Audiophiles getting their egos hurt .................

[lsiberian]

Given that people have trouble telling the difference between dsped and level matched tweeters and midranges in ABX testing. I feel like power cables is so last decade in the research. I suspect many of us our not nearly as discerning as we like to tell ourselves. I just don't see the point in arguing with the cable crowd anymore.

 

[Bucknekked]

I feel no shame in ripping my CD's to 320Mb MP3's as soon as I buy them. I have never been able to tell the difference with speakers or headphones, and other than MP3's not being gapless (sucks for classical or Pink Floyd) I personally don't feel like I'm losing anything. The portability, compatibility, and ease of encoding album art into the file are just icing on t he cake.

That's what I like about DIY ripping and storing music. I get to choose and I get to vote on how it sounds.
If you like 320mb MP3, you are 100% large and in charge. Go forth and listen in peace and comfort.

Just as an FYI, there are many amongst us that have a mean OCD streak and the possibility that we could be losing a few bits here and there would cause angst and consternation. Hence, we rip at the highest lossless rates possbile (or some variation of that). I have re-ripped my entire library that way and I have put my OCD streak to bed on that issue.

Be well and enjoy those MP3s

 

[mattlach]

I feel no shame in ripping my CD's to 320Mb MP3's as soon as I buy them. I have never been able to tell the difference with speakers or headphones, and other than MP3's not being gapless (sucks for classical or Pink Floyd) I personally don't feel like I'm losing anything. The portability, compatibility, and ease of encoding album art into the file are just icing on t he cake.

I feel no shame in ripping my CD's to 320Mb MP3's as soon as I buy them. I have never been able to tell the difference with speakers or headphones, and other than MP3's not being gapless (sucks for classical or Pink Floyd) I personally don't feel like I'm losing anything. The portability, compatibility, and ease of encoding album art into the file are just icing on t he cake.

If I were still ripping, I'd probably rip to FLAC. Not because I think I could hear a difference, I probably couldn't, but because storage is cheap, and I have a 120TB storage server in my basement. It's easier to just go lossless and never worry about it again.

I don't because it is labor intensive. I have a mega collection of MP3's I have ripped in my music library folder, which over the years has become disorganized. Time and time again I've sworn that I am going to go through them all and organize, tag and rename them properly, and I always run out of time less than 5% into the project.

That said, most of my music listening is on Spotify these days, even though I mainly listen to music I already own on CD. I might create a mini subset of a locally ripped music library containing only music that is not available on Spotify. This should be a much more manageable task.

I do go in and set it to the extreme quality setting, again, because I have ample bandwidth (Gigabit FIOS!) and I'd rather just err on the side of caution, more than because I really think it makes an audible difference. The Vorbis codec (which is what Spotify uses) generally does better at the same bitrate than VBR MP3's anyway.

 

[panteragstk]

Given that people have trouble telling the difference between dsped and level matched tweeters and midranges in ABX testing. I feel like power cables is so last decade in the research. I suspect many of us our not nearly as discerning as we like to tell ourselves. I just don't see the point in arguing with the cable crowd anymore.

I agree, but it is amusing to see what BS they'll cook up to justify their asinine purchase.

 

[xreaperx22]

this reminds me of those people that buy exhaust tips and say they got 40 more hp out of it lmao!

 

[MrBoat]

With all of the available information at our fingertips, one could get what amounts to at least the essence of an entry level degree in any field they could possibly dream of. How can someone not know the basic functions of electricity, with one tiny question into google? How can they walk around, otherwise clutching the library of the world in their hands, that they don't even leave behind when they go to poop, not knowing these basic things about what they are interested in?

So, I laugh at people who get taken by the cable dorks and other various forms of snakery. Why? For having to endure the ad stream directed at them, whether it be spam, radio ad, or someone shouting at me in an Aussie/Brit accent on a late night infomercial.

I don't have a good poker face. When someone tells me they spent hundreds of dollars on cables as an audible upgrade, it's right there on my mug, as I look for a believable distraction in which to look away to save from laughing.

 

[Mikado463]

this reminds me of those people that buy exhaust tips and say they got 40 more hp out of it lmao!

yeah right ...........

 

[lovinthehd]

With all of the available information at our fingertips, one could get what amounts to at least the essence of an entry level degree in any field they could possibly dream of. How can someone not know the basic functions of electricity, with one tiny question into google? How can they walk around, otherwise clutching the library of the world in their hands, that they don't even leave behind when they go to poop, not knowing these basic things about what they are interested in?

