Audiophiles getting their egos hurt .................

[highfigh]

Not anymore.

(you weren't supposed to notice)

 

[Bucknekked]

In my own arena of expertise, Long Range High Power Rifle Shooting, I read articles almost daily which tell me how to do it written by folks who, having been to the range on a singular occasion, think they actually know something about it. .

Sterling
The more posts you put up, the more there is to like about you.
About 10 years ago, some friends and I all built 1,000 yard match rifles so we could shoot together in some long range competition. Our ultimate goal was to hunt with them at long range after a year or so of practice. It was a learning experience all along the way. In some things, like long range shooting, the "doing" is much more important than the ballistic tables. I enjoyed the experience immensely and I understand your frustration with wannabe's and instant experts. We all had a great time doing it, some of us had a better time than others because we made some much better choices.

Keep those posts coming. Its summer here in Arizona, so we don't shoot much again til the fall when it cools off.

 

[Bucknekked]

.

I do miss George Carlin. I loved that dude

 

[sterling shoote]

Sterling
The more posts you put up, the more there is to like about you.
About 10 years ago, some friends and I all built 1,000 yard match rifles so we could shoot together in some long range competition. Our ultimate goal was to hunt with them at long range after a year or so of practice. It was a learning experience all along the way. In some things, like long range shooting, the "doing" is much more important than the ballistic tables. I enjoyed the experience immensely and I understand your frustration with wannabe's and instant experts. We all had a great time doing it, some of us had a better time than others because we made some much better choices.

Keep those posts coming. Its summer here in Arizona, so we don't shoot much again til the fall when it cools off.

If you can "shoot" your email address to mine csludwig2@gmail.com, I will send you some of the manuals/guides I distribute to shooters who are receiving marksmanship training from me. These materials cover it all: calculations of trajectory for effects of slope. wind and weather, distance to target, as well as marksmanship principles which become more important as distance to target increases. Much of the instruction is rooted in what The United States Army Marksmanship Unit believes to be important to good shooting. I've had the privilege to assist them in the delivery of the Squad Designated Marksman Program. It's a program which shows how to hit targets from 300 to 600 meters using a rack grade M16-A4 or M4 with as issued iron sights.

 

[highfigh]

Sterling
The more posts you put up, the more there is to like about you.
About 10 years ago, some friends and I all built 1,000 yard match rifles so we could shoot together in some long range competition. Our ultimate goal was to hunt with them at long range after a year or so of practice. It was a learning experience all along the way. In some things, like long range shooting, the "doing" is much more important than the ballistic tables. I enjoyed the experience immensely and I understand your frustration with wannabe's and instant experts. We all had a great time doing it, some of us had a better time than others because we made some much better choices.

Keep those posts coming. Its summer here in Arizona, so we don't shoot much again til the fall when it cools off.

What caliber? At long range, I would think the projectile would lose enough energy that it wouldn't be as effective as if it were in it's normal range.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

That's pretty sad. But there is a class of people (more money than sense) who simply cannot be told that more money does not equal a better product. In many cases that may be true, but these folks never take the time to learn where their money should be invested. My ears will tell me that a $1000 speaker whips a $20 speaker, and I could get measurements to back that up. But put a $1000 RCA cable against Monoprice, and I bet no one would notice if you didn't tell them.

Psychacoustics is good business! Imagine selling an Ethernet cable with a BOM less than $20, for $4000. Or laying a $500 block of wood on a power cord "to widen the soundstage." I'm in the wrong line of work. I should start selling audiophile USB thumb drives.

 

[sterling shoote]

What caliber? At long range, I would think the projectile would lose enough energy that it wouldn't be as effective as if it were in it's normal range.

Yes, you are right; and, in fact the bullet will in time begin to fly erratically and then tumble end over end. This is when marksmanship is effectively moot. Here's how it works:
Ballistics
There are three ballistic phases: internal, external, and terminal. External ballistics is everything about the performance of the bullet from the time it leaves the muzzle of the rifle to where it impacts the target. Our focus is on external ballistics since an understanding of it is paramount to a hitting a target at a prescribed distance.

Knowledge of basic external ballistic facts dispels misconceptions.

Gravity and air resistance have a constant and continuous effect on the bullet as it passes through air.

