Audiosciencereview.com/. legit?

[Irvrobinson]

The ASR testing is fairly limited....it is what it is. An indicator perhaps. How you subjectively react who knows.

You mean because Amir doesn't do video performance testing? For audio electronics, speakers, and headphones who does it better?

As far as productivity, Amir seems to do more *testing* in a month than any other site does in a year.

 

[lovinthehd]

You mean because Amir doesn't do video performance testing? For audio electronics, speakers, and headphones who does it better?

As far as productivity, Amir seems to do more *testing* in a month than any other site does in a year.

He doesn't do every kind of testing of the electronics involved, doesn't even test all the possible inputs/outputs. He concentrates on a few aspects. Like RichB mentioned it's limited to mostly just two channels for example. It may not yield a lot more interesting info but until it's done....\

ps as to who else we have Erin's Klippel testing as well as Amir's for example. Have no idea about headphones, not something I look for at all.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I agree with HD.

There is no denying that some companies are getting involved now that ASR almost has the “monopoly“ on electronics measurement - I still don’t understand why everyone just quit doing measurements.

But the true test would be to correlate those ASR SOTA numbers with actual sales numbers since they don’t correlate with things like Sound Quality, Reliability, Compatibility, Functionality, etc., at least among NON-golden-ears people.

ASR is about engineering excellence. His measurements speak for themselves. You seem to be looking for an excuse for why some products have lousy engineering, that it doesn't matter. He doesn't care about correlation with sales, and frankly either do I. Most buyers are not technically competent anyway, so in terms of measurements and engineering excellence they don't matter. If you ask most people, even posters on this site, what it really means to have noise and distortion that's 100db below 4 volts, I doubt very many people could answer that question.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ASR is about engineering excellence. His measurements speak for themselves. You seem to be looking for an excuse for why some products have lousy engineering, that it doesn't matter. He doesn't care about correlation with sales, and frankly either do I. Most buyers are not technically competent anyway, so in terms of measurements and engineering excellence they don't matter. If you ask most people, even posters on this site, what it really means to have noise and distortion that's 100db below 4 volts, I doubt very many people could answer that question.

Some people do care whether these numbers correlate to actual sound quality, reliability, heat production and dissipation, compatibility, functionality, etc.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Some people do care whether these numbers correlate to actual sound quality, reliability, heat production and dissipation, compatibility, functionality, etc.

There are too many factors to generalize a correlation between specific measurements and sound quality. I think you know this, and you’re just being difficult because you advocate AVRs, and Amir basically says every one he measures sucks from an engineering excellence perspective.

As for the more subjective factors, I’m interested in those too, but some of them, like compatibility and reliability, are time consuming and complex to test for.

 

[RichB]

He did measure the center I ordered to go with my towers, an Ascend Acoustic Horizon with a ribbon tweet and it actually did pretty well. He still says he doesn't like it, but acknowledgedes it's pretty well behaved.

Even tho he didn't recommend I still say it did really well and am satisfied with the results. Just gotta read between the lines (or skip right over a bunch of them) when you're looking at his reviews.

I'd like the center channel output to be measured for any AVR/AVP.

- Rich

 

[RichB]

ASR too often finds that expensive products whose performance is suspect and frequently bested by products that cost far less.
Denon and other manufacturers are stepping up their game.

- Rich

 

[lovinthehd]

It does help strip away some of the perceived quality of some of the more expensive items for sure. Some show their worth, some don't. I would like to see more extensive testing, but don't really blame Amir for minimizing it, kinda surprised how much time he spends on it already. To get more quantity of expensive items in there could well have a bottleneck, too, as to the willingness of people to send their most expensive purchases/gear his way...especially if its key to a system up and running.

 

[lovinthehd]

There are too many factors to generalize a correlation between specific measurements and sound quality. I think you know this, and you’re just being difficult because you advocate AVRs, and Amir basically says every one he measures sucks from an engineering excellence perspective.

As for the more subjective factors, I’m interested in those too, but some of them, like compatibility and reliability, are time consuming and complex to test for.

The level of engineering excellence is still fairly impressive for avr/avp's I think. Perhaps they don't compare well to items that are dissimilar in function and complexity, that's possible and makes sense to me, especially at sometimes little difference in price. Still, it's generally a matter of specmanship/ideals rather than audibility in general.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There are too many factors to generalize a correlation between specific measurements and sound quality. I think you know this, and you’re just being difficult because you advocate AVRs, and Amir basically says every one he measures sucks from an engineering excellence perspective.

As for the more subjective factors, I’m interested in those too, but some of them, like compatibility and reliability, are time consuming and complex to test for.

I “advocate AVR”? Since when?

I’ve owned separates (preamps, amps, integrated amps, pre-pros, standalone processors) ever since I started this hobby.

I still own separates. Even my subwoofers are separates with external amps.

I am NOT being “difficult“. I am just not afraid to ask the questions.

Amir is absolutely NOT the first person to measure electronics. This has been done for the past 30+ years. So I am asking the group in general or in casual conversation - over this many years of electronics measurements, has there been a general correlation between having the best “numbers” and being the “most reliable“ or best sounding or anything else?

And I am wondering why ”everyone” is no longer doing these measurements? This happened before COVID. So does anyone truly know why? Is it simply costing too much money to continue doing measurements (personnel + equipment cost)?