So, I laugh at people who get taken by the cable dorks and other various forms of snakery. Why? For having to endure the ad stream directed at them, whether it be spam, radio ad, or someone shouting at me in an Aussie/Brit accent on a late night infomercial.

I don't have a good poker face. When someone tells me they spent hundreds of dollars on cables as an audible upgrade, it's right there on my mug, as I look for a believable distraction in which to look away to save from laughing.

Unfortunately tons of audio mags, reviewers, retailers and other forums/blogs say they do matter and do it frequently enough....tell a lie often enough and all that.

 

[mattlach]

With all of the available information at our fingertips, one could get what amounts to at least the essence of an entry level degree in any field they could possibly dream of. How can someone not know the basic functions of electricity, with one tiny question into google? How can they walk around, otherwise clutching the library of the world in their hands, that they don't even leave behind when they go to poop, not knowing these basic things about what they are interested in?

So, I laugh at people who get taken by the cable dorks and other various forms of snakery. Why? For having to endure the ad stream directed at them, whether it be spam, radio ad, or someone shouting at me in an Aussie/Brit accent on a late night infomercial.

I don't have a good poker face. When someone tells me they spent hundreds of dollars on cables as an audible upgrade, it's right there on my mug, as I look for a believable distraction in which to look away to save from laughing.

As a species we are profoundly able to disregard any evidence what so ever if it conflicts with our deeply held beliefs, and causes us cognitive dissonance.

This should be deeply evident from the current state of world politics.

This is why we as a species also invented such things as double blinded studies, as we recognized these flaws in ourselves and needed a method through which to make rational decisions despite them.

Unfortunately, most people fail to realize they themselves (just like all people) have deeply flawed monkey brains, and thus refuse to acknowledge that anything that doesn't jive with their own personal experiences could every be true, even though we know that our own personal experiences are more likely to be influenced by our personal beliefs, rather than the other way around.

Theory of knowledge, and the flaws of the human brain are something that really should be taught to all people from a very young age. Only then do we stand a chance to fight this nonsense.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

this reminds me of those people that buy exhaust tips and say they got 40 more hp out of it lmao!

Don't forget the K&N filter and throttle body spacer!

(Shamefully admit that I fell for all that in my younger more gullible days... it sure sounded good though!)

 

[sterling shoote]

Folks, there's a lot of press today about the resurgence of LP sales, all sorts of ideas about what's going on, but, mostly the thought about LPs sounding better than CDs and thus the LP revival. Some of the internet discussion is amusing, since audio enthusiasts use their soap box to persuade folks to accept a position, agreement or a side in the matter using psychobabble and gobbledygook. Very entertaining when the bottom line is does not matter what the interest in LPs is all about, unless your occupation is marketing.

 

[Dmantis10]

Geez where does one start in this conversation?
Ok I've been in the business for over 20 years and seen all this stuff you guys are talking about.
The bottom line with any cable I don't care what it is. A cable needs to transfer a signal from A to B. Thats it's job and it needs to perform in 100%. So with a digital cable it needs to be able to transfer the entire signal without any loss from the source to the receiver. If that said cable can deliver exactly what it received then there is no more performance to gain. Now with that being said , said cable also needs to keep out outside interference and not take on more then what it was given from the source. So if a cable passes by a leaking electrical cable and picks up signal from the outside, this cable is useless to me.
Before just blanking judging all higher end cables and saying that only Monoprice and Beldon can make good cables is naive. But also with that being said just about all of these so called high end cables sell things that have no performance gains in your system other then pretty looks.
So for me I need cables in my system that are reliable, function and don't disturb others while doing so. I have had Monoprice cable fail especially HDMI, I had them make IR emitter fail and saturate them so the RF remote could not communicate with the RF base station. I removed the Monoprice cables from the system, installed better quality cables for another manufacture and the issue went away. Again cost is of no concern to me I just want them to work and not cause issues. I don't care what name is on the wire. I just want the cable to do it's job right and I can worry about all the other factors that mean something to me.
Power cables I use aftermarket cables in my system so I don't interfere with other cables in my system and I can buy custom lengths so I can wire manage my system the way I like. I have tried these high end cables in my personal systems and systems I have Installed over the decades and I'll say this , in some systems they make a difference when the factory cord is causing issues or is to long or short but isolated testing performance gains there is very little if any IF the correct gauge and shielding is being used. After that it's just eye candy and Im not hear to judge anyone who like eye candy. I like eye candy 2. I'm also not here to judge anyone who thinks these high end cables make their systems better. Maybe they do to them and I'm not gonna call them out on it either way. Sure big fat power cables look awesome. So does big fat Spark Plug wires under a hood.
A read in here people have had all kinds of cable failures with Monstercable products. I have used Monster cables in many systems and never had a single bad cable. I have also used Audioquest, Kimber and Cardas cables and they also work all the time. Now as for Liberty, Beldon, Monoprice, Straight wire, MIT, Snap AV , Tributaries, Transparent etc I have seen plenty of failures. Not to say any cable can't be faulty as they all could if not properly built and tested. I had the most failures with Monoprice and Snap av cables especially HDMI.
HDMI is a moving target and it sucks but it's how it is.
Cables are a part of our systems and I feel you should use whatever you like. If you like Monoprice and have good luck with them then use them. If you want to use the high end companies then use that. Either way they all have a job to do and better do it well or they would be in the trash for me and I'll use something else.