This constant effect causes the bullet path to be a definitive and uniform arc.

The sole purpose of spin which is imparted on the bullet from rifling is to stabilize the bullet to keep it from tumbling end over end.

The common cylindrical bullet has no loft capabilities as does an airplane wing.

A bullet fired from a true horizontal bore will begin to slow down and fall towards the earth immediately upon leaving the muzzle of the rifle.

Comprehension of trajectory helps the shooter understand the need to adjust sights to hit the target at any given distance.

A bullet flying through air is acted upon primarily by two forces, which change the direction and the velocity of the bullet’s motion.

Gravity causes the bullet to fall towards earth.

Air resistance causes the bullet to slow down, fly erratically, and tumble.

These forces are countered in three manners: (1) increase the angle of departure to counter the effect of gravity, and to allow the bullet to reach further distances, (2) impart spin, and (3) high velocities on the bullet to counter air resistance and allow the bullet to fly nose-on to a far distance.

Two basic concepts which can help us visualize how a bullet is sent through air are: the flight of a football and the spin of a children’s top.

Trajectory has three elements:

Line of sight, this is what we see when looking through our sights at the target.

Bullet path, the actual trajectory of the bullet from the time it leaves the bore.

Line of bore, the imaginary line from where the bullet rests in the bore to infinity. This is the path a bullet would take if gravity and air resistance were not factors. The bullet would in effect be a laser.

Increasing the angle of departure, such as using the hold over method of aiming, allows the bullet to hit a target at a greater distance. And, by increasing the angle of departure from horizontal, the line of sight will intersect the bullet path twice.

Now, about caliber: for 1000 yard shooting the minimum seen today is the .223 Round as fired from the match conditioned US Service Rifle. Usually, the cartridge will be loaded with a bullet which has a relatively high ballistic coefficient for the caliber. Even then, the bullet is greatly effected by wind. Most agree this sort of competition is very difficult.

 

[slipperybidness]

@sterling shoote
I would assume that you are also doing your own custom loads for best accuracy (loads tuned to the particular rifle) and precision?

 

[highfigh]

Yes, you are right; and, in fact the bullet will in time begin to fly erratically and then tumble end over end. This is when marksmanship is effectively moot. Here's how it works:
Ballistics

I understand a good amount WRT ballistics- I was curious about caliber because a large projectile has a lot of disadvantages when long-range is involved but a small one has its own. How is the shape of the projectile controlled, so it doesn't have any irregularities?

 

[sterling shoote]

I understand a good amount WRT ballistics- I was curious about caliber because a large projectile has a lot of disadvantages when long-range is involved but a small one has its own. How is the shape of the projectile controlled, so it doesn't have any irregularities?

I use match grade bullets for Long Range Competitions. They're perfect. The performance of the bullet at Long Range is mostly about its ballistic coefficient. The higher the coefficient the better the performance. One of the best calibers for Long Range Competition is the 142 grain 6.5mm, or .264 diameter bullet. It has a ballistic coefficient of about .600 whereas an 80 grain .224 bullet has a coefficient of about .450 or thereabouts.

 

[sterling shoote]

@sterling shoote
I would assume that you are also doing your own custom loads for best accuracy (loads tuned to the particular rifle) and precision?

Yes, for Service Rifle Competition I shoot a handloading: 24.8 grains of RE-15 under an 80 grain Berger.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

How the hell does an interconnect go bad in the first place? I mean, HDBaseT extenders sometimes fail, and I've seen the cat6 connections sometimes fail (HDBaseT is super sensitive to this),but beyond that, I've never had a well made RCA cable fail, or a HDMI cable fail after it was installed and working properly from the start.

I JUST had a HDMI cable I installed that was wonky on one end. But, that was an out of the box issue, not a six months later issue.

Stop using crappy cables that are more than $50 and go back to a decent Blue Jeans or Monoprice cable for $20 or less and enjoy it forever.

People are stupid.

I just had a problem with a HDMI cable where the Macbook Pro would not handshake with the Plasma display (I wanted to watch a movie). It was a new cable that had worked for about a week prior without issue. Bought it because it was a more appropriate length (shorter) for my particular use.

Spent way too much time trying to solve the problem, finally swapped the HDMI cable. Instant result. The new (old) cable works excellently; I can set the laptop to mirroring and plug / unplug repeatedly in quick succession and the TV displays / complains as appropriate every time.