But going back to the quote in red, does Amir seem to believe that all AVR sucks?

I love owning pre-pros and amps and I wouldn’t mind owning preamps and amps or even something like the Yamaha A-S3200 integrated amps. But I do believe that AVRs sound just as great as separates.

I thought those ASR numbers prove that AVR‘s measure as well as separates?

 

[Irvrobinson]

I “advocate AVR”? Since when?

I've been reading your posts for years, and you often come out in support of using AVRs. @TLSGuy and I are usually the AVR haters, deserved or not.

I’ve owned separates (preamps, amps, integrated amps, pre-pros, standalone processors) ever since I started this hobby.

I still own separates. Even my subwoofers are separates with external amps.

I know. Amir also measures pre-pros and finds them below expectations along with AVRs, even compared to some dongles.

I am NOT being “difficult“. I am just not afraid to ask the questions.

Amir is absolutely NOT the first person to measure electronics. This has been done for the past 30+ years. So I am asking the group in general or in casual conversation - over this many years of electronics measurements, has there been a general correlation between having the best “numbers” and being the “most reliable“ or best sounding or anything else?

And I am wondering why ”everyone” is no longer doing these measurements? This happened before COVID. So does anyone truly know why? Is it simply costing too much money to continue doing measurements (personnel + equipment cost)?

Well, you'd have to ask the former reviewers, like @gene . Stereophile still does measurements of amps, pre-amps, and DACs, though it's all about audio that I've seen. HT components are of no interest. I'm not sure why. The list price of an Audio Precision APx555 used to be $28,000, before accessories, but AP has stopped listing prices. I don't know what that means (new prices are higher, lower, or the same).

But going back to the quote in red, does Amir seem to believe that all AVR sucks?

Only the ones he's measured. I don't follow his AVR and pre-pro testing closely, so you'd have to look yourself or ask @PENG, who is very active on ASR. For the reviews I've read, especially of Marantz products, the measurements are uncomplimentary.

I love owning pre-pros and amps and I wouldn’t mind owning preamps and amps or even something like the Yamaha A-S3200 integrated amps. But I do believe that AVRs sound just as great as separates.

I don't have an opinion on audible differences, especially for HT products. I use a cheap Marantz AVR as a pre-pro, and I don't think it has any audible deficiencies for HT. I've never tried using that system for high quality acoustic recordings, especially my own.

I thought those ASR numbers prove that AVR‘s measure as well as separates?

Unfortunately not. Like I said, Amir has commented that for digital audio there are cheap dongles that measure better than high-end AVRs.

 

[shadyJ]

Like I said, Amir has commented that for digital audio there are cheap dongles that measure better than high-end AVRs.

To be fair, it shouldn't be very hard to design a low-noise, low-distortion dongle. It is a relatively simple circuit. An AVR is far more complex. I wouldn't be surprised if a cheap dongle has a lower noise floor than an AVR. The only thing that really matters is whether that noise floor can become audible.

 

[jinjuku]

Amir is absolutely NOT the first person to measure electronics. This has been done for the past 30+ years. So I am asking the group in general or in casual conversation - over this many years of electronics measurements, has there been a general correlation between having the best “numbers” and being the “most reliable“ or best sounding or anything else?

Well if you look at some others you get John Atkinson that no matter how piss-poor something measures, if $$ has changed hands, it's Saul Goodman.

Amir isn't focused on a correlation. If something sounds good to him he'll simply states it sounds good.

So here's the flip side: What has he measured, that measures well, that doesn't sound good?

Also he's not setup to do reliability testing. I just sold my Emotiva DC-1 for $129 profit and have a SMSL SU-9 coming. The DC-1 has been my daily driver for 6 years. I have no idea how the SMSL is going to do. Neither does Amir. I'm ok with that.

 

[cpp]

On this site is all about measurements, not about how something sounds. I'll take measurements as a guide, but in the end its all about how the equipment produces the music I enjoy.

 

[Pogre]

On this site is all about measurements, not about how something sounds. I'll take measurements as a guide, but in the end its all about how the equipment produces the music I enjoy.

That's not true, lol. We definitely like our measurements here, but the sound is what matters most at the end of the day. The (audible) measurements very often correspond with preference.

 

[cpp]

That's not true, lol. We definitely like our measurements here, but the sound is what matters most at the end of the day. The (audible) measurements very often correspond with preference.

YOu didn't read my post. I 'mk not talking about this site,

 

[Pogre]

YOu didn't read my post. I 'mk not talking about this site,

OOPS!

I thought you were talking about Audioholics. My bad. Tho your wording did leave a little open to interpretation...

 

[PENG]

Hard to know what's SOTA unless every unit available out there is tested for comparison....but does seem several unhappy people that it's not the SOTA that they feel Anthem has claimed.....

IIrc, ADTG started using that term here, for a precise definition, ask him.

 

[PENG]

It still tickles me that a lowly avr we commonly recommended is one of the best measuring integrated/prepros he's tested.

Yep, aren't you glad that your SR6011 (or 12?) most likely measured better than the more expensive so called separate AV7705, or even the AV7706 (can't wait, Matthew Poes please hurry up)

 

[Irvrobinson]

IIrc, ADTG started using that term here, for a precise definition, ask him.

No, I taught it to him.