 

[johndyson10]

I'm sure most will get a chuckle out of this read ..........

http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=6236

Your experience is so very sad and all too common. There is a side effect to the damage done by the con-artists selling silly things like jitter free CD players or somehow better cables -- those of us who are STRIVING desperately to do something truly useful sometimes get called 'snake oil' salesmen even when we aren't trying to sell anything.

The signal-to-noise of true attempts at real engineering or real development get diluted by nonsense. Real engineers and real developers cannot easily compete with fraud -- because fraudsters can make incredible claims that people like me cannot achive. I really suck at competing with impossible claims, and I try so very hard (I mean spending 100's or 1000's of hours of my very competent time) to write a 20000 line software program that other people have said that is not possible. SO that puts me in the same APPARENT realm in some peoples view as the true snake oil -- but I am actually doing what I am claiming!!!

Sometimes I just want to give up, but I do have interest from those who REALLY know -- real recording people, and real historical archives, and there might be benefit whereby lots of those old music achives can be more completely and accurately recovered. So -- I have to put aside all of the hurtful noise -- 90% of it comes from honest & generally competent people previously being burnt or simply insulted by true snake oil.

The most (truly sad, probably disgusting thing) is that there are people, who seem intelligent, ENCOURAGING the crooks!!!

Maybe I need to step away from my project for a little while and organize my priorities again. This kind of thing about snake oil is maddening.

John

 

[Dmantis10]

Your experience is so very sad and all too common. There is a side effect to the damage done by the con-artists selling silly things like jitter free CD players or somehow better cables -- those of us who are STRIVING desperately to do something truly useful sometimes get called 'snake oil' salesmen even when we aren't trying to sell anything.

The signal-to-noise of true attempts at real engineering or real development get diluted by nonsense. Real engineers and real developers cannot easily compete with fraud -- because fraudsters can make incredible claims that people like me cannot achive. I really suck at competing with impossible claims, and I try so very hard (I mean spending 100's or 1000's of hours of my very competent time) to write a 20000 line software program that other people have said that is not possible. SO that puts me in the same APPARENT realm in some peoples view as the true snake oil -- but I am actually doing what I am claiming!!!

Sometimes I just want to give up, but I do have interest from those who REALLY know -- real recording people, and real historical archives, and there might be benefit whereby lots of those old music achives can be more completely and accurately recovered. So -- I have to put aside all of the hurtful noise -- 90% of it comes from honest & generally competent people previously being burnt or simply insulted by true snake oil.

The most (truly sad, probably disgusting thing) is that there are people, who seem intelligent, ENCOURAGING the crooks!!!

Maybe I need to step away from my project for a little while and organize my priorities again. This kind of thing about snake oil is maddening.

John

I'm curious what are you making?

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm curious what are you making?

Since I was just looking at them try these threads
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/i-think-that-i-have-found-one-of-the-reasons-for-harsh-sound-in-old-stuff.109361/#post-1249995
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/good-news-new-dolbya-decoder-available.111794/#post-1256571

 

[johndyson10]

I'm curious what are you making?

