Please do one with DEQ OFF, thanks. As it is now it looks like Audyssey is doing a good job for your room already.
I just posted with no DEQ. I'll raise the mic a little and take a couple more measurements. I have a few hours before anyone is home so this is easy for me right now. I got my noise floor down to -75.

Won't raising the mic be a little inaccurate? My head is definitely not above the back of the chair when I'm sitting. Not saying I'm not gonna do it, just curious.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Understood. You're correct. I meant bumping up the subwoofer. The ones I just posted above I defeated my 3db bump.
You can bump the sub up by 3 dB again and the curve will maintain the same shape as long as DEQ is off, the whole curve for 20-200 Hz will just elevate almost equally for the whole range by 3dB.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
For more accurate results, you may need to have the tip of the mic a few inches above the top of the couch. I know Audyssey says ear level, but it has been clarified in FAQ (by Dr. Kyriakakis if I remember right) that it is okay to raise it higher to avoid the effects of high back couches.

Please do one with DEQ OFF, thanks. As it is now it looks like Audyssey is doing a good job for your room already.

Edit: You just did what I asked, many thanks. You have beautiful low frequency response already, looks like +/- 2 to 3 dB from 20 to 100Hz. I think you can use the editor to reduce the minor dip and bump between 40-50 hz, or just leave it alone and start enjoying movies and music.
That's what I was looking for. Some confirmation that what I have right now is good. I haven't uploaded the curve I took with the app yet. I'll do that next and run a quick sweep. Then I (for the first time) will use the editor to raise that dip and bump, upload it and take another measurement. It's really starting to look like I don't need the mini. I haven't even opened that up.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Gotcha on the 3db gain. I'll have the same curve regardless of how high I bump it. I did a few more sweeps above the back of the chair.

20170611_080739-1305x734.jpg


Sub Overlay Above Chair Back.jpg


This next one is the first set I took at ear level.

Sub Overlay 2.jpg


They look pretty identical to me. Should I continue taking them above the back of the chair?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Gotcha on the 3db gain. I'll have the same curve regardless of how high I bump it. I did a few more sweeps above the back of the chair.

View attachment 21277

View attachment 21278

This next one is the first set I took at ear level.

View attachment 21280

They look pretty identical to me. Should I continue taking them above the back of the chair?
I think you should run Audyssey just one more time but this time sit the Audyssey mic higher to clear the couch.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
He said the first graph was plotted with Audyssey off so no DEQ either. Audyssey cannot flatten his bass response so naturally we see some minor peaks and dips regardless. DEQ would simply apply boost to the low frequencies in such way that, as Dr. Kyriakakis said:

"Dynamic EQ should be left on. It will preserve the octave-to-octave balance of the content as you turn down the volume to make up for the changes that happen in human hearing at lower listening levels."

It is like the old "loudness" feature except it is dynamic, so it varies with the frequency, as frequency increases, it boosts less. That's why even if, say the 20-100 Hz graph is perfectly flat with Audyssey on and DEQ off, when you turn DEQ on, it will boost the lower frequencies but apply less boost as frequency increases, hence the "roll off" like look. The effect of DEQ and the resulting appearance of "roll off" will be more severe at spl much lower than reference level; and will level off as it approaches reference. At reference level, the graphs with DEQ on and off should look the same.

I would like to link the example graphs that used to be on the Audyssey site but all those pages are gone. I don't know why Audyssey appears to have abandoned Audyssey to some degree, maybe they are working on something new and don't want to support their aged XT32 SubEQHT product to the same degree they used any more.:rolleyes:
Actually I was referring to the low end roll off. Lol.
It looks like they're rolling off a little higher than I'd expect. Not sure where there tuned currently but it looks like 25 is where it begins. The sweeps with audyssey off look to reach closer to 20 before rolling. My question about high pass and deq was if that's why it looked that way.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
I prefer 1/12 for LF so I can see better where the potential issues are. For MF to HF, 1/24 would be better. Audio magazine reviews and/or manufacturers sometimes may use 1/6 to look good.



When you said 3db bump I most likely means bump up the subwoofer level, that won't affect the slop because the bump would been across the board, whereas the DEQ bump is dynamic, i.e. variable according to the frequencies.
[/QUOTE]

Fwiw, u use no smoothing while I'm adjusting, but when I'm done, I do use 1/6. So it's pretty!!! Lol
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Btw poges. Sweeps look really good. How much for the minidsp? Lol. I always wanted one but my. BFD was much cheaper. Looking good! Havin fun?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I think you should run Audyssey just one more time but this time sit the Audyssey mic higher to clear the couch.
You're killing me. :p I kid, I kid. You're giving me exactly what I asked for. Going forward I'm using the app exclusively for Audyssey measurements. That way I can save whatever file, name it and I can upload it any time. I cleared all previous measurements I had before this morning.

Screenshot_2017-06-11-09-36-53.png

That's what I have right now. I'll make copies of those (thank you app editor) for tweaking purposes.
Btw poges. Sweeps look really good. How much for the minidsp? Lol. I always wanted one but my. BFD was much cheaper. Looking good! Havin fun?
You know what? I really am having fun. A lot of this is tedious and boring, but as I learn more it becomes more fun. Audyssey measurements suck the most to do for sure though. I now have 2 clean Audyssey files saved as you can see above. Time for a few more REW measurements then I'm getting the app out and doing some editing!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Actually I was referring to the low end roll off. Lol.
It looks like they're rolling off a little higher than I'd expect. Not sure where there tuned currently but it looks like 25 is where it begins. The sweeps with audyssey off look to reach closer to 20 before rolling. My question about high pass and deq was if that's why it looked that way.
That's probably because I have it on eq 2 and both ports open. As per Hsu I take Audyssey measurements with 1 port open and eq 1. I like to listen with both ports open and eq 2 though. Apparently I like more headroom and volume. Who woulda thunk? :p

Perhaps I shall take sweeps of the different modes for my subs? Hmmm... that might be fun!

*Edit: One thing at a time Pogre. I still need to try tweaking Audyssey. I got caught up talking to an old friend. Time to get back at it.
 

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