Neither cable was expensive, both under $20, the failing one was "4K" capable, according to the specifications while the working one was rated for an older HDMI spec (the display is just a 720p plasma that accepts 1080p input which is what the laptop outputs).

I treat my cables properly; never coiling with a twist, never bending close to the minimum bend radius, never pulling by the cord, never straining at the connector or by hanging weight, never crimping it or having it pinched, storing in an appropriate way, etc.

It happens.

I plan to cut the failed cable and use (tested) internal cables as hookup wire for various electronic projects. They should be 24~26 AWG with appropriate dielectric. It won't go to waste.

"Audiophile" is not a perjorative word. It simply means someone who enjoys listening to music via a decent system, not a "lunatic fringe" subset of those people. I don't see any posts outside of some of the "newbie asking for help" posts here that do not come from "Audiophiles".

 

[Mikado463]

Yes, for Service Rifle Competition I shoot a handloading: 24.8 grains of RE-15 under an 80 grain Berger.

I too was a Berger fan back in my BR days (6PPC). My 'whistle pig' gun (.243 ackley) loves 70 gr Nosler Ballistic tip. I've yet to make the 1000 yd club, best to-date is 749 yds

 

[highfigh]

I just had a problem with a HDMI cable where the Macbook Pro would not handshake with the Plasma display (I wanted to watch a movie). It was a new cable that had worked for about a week prior without issue. Bought it because it was a more appropriate length (shorter) for my particular use.

Spent way too much time trying to solve the problem, finally swapped the HDMI cable. Instant result. The new (old) cable works excellently; I can set the laptop to mirroring and plug / unplug repeatedly in quick succession and the TV displays / complains as appropriate every time.

Neither cable was expensive, both under $20, the failing one was "4K" capable, according to the specifications while the working one was rated for an older HDMI spec (the display is just a 720p plasma that accepts 1080p input which is what the laptop outputs).

I treat my cables properly; never coiling with a twist, never bending close to the minimum bend radius, never pulling by the cord, never straining at the connector or by hanging weight, never crimping it or having it pinched, storing in an appropriate way, etc.

It happens.

I plan to cut the failed cable and use (tested) internal cables as hookup wire for various electronic projects. They should be 24~26 AWG with appropriate dielectric. It won't go to waste.

"Audiophile" is not a perjorative word. It simply means someone who enjoys listening to music via a decent system, not a "lunatic fringe" subset of those people. I don't see any posts outside of some of the "newbie asking for help" posts here that do not come from "Audiophiles".

Before you cannibalize the cable, connect it and if the video doesn't show, unplug it from the display, then re-insert the plug, to see if it works. It frequently helps.

 

[sterling shoote]

I too was a Berger fan back in my BR days (6PPC). My 'whistle pig' gun (.243 ackley) loves 70 gr Nosler Ballistic tip. I've yet to make the 1000 yd club, best to-date is 749 yds

I hope you live close to a 1000 yard range and have an opportunity to try out the various NRA competitions for folks who have an interest. There are iron sight matches, scope matches, scope with rest matches, and US Service Rifle Matches. I have mostly competed in the iron sight with sling support matches, Service Rifle and Bolt operated rifle. My best score with iron sight .223 Service Rifle is a 192 with 6 X's. I'm real proud of that score, since that division of Long Range shooting is the most difficult. At any rate, I've had a lot of fun with it. Hope you can too.

 

[Mikado463]

I hope you live close to a 1000 yard range and have an opportunity to try out the various NRA competitions for folks who have an interest. There are iron sight matches, scope matches, scope with rest matches, and US Service Rifle Matches. I have mostly competed in the iron sight with sling support matches, Service Rifle and Bolt operated rifle. My best score with iron sight .223 Service Rifle is a 192 with 6 X's. I'm real proud of that score, since that division of Long Range shooting is the most difficult. At any rate, I've had a lot of fun with it. Hope you can too.

cool stuff, we've hi-jacked this thread long enough, I'll open one up on it's own.

 

[mattlach]

This is ridiculous. Only benefit you'll ever get from aftermarket power cables is MAYBE better insulation, preventing or reducing a 60hz hum from reaching nearby signal cables.

The Audiophile world has always been full of snake oil salesmen, and the golden eared "experts" willing to fall on their swords in defense of their placebo experience.

The one that really made me realize the truth was the Hydrogenaudio.org study done on MP3 compression quality, where they wrote a piece of software that played an mp3 compressed with then "LAME --alt-preset standard" settings (today --preset standard) and just a direct .wav rip. Users could switch back and forth between the two versions of each sample as many times as they wanted before choosing which they thought was the mp3.

The blinded A/B test was made available to the community and a large sample set of audiophiles who thought they could hear "how bad mp3 sounds" on their own high end equipment, and determined that they culdn't tell any more than approximately half the time. In other words, the same as blindly guessing.

This study (now probably 15 years ago?) was eye opening to me, and illustrated how much placebo effect there is in this hobby. I probably fall for some of it too, but at least I am aware, have a somewhat science and engineering based background and try not to.

My favorite is the one where people claim to hear a difference between digital interconnects...

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Before you cannibalize the cable, connect it and if the video doesn't show, unplug it from the display, then re-insert the plug, to see if it works. It frequently helps.

Oh, there was a LOT of plugging / unplugging going on, using every input on the display, restarts of the laptop and display with / without the cable ... well you get the idea. I gave it all the chances it should need, and then some.

You honestly didn't think I wouldn't thoroughly troubleshoot, did you? You know me better than that.

Doing the usual due diligence I noticed a lot of posts from people who couldn't get an HDMI out from the particular laptop, and all kinds of "solutions" including some YouTube how-to's, all of which were really kludges.

Yet a cable substitute solved my problem completely. I wonder how many people are suffering because of a bad HDMI cable. I suspect a lot.

 

[highfigh]

Oh, there was a LOT of plugging / unplugging going on, using every input on the display, restarts of the laptop and display with / without the cable ... well you get the idea. I gave it all the chances it should need, and then some.

You honestly didn't think I wouldn't thoroughly troubleshoot, did you? You know me better than that.

Doing the usual due diligence I noticed a lot of posts from people who couldn't get an HDMI out from the particular laptop, and all kinds of "solutions" including some YouTube how-to's, all of which were really kludges.

Yet a cable substitute solved my problem completely. I wonder how many people are suffering because of a bad HDMI cable. I suspect a lot.

I don't doubt that you did a lot of troubleshooting, but I didn't see anything about a hot swap.

Yes, A LOT of people have problems with HDMI- the forum for professionals is loaded with threads and comments about that POS cable and even with cable testers, EDID spoofers and other devices that are supposed to make our lives easier, it's still a POS. Members of the forum include people from SnapAV, Zektor, Vanco/Metra, Ethereal, major wholesale distributors and others (apologies for omissions) and even they have to work their butts off in order to come up with new solutions to the problems that show up every time some new crap is shoved through HDMI.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

This is ridiculous. Only benefit you'll ever get from aftermarket power cables is MAYBE better insulation, preventing or reducing a 60hz hum from reaching nearby signal cables.

The Audiophile world has always been full of snake oil salesmen, and the golden eared "experts" willing to fall on their swords in defense of their placebo experience.

The one that really made me realize the truth was the Hydrogenaudio.org study done on MP3 compression quality, where they wrote a piece of software that played an mp3 compressed with then "LAME --alt-preset standard" settings (today --preset standard) and just a direct .wav rip. Users could switch back and forth between the two versions of each sample as many times as they wanted before choosing which they thought was the mp3.

The blinded A/B test was made available to the community and a large sample set of audiophiles who thought they could hear "how bad mp3 sounds" on their own high end equipment, and determined that they culdn't tell any more than approximately half the time. In other words, the same as blindly guessing.

This study (now probably 15 years ago?) was eye opening to me, and illustrated how much placebo effect there is in this hobby. I probably fall for some of it too, but at least I am aware, have a somewhat science and engineering based background and try not to.

My favorite is the one where people claim to hear a difference between digital interconnects...

I feel no shame in ripping my CD's to 320Mb MP3's as soon as I buy them. I have never been able to tell the difference with speakers or headphones, and other than MP3's not being gapless (sucks for classical or Pink Floyd) I personally don't feel like I'm losing anything. The portability, compatibility, and ease of encoding album art into the file are just icing on t he cake.