A true, accurate, high quality (higher than the real HW) and recording professional tested DolbyA decoder. The actual interface with the industry and certain gov't archival organizations is being done by a recording pro who I am not disclosing yet (the pros/industry people who are talking to him obviously know who he is.)

I am necessarily being careful because I have a not-so-good history communicating with people who might disagree or misunderstand, so I am mostly just playing nerd and had previously offered early (and not full quality) demo versions to the consumers. (I don't respond well to my project being called snake-oil, even though I understand why someone might all it so.)
A DolbyA decoder is not defined by equations at all, and is defined by two versions of legacy hardware (one is a diode based gain control, and the other is FET.) The specific configuration is impossible to directly do in software, so it is the job of the programmer/DSP person to properly emulate that relatively ancient design. In the past, there had been failed (or relatively more poor) designs, while even the officially un-relased versions of this decoder are pretty good, and getting better.

If only there was a better specification, it would be easier to design in the more practical (for DSP SW) feedforward design. However, I have been successful at unfolding the design and achiving nearly identical characteristics. IT IS A DAMNED TRICKY thing to correctly do.
There are some real enhancement (WRT the HW) in my design, including improved intermod and of course totally mitigated mixing with the sampling (which isn't really a HW artifact, but is a real problem for all FAST gain control software.) FAST gain control can be very tricky -- but typical SW agc tends to work around the speed issue so as to avoid the mixing with the sampling (aliasing is part of the problem.) My SW has to meet a speed spec, so my SW really has to work with 1 & 2 msec attack times (and aprx 35msec/70msec release times) and not produce intermod components mixing with the sample rate (or wrapping around zero.) The decoder is very successful at doing the high speed attack/decays without ANY audible distortion at the level that even pros can detect. Spectoraphs even show less distortion than a real DolbyA unit.
So -- that is my VERY CHALLENGING, and progressively more and more succesfully implemented project.

Perhaps the biggest bug-a-boo lately is the ability of the decoder to sometimes succesfully noise reduce material that hasn't been DolbyA encoded -- which can sometimes be confusing when I might not know which consumer recording might or might not have DolbyA encoding without being decoded!!! Happily for me, there is enough consumer material that is DolbyA encoded (some of the historical -- crunchy digital sound -- is DolbyA encoding.)

Working hard, and it is actually pretty amazing to listen to recordings that haven't been heard as nicely since the DolbyA tape was created. A DolbyA unit cannot do as well (the decoder is actually clearer, and reproduces vocal choruses with more detail, but not any frequency emphasis!!!)

John

 

[johndyson10]

Since I was just looking at them try these threads
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/i-think-that-i-have-found-one-of-the-reasons-for-harsh-sound-in-old-stuff.109361/#post-1249995
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/good-news-new-dolbya-decoder-available.111794/#post-1256571

I have uploaded some decoded demos -- not tuned perfectly with 100% proper DolbyA levels this time, but is at least an approx example. MP3 does NOT do the decoder justice at all. I don't remember the provenance of the carpenters' demo, but I think that it was HDtracks. This kind of demonstrates that even the premium suppliers can leak DolbyA material!!!

here is the location: https://spaces.hightail.com/space/z3H68lAgmJ

John

 

[Dmantis10]

Interesting, good luck with that. I'm going to check that out.

 

[johndyson10]

Interesting, good luck with that. I'm going to check that out.

Thank you -- the demos aren't tuned perfectly -- I know at least one does have excess noise modulation, so my threshold adjustment (equiv to tone level) is a little off. It is much more difficult to tune the decoder for consumer recordings without tones instead of professional where the settings can be derived from the tone level.

I'll try to correct the threshold settings tonight. It usually takes about 1-2 minutes per album to figure out the correct threshold (if it was all encoed at the same levels), but can sometimes take quite a while -- maybe 10-15 tedious minutes. So, I just used a default setting for now, and then I'll later go through and be more careful.

I have found though that an attempt to decode (as long as the threshold isn't too much in error) usually sounds better than the undecoded DolbyA (often the cause of the traditional harsh, too much HF 'digital' sound).

I have had to hold back the more recent (more complete) decoders because of strategic distribution reasons (trying to develop interest in commercial circles -- being pretty successful, but not 100% yet.) Need to maitain tight control, but deifnitley plan in the fture to provide a -- hopefully free-to-use -- consumer version perhaps missing some important commercial features.

John

 

[Dmantis10]

Pretty cool man. Looking